Blackheart
Active Member
Quite simply yes. That is what your supposed to aim for.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Did Jesus say he was God???
- Thread starter Muffled
- Start date
Quite simply yes. That is what your supposed to aim for.
Blackheart
Active Member
This post is annoying me because people on here seem to be demanding the right to blaspheme. He told us soooooooooooo many times that his deeds are of the father and not of himself but people still want to twist and turn scriptures (that dont confirm this) to say that in some indirect way he actually meant to say that he is God. (maybe u just think that he wasnt clever enough to be able to say the words)
HE DIDNT SAY THAT AND THEREFORE YOU LABEL HIM AS GOD AT YOUR OWN RISK. Dont have the gaul to say that you believe in one God when you are trying to manipulate the scriptures to say that Jesus was the God that preyed to himself.
Believers my ***...Who do you believe in????
HE DIDNT SAY THAT AND THEREFORE YOU LABEL HIM AS GOD AT YOUR OWN RISK. Dont have the gaul to say that you believe in one God when you are trying to manipulate the scriptures to say that Jesus was the God that preyed to himself.
Believers my ***...Who do you believe in????
I know this, but my question was:
Can anyone other than Jesus claim "I and the Father are one"?
The disciples couldn't and didn't.
You might want to check the last couple of pages in this thread.
Disciples didn't have to claim it. Jesus did it for them.
Not my question...
What has this got to do with that?
Anyway here:
From "The Divinity of Christ" By: H.H. Pope Shenouda III:
http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/t...e_shenouda.pdf
With Respect to Him Being the Creator
Without controversy, God is the Creator, and the story of
creation commences with the statement "in the beginning
God created the heavens and the earth" (Gen. 1:1). The
first chapter of Genesis explains how God created all
things. In the book of Isaiah, God says "I am the Lord,
who makes all things, who stretches out heavens all
alone, who spreads abroad the earth by Myself" (Is.
44:24), and "I, the Lord, do all these things" (Is. 45:7).
However, there are other verses in the Holy Bible that
refer to Christ the Lord as the Creator:
1. (Jn. 1:3): St. John the Evangelist says about the
Lord Jesus Christ "All things were made through
Him, and without Him nothing was made that was
made." Here the Evangelist does not only mention
that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Creator but also
that none of the creation was made without him"
(Jn. 1:10).
2. (Heb. 1:2): St. Paul the Apostle says "He made the
worlds."
3. (Col. 1:16): St. Paul also says "For by Him all
things were created that are in heaven and that are
on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or
dominions or principalities or powers. All things
were created through Him and for Him."
4. (1 Cor. 8:6): The Apostle also says " through whom
are all things and through him we live."
The Holy bible mentions miracles performed by the Lord
Jesus Crhist which prove that He is the Creator:
1. The miracle of feeding the five thousand men from
five loaves and two fish (Lk. 9:10-17). In this
miracle, the Lord created matter which had not
existed with which He fed the thousands. What
odds to the power of this miracle is the fact that all
ate and were filled, and twelve baskets were taken
up. From where did all the leftover fragments
come? It was matter newly created by the Lord
Jesus Christ. This great miracle is mentioned by
the four Evangelists.
2. The miracle of feeding the four thousand men from
seven loaves and a few little fish (Matt. 15:32-38).
The disciples took up seven large baskets full of
the fragments that were left over. Here also the
Lord created new matter which had not existed,
and the ability to create is attributed to God alone.
The miracle of changing water into wine in Cana of
Galilee (Jn. 2). This miracle is also an act of creation
because water consists of oxygen and hydrogen only, so
from where did the alcohol and the other constituents of
wine come? The Lord Jesus Christ created all these
elements in this miracle. The power of this miracle is that
it happened by Christs mere inner will, without him doing
any action or blessing or even giving an order to the
water to change into wine. He only said " Fill the water
pots with water. And they filled them up to the brim. And
He said to them, 'Draw some out now' " (Jn.2:7,8). Thus
the water changed to wine merely by His will. He willed to
create the substance of wine and it was created, even
without a command.
(4) Granting sight to the man born blind (Jn.9). Here the
Lord Jesus Christ created eyes which had not existed
before and created them out of mud, as He had created
the first man. Mud, which if put on seeing eyes causes
blindness, was put by the Lord into the sockets of the
blind man, and two eyes were created. What adds to the
power of this miracle is that the Lord ordered the man to
go and wash in the pool of Siloam. Normally, washing
mud dissolves it, but in this miracle, when the man
washed with water, the mud was reinforced in his sockets
as eyes and the water tied them with blood vessels,
muscle and tissue. And the man born blind said to the
Jews: "Since the world began it has been unheard of that
anyone opened the eyes of one who was born blind'
(Jn.9:32).
Here we are faced with an important theological question:
How can Christ be the Creator if creation is attributed to
God alone?
