Did Jesus say he was God???

[Shermana]

"G-d is thy throne"

Psalm 45 from where it's quoted is clearly addresssing a king, not G-d.

There is no reason to believe its being used as a Vocative. In fact, Hebrew does not have Vocatives. Any English translation that does is purely interpolated.

 

[javajo]

"G-d is thy throne"

Psalm 45 from where it's quoted is clearly addresssing a king, not G-d.

There is no reason to believe its being used as a Vocative. In fact, Hebrew does not have Vocatives. Any English translation that does is purely interpolated.

How can God be anyone's throne??? Is someone higher than God? That makes no sense in either passage.
Psalm 45:6 says, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever...
And Hebrews 1:8 says, But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever...
That makes sense by itself and in the context of both passages.
In both verses God the Father tells God the Son, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever. In Psalm 45:6 it is absolutely clear that deity is being attributed. The NWT changed it to mean, "God is your throne" on purpose but that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever in either context. The whole reason for Hebrews 1 is to establish the fact that Jesus is God, begotten of the Father, not a created angel, but rather he who made the angels, commands the angels, and is worshiped by the angels as God.

 

[Shermana]

Psalm 18:2 The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I

I suppose it makes no sense why he'd be a fortress or a rock either. Once again, Hebrew does not have a Vocative case.

 

[javajo]

I suppose it makes no sense why he'd be a fortress or a rock either. Once again, Hebrew does not have a Vocative case.

So you think it really says that God is Jesus' throne? That would put Jesus above God.

Hebrews 1:10 speaking of the Son, says, And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

It is quoting Psalm 102:24-25: I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days: thy years are throughout all generations. Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

So, we see the Son, who is God made the heavens and earth.

 

[Shermana]

That would put Jesus above God.

Only in your interpretation, in mine it means that G-d is the source of his power, thus above him.

I do not disagree that the Logos, the first Created Being, was the one who did the actual work of Creation, under the Father's command and direction. Once again, I refer to Philo. However, Hebrews 1:10 does not necessarily refer to the Son. That is an editor's addition. Hebrews 1:8 and 1:10 are quoting vastly different Psalms, with a subject change. That's why 1:8 says "To the son" but 1:10 doesn't, and the editors had to put it in.

This subject and speaker confusion sometimes produces some rather bumbling translations such as:

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
God also said, "Lord, in the beginning you laid the foundation of the earth. With your own hands you made the heavens.

 

[javajo]

I do not disagree that the Logos, the first Created Being, was the one who did the actual work of Creation

The Only Begotten Son of God, the express image of the Father, conceived by the Holy Ghost was not a created being. Thats the whole point of the chapter, he is not a created angel.

Hebrews 1:10 does not necessarily refer to the Son.

Sure it does, the whole passage is about him. Jesus made everything as John 1:3 and Col. 1:16 tell us.

 

[Shermana]

And Colossians 1:15 says he is the "First-made" (translated as "First-born", but more literally is "First-time/thing" of all Creation. Prototokos never is used as "pre-eminent" in the NT, and the word is not even "Firstborn" but "First-time".

 

[javajo]

And Colossians 1:15 says he is the "First-made" (translated as "First-born", but more literally is "First-time/thing" of all Creation. Prototokos never is used as "pre-eminent" in the NT, and the word is not even "Firstborn" but "First-time".

Since he is the ONLY Begotten Son of God, that makes no sense.

 

[idav]

Since he is the ONLY Begotten Son of God, that makes no sense.

You think god procreated an exact copy of himself then called him "son"?

 

[Awoon]

Jesus wasnt even declared Gods' son until the resurrection from the dead. Romans 1:4

So Paul trumps the gospels of the "I AMs," "virgin birth," and anything before his teachings.

 

[Rasheed Saeed]

You think god procreated an exact copy of himself then called him "son"?

DING DING DING DING DING. God sacrificed himself for this messed he created, so therefore by common logic sense. It's our fault.

 

[javajo]

You think god procreated an exact copy of himself then called him "son"?

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: Luke 1

Jesus wasnt even declared Gods' son until the resurrection from the dead. Romans 1:4

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Mathew 16

 

[Awoon]

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Mathew 16
[/quote]


You gotta problem with Paul .:yes:

 

[javajo]

You gotta problem with Paul .:yes:

Paul was just saying the resurrection proved beyond a doubt that Jesus truly is God's Son, no problem. :no:

 

[Awoon]

Paul was just saying the resurrection proved beyond a doubt that Jesus truly is God's Son, no problem. :no:

Nope.:no: Romans 1:4, And declared the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness by the resurrection from the dead.:yes: KJV

Romans 1:4 And who became known as the Son of God with power and with the Holy Spirit, because he arose from the dead, and he is Jesus Christ our Lord. Lamsa

 

[javajo]

Nope.:no: Romans 1:4, And declared the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness by the resurrection from the dead.:yes: KJV

Romans 1:4 And who became known as the Son of God with power and with the Holy Spirit, because he arose from the dead, and he is Jesus Christ our Lord. Lamsa

I see no difference. If he hadn't risen from the dead, he wouldn't be declared the Son of God with power. Peter knew he was because God had shown him, but we know because he rose from the dead.

 

[Awoon]

Double talk. Know ye not Ye are Gods?

 

[javajo]

Speaking of Jesus...

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16

 

[Awoon]

Speaking of Jesus...

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16

Yep Spirit humanizes as Human Beings.

 

[Shermana]

Here is the correct reading of 1 Timothy 3:16.

Bible in Basic English
And without argument, great is the secret of religion: He who was seen in the flesh, who was given God's approval in the spirit, was seen by the angels, of whom the good news was given among the nations, in whom the world had faith, who was taken up in glory.

καὶ ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐστὶν τὸ τῆς εὐσεβείας μυστήριον· ὃς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι, ὤφθη ἀγγέλοις, ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθνεσιν, ἐπιστεύθη ἐν κόσμῳ, ἀνελήμφθη ἐν δόξη.