The Lord Jesus Christ was creating with the power of His
Divinity, being the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, that
is, the Reason of God. Who then created all things? Was
it the Lord Jesus Christ or God the Father? God the
Father created the whole universe by the Son; by His
Reason; by His Knowledge; by His Word, that is, by the
Second Person of the Holy Trinity. Hence the Apostle
says: "...through whom also He made the worlds"
(Heb.1:2), that is, by His Reason, by His Wisdom.
What, Jesus saying we are to be one with them isn't good enough? :areyoucra
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
Yea, at least that's what their scriptures say....
John 17:22-23
And the glory which you gave me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one. I in them, and you in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that you have sent me, and loved them, as you loved me.
:sad:
Maybe it is too difficult to understand:
Can anyone other than Jesus claim "I and the Father are one"?
Who else has ever claimed they are one with the Father?
We are discussing the bible here.
waitasec
Veteran Member
so what, you asked:
and if you are not happy with my response, then move on captain...
javajo
Well-Known Member
I believe if Jesus, at the start of his ministry, as soon as he was baptized, went straight to the temple and declared he was God, he would have had no three year ministry. They'd have killed him on the spot. He did tell the woman at the well in Samaria, where no Jewish leaders would enter, that he was the Messiah, early in his ministry. When Peter exclaimed that he was the Messiah, the Son of God, he told his disciples not to reveal it yet. Later he became more open about it as the time for him to give his life approached. The very thing they crucified him for was blashpemy, making himself out to be God. He said he could forgive sins, which they knew only God could do, and under oath he said he was the Son of God. Note, he wasn't just a nice teacher, he was either crazy, lying, or he is the Lord.
If you read the context, you'll see your post is totally off topic.
Yes, check these verses too:
(John 5:17-18 [NIV]) Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working." For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
(John 19:6-7 [NIV]) As soon as the chief priests and their officials saw him, they shouted, "Crucify! Crucify!" But Pilate answered, "You take him and crucify him. As for me, I find no basis for a charge against him."The Jews insisted, "We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God."
(Isaiah 64:8 [NIV]) Yet, O LORD, you are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; we are all the work of your hand.
(Malachi 2:10 [NIV]) Have we not all one Father? Did not one God create us?
So He wasn't the first one to call God His Father (as seen in Isaiah and Malachi). But what they understood is that He meant He was God.
And here is a nice book about the divinity of Jesus, I hope you check:
"The Divinity of Christ" By: H.H. Pope Shenouda III:
http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/t...e_shenouda.pdf
Folks, you all are exercising a subject that can only be understood one way!
Regardless of how many scriptures one throws at it pro or con does not bring the solution any closer to the truth.
If one is to err, err on the side which would do you the most benefit. The side that Jesus is as God.
The creation of mankind via the creation of the first set of parents, be it 100 billion years ago or 7,000 years ago does not matter.
What matters is that a human soul was created.
Understand, from the get go, that such a creation could not go without consequence.
The consequence is part of the designed feature that could not be avoided.
Here is the reason why. A living soul given the enabling to reason/think/judge between to apposing forces is as like a god.
The problem is that this god is in the flesh which is a weaker vessel save the being a spirit.
OK. Since a soul becomes a god when knowledge of good and evil is eaten/digested and exercised, at that point separation takes place. By separation I mean death.
So death by becoming a god is the consequence or, it can be looked at as God sacrificing us in order to create us.
That is the only way God could create souls like unto Himself.
Now, having what I understand to be the basis for creating a living soul, God in actuality was sacrificing us to eternal death.
Now, here me out before you form any conclusions.
Any soul born after the spirit of Adam, meaning being an offspring of Adam's co-creation,that sold is lost (Cast out of the Garden) and therefore unreconciled, by any means humanly possible.
For Jesus to be able to reconcile the world "Back" to the Father Creator, born under those circumstances could not do any more than what you and I could do. (Nothing)
Jesus had to be born not of the spirit of Adam, but of the Spirit of God, yet in the flesh in order to reconcile the world back to the Father Creator without the loss of a single soul.
For He alone was "cast out" instead of our being cast out, thus sacrificing Himself for us, as that is what the Fathers will was.
Liberating us period!
Not to difficult to comprehend if one could just see the reasoning behind it and seeing in scripture the whole picture from start to finish.
There is no argument as to the deity of Jesus, for only a creator could save His own works.
In this case, he choose to save us all.
Now, the beautiful thing about the works of God in Jesus, is that you don't have to believe in Him to be saved, because it is God's gift to us.
The problem is that many of us don't know it, about it or ignorant of any spiritual information that could lead one to Jesus.
How would God justify say, saving only the righteous ones? The unrighteous ones are because they either choose to be or, are ignorant of any information pertaining to God.
Can any of you say you had a choice as to which race, culture, country, language, color and time period in human history to be born it?
The answer is an absolute no! Can then we now justify the righteous only or, can we conclude that God loved all His creation that He justified all of us equally as a free gift to us.
A free gift to be who we are, gods in the flesh and yet without eternal condemnation?
One can with that explanation narrow down our whole existence, no matter who we are, to living as gods with only two sets of instructions, that is if we were to be lead by them, we would do well in this life.
There are only two things in this world that affect us all, and those two are good things and evil things.
That's what makes us as gods!
Yes, gods with powers only to dominate our environment, animals and other souls, yet without power to effect the outcome of the designed works of God.
That power belongs only to "ONE" GOD period.
Jesus, in the power and might as God, the ONE God, born after God's own Spirit is the only God we know under heaven where by we, lost souls, can find the one and only true God in the life and actions of Jesus Christ.
So, choose what you want. But if I was to gamble my life away, I'd err on His side.
What do you have to loose if it were not so? Your lost anyways! But at least, there's the possiblity that Jesus was God in incarnate and you're having a life changing experience, as I have.
Look how long this thread is, I mean, it's so simple that it confounds.
Blessings, AJ
Regardless of how many scriptures one throws at it pro or con does not bring the solution any closer to the truth.
If one is to err, err on the side which would do you the most benefit. The side that Jesus is as God.
The creation of mankind via the creation of the first set of parents, be it 100 billion years ago or 7,000 years ago does not matter.
What matters is that a human soul was created.
Understand, from the get go, that such a creation could not go without consequence.
The consequence is part of the designed feature that could not be avoided.
Here is the reason why. A living soul given the enabling to reason/think/judge between to apposing forces is as like a god.
The problem is that this god is in the flesh which is a weaker vessel save the being a spirit.
OK. Since a soul becomes a god when knowledge of good and evil is eaten/digested and exercised, at that point separation takes place. By separation I mean death.
So death by becoming a god is the consequence or, it can be looked at as God sacrificing us in order to create us.
That is the only way God could create souls like unto Himself.
Now, having what I understand to be the basis for creating a living soul, God in actuality was sacrificing us to eternal death.
Now, here me out before you form any conclusions.
Any soul born after the spirit of Adam, meaning being an offspring of Adam's co-creation,that sold is lost (Cast out of the Garden) and therefore unreconciled, by any means humanly possible.
For Jesus to be able to reconcile the world "Back" to the Father Creator, born under those circumstances could not do any more than what you and I could do. (Nothing)
Jesus had to be born not of the spirit of Adam, but of the Spirit of God, yet in the flesh in order to reconcile the world back to the Father Creator without the loss of a single soul.
For He alone was "cast out" instead of our being cast out, thus sacrificing Himself for us, as that is what the Fathers will was.
Liberating us period!
Not to difficult to comprehend if one could just see the reasoning behind it and seeing in scripture the whole picture from start to finish.
There is no argument as to the deity of Jesus, for only a creator could save His own works.
In this case, he choose to save us all.
Now, the beautiful thing about the works of God in Jesus, is that you don't have to believe in Him to be saved, because it is God's gift to us.
The problem is that many of us don't know it, about it or ignorant of any spiritual information that could lead one to Jesus.
How would God justify say, saving only the righteous ones? The unrighteous ones are because they either choose to be or, are ignorant of any information pertaining to God.
Can any of you say you had a choice as to which race, culture, country, language, color and time period in human history to be born it?
The answer is an absolute no! Can then we now justify the righteous only or, can we conclude that God loved all His creation that He justified all of us equally as a free gift to us.
A free gift to be who we are, gods in the flesh and yet without eternal condemnation?
One can with that explanation narrow down our whole existence, no matter who we are, to living as gods with only two sets of instructions, that is if we were to be lead by them, we would do well in this life.
There are only two things in this world that affect us all, and those two are good things and evil things.
That's what makes us as gods!
Yes, gods with powers only to dominate our environment, animals and other souls, yet without power to effect the outcome of the designed works of God.
That power belongs only to "ONE" GOD period.
Jesus, in the power and might as God, the ONE God, born after God's own Spirit is the only God we know under heaven where by we, lost souls, can find the one and only true God in the life and actions of Jesus Christ.
So, choose what you want. But if I was to gamble my life away, I'd err on His side.
What do you have to loose if it were not so? Your lost anyways! But at least, there's the possiblity that Jesus was God in incarnate and you're having a life changing experience, as I have.
Look how long this thread is, I mean, it's so simple that it confounds.
Blessings, AJ
Last edited:
herushura
Active Member
Jerusalem at the Time of Jesus Christ where Followers of the Roman Religion and the Supreme God was JOVE, also Known as JOVE Pitar (Jove the Father)
For Anyone Preaching a God who is Referred to has "Father", around 1-33AD can only be referring to JOVE (Father God)
Temple Mount(First Temple) Was Built by Herod to Honour JOVE and rebuilt by Hadrian to honour the Same God, whom mutated into YHWH (Its Transliterated Form).
All the Temples of Jerusalem where all Most Likely Roman Temples, that Honoured Jove-Pitar
For Anyone Preaching a God who is Referred to has "Father", around 1-33AD can only be referring to JOVE (Father God)
Temple Mount(First Temple) Was Built by Herod to Honour JOVE and rebuilt by Hadrian to honour the Same God, whom mutated into YHWH (Its Transliterated Form).
All the Temples of Jerusalem where all Most Likely Roman Temples, that Honoured Jove-Pitar
Last edited: