Did Jesus say he was God???

[Popeyesays]

And if Jesus was a prophet then how did he raise from the dead? And to not believe that Christ rose from the dead, then, brings all of the bible into question? doesn't that make all of our religion false. Either, there is God that sent Jesus to earth to die for the sins of man kind, or God (as in the God of Christianity) is false.

Jesus did not raise from the dead. God did. Jesus did not heal the lame, blind and leper, God did.

All Jesus did was to act as if God's will came first, last and foremost. That alone is an amazing accomplishment.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Popeyesays]

Alright, I had work today but I quoted the gospel of John just before I left. The response to this is that God sent Jesus as his messenger, and so that doesn't make him God; however, John 1:1-14 clearly saying that Jesus Christ was not only the message bearer but also the message sender.

" In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God". It is clear that God in this passage is " the Word", It's in black and white. Then in verse 14 it continues to say," And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, ( and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the father [Jesus],) full of grace and truth. Clearly Jesus is the only begotten of the father; and it says that the only begotten was the Word from verse one. Which created the world. So either a prophet created the world of Jesus IS the Son Of God.

I can tackle this one:
1) John is speaking not Jesus. John's opinion is worth as much as mine.
2) The "Word" is "BE!" That word brought all of Creation into being. So all of creation is the "Word".
3) All of Creeation is a Token of God/ It is the onlyh way we can behold God, other than the Traces of His Presence we can never comprehen His presence.

Jesus denies divinity at every opportunity. In his very own words.

Regards,
Scott

 

[logician]

Jesus never existed, just a revival of preexistent man-god myths in a new flavor.

 

[SonOfNun]

Your right.... God did rise from the dead, Jesus IS God. John 20: 16-17, Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him Rabboni; which is to say Master. Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my father: But go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God.

Clearly this is Jesus the same Jesus that died on the cross that Mary is speaking to. And if you are saying that God used him to destroy sin for him, and that Jesus as a man was sinless, then that in and of its self goes against the bible, " no MAN is righteous , no not one".

 

[Popeyesays]

Jesus never existed, just a revival of preexistent man-god myths in a new flavor.

And we should believe this because . . . . . ?

 

[SonOfNun]

Jesus never existed, just a revival of preexistent man-god myths in a new flavor.

To say that Jesus never existed is to say that Rome never existed or that there is no such thing as Greece. There is more historical evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ then there is for the existence of Plato.

The difference between the Greek "god-men" like Achilles, Hercules, and Jesus is that they had sin, they were given human faults, Jesus was the perfect Son Of God. Fictional Greek figures also didn't have prophets predicting when they were going to enter the earth hundreds of years before they came to be.

 

[SonOfNun]

And we should believe this because . . . . . ?

question, are you coming with the view that the bible is true or not? because all this time I have been under the assumption that the debate was not weather Christianity was false or not, but weather Jesus was God. Really they are the same question but some people don't seem to think that.

 

[SonOfNun]

I can tackle this one:
1) John is speaking not Jesus. John's opinion is worth as much as mine.
2) The "Word" is "BE!" That word brought all of Creation into being. So all of creation is the "Word".
3) All of Creeation is a Token of God/ It is the onlyh way we can behold God, other than the Traces of His Presence we can never comprehen His presence.

Jesus denies divinity at every opportunity. In his very own words.

The Word is no more God then a building is its builder. God is being called the Word here. Its in black and white. " And the Word WAS God".

 

[neves]

I am afraid that Jesus said he was the Son of God:

Luk 22:70 Then they all said, "Are You then the Son of God?" So He said to them, "You rightly say that I am."

There are other verses that say He was the Son of God:
Mat 8:28 And when He came to the other side, to the region of the Gergesenes, there met Him two demon-possessed men, coming out of the tombs; exceedingly violent, so that no one was able to pass by that way.
Mat 8:29 And suddenly they cried out, saying, "What have we to do with You, Jesus, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?"

Mat 16:15 He said to them, "But who do you pronounce Me to be?"
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Mat 16:17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

Okay just a few points to ponder and or clarify…


You quoted:

“Luk 22:70 Then they all said, "Are You then the Son of God?" So He said to them, "You rightly say that I am."


Okay I used the King James Version ( which most on here says is a good translation) … It says…


Luke 22 (Note: not whole passage, just 5 lines before and after relative verse)


“65And many other things blasphemously spake they against him.
66And as soon as it was day, the elders of the people and the chief priests and the scribes came together, and led him into their council, saying,
67Art thou the Christ? tell us. And he said unto them, If I tell you, ye will not believe:
68And if I also ask you, ye will not answer me, nor let me go.
69Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.
70Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.
71And they said, What need we any further witness? for we ourselves have heard of his own mouth.”


Clearly in the KJV… Jesus does not acknowledge what the people claimed… in fact it seems more like he does not accept what the people said… which version are we to believe as the truth here…


Then your other quote says:

"Mat 8:28 And when He came to the other side, to the region of the Gergesenes, there met Him two demon-possessed men, coming out of the tombs; exceedingly violent, so that no one was able to pass by that way.
Mat 8:29 And suddenly they cried out, saying, "What have we to do with You, Jesus, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?"


Can we take what these demonic men said to be the truth...It is more likely they would say something false just to mislead whoever was listening to them…


And you last quote said:

"Mat 16:15 He said to them, "But who do you pronounce Me to be?"
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Mat 16:17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven”


What about this other account in Luke 9 from the KJV… which is contradictory to Matthew 16…


Luke 9 (Note: not whole passage, just 5 lines before and after relative verses)

"15And they did so, and made them all sit down.
16Then he took the five loaves and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed them, and brake, and gave to the disciples to set before the multitude.
17And they did eat, and were all filled: and there was taken up of fragments that remained to them twelve baskets.
18And it came to pass, as he was alone praying, his disciples were with him: and he asked them, saying, Whom say the people that I am?
19They answering said, John the Baptist; but some say, Elias; and others say, that one of the old prophets is risen again.
20He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God.
21And he straitly charged them, and commanded them to tell no man that thing;
22Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.
23And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
24For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.
25For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?
26For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels."


Here Jesus says out right not to say such a thing...which passage can we take as saying the truth?

 

[Alan Young]

God is not a man he is far grater than a man therefore he would have no need to take human form to pass a message he would instead use his servents the humans to do his bidding. Jesus was a prophet, he was 100% human and 100% conected with god in his harte and in his mind. Jesus was given grate gifts from god, to understand these gifts and miricals that jesus proformed in his time. So that we can understand the power of god and to understand this kind of power, is to understand that god has no need to do these tasks personelly which jesus proformed at gods will.

Jesus's other task was to pass a very important message,that to have 100% faith in god the farther is to hold it in you harte and mind no matter what anyone tells you and hold peace in you harte even if the ones who persecute you crucify you.

 

[Popeyesays]

The Word is no more God then a building is its builder. God is being called the Word here. Its in black and white. " And the Word WAS God".

God existed. He needed nothing. The only thing He felt was the desire to create. That desire was "The Word". He uttered "Be!" and it was.

Creation is the "Word Made Flesh". It is clear and obvious.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Willamena]

Is Jesus God in the flesh?

yeah; but we all are, so it's no big deal.

 

[SonOfNun]

Jesus does indeed say that he is God. Matthew 4:7," Then Jesus said unto him, It is written again, thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

 

[SonOfNun]

God existed. He needed nothing. The only thing He felt was the desire to create. That desire was "The Word". He uttered "Be!" and it was.

Creation is the "Word Made Flesh". It is clear and obvious.

The bible never says this. It does in fact say that God is love. And this is why he could not just save everyone. because he gave them the choice, It was a part of love. And to take away there choice would go against who He is. God took some of us back by opening our eyes to the truth though.

The Word is not creation. The Word is Jesus Christ. Saying that God is Jesus Christ and that Jesus Christ is God. And that Jesus Christ being God created the earth.

 

[Popeyesays]

Jesus does indeed say that he is God. Matthew 4:7," Then Jesus said unto him, It is written again, thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Which means no more than the "devil" cannot tempt the will of God, Jesus was the tool of the will of God and therefore beyond temptation.

Regards,
Scott

 

[SonOfNun]

God existed. He needed nothing. The only thing He felt was the desire to create. That desire was "The Word". He uttered "Be!" and it was.

Creation is the "Word Made Flesh". It is clear and obvious.

The bible never says this. It does in fact say that God is love. And this is why he could not just save everyone. because he gave them the choice, It was a part of love. And to take away there choice would go against who He is. God took some of us back by opening our eyes to the truth though.

The Word is not creation. The Word is Jesus Christ. Saying that God is Jesus Christ and that Jesus Christ is God. And that Jesus Christ being God created the earth.

 

[Popeyesays]

The bible never says this. It does in fact say that God is love. And this is why he could not just save everyone. because he gave them the choice, It was a part of love. And to take away there choice would go against who He is. God took some of us back by opening our eyes to the truth though.

The Word is not creation. The Word is Jesus Christ. Saying that God is Jesus Christ and that Jesus Christ is God. And that Jesus Christ being God created the earth.

Your interpretation is valid for you. I don't see the truth of it.

Regards.
Scott

 

[Peace4all]

Most Christians believe that Jesus was 100% man and 100% God. Oh, and Kadzbiz, this is not a court.

First off I'm not trying to say Christianity is a bogus religion, but this is really confusing. Some concepts of all religions are hard to accept unless mom and dad have been pounding the idea in your brain all your life; this may well be one of those concepts. See the problem to a non-Christian like me is that there can't be man and him be a god at the same time. I can't seem to understand that. :banghead:

Man is not perfect. Man does mistakes, man goes to the bathroom (sometimes it' may be constipation or diarrhea), and is nowhere even remotely half-way close to perfect. The idea that man can be god- at least in Islam- is very super degrading. Just to give you and idea about how Muslims think of this concept:
They say: "((Allah)) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous! At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin, That they should invoke a son for ((Allah)) Most Gracious. For it is not consonant with the majesty of ((Allah)) Most Gracious that He should beget a son. (Maryam 88-92)

There is probably no other worse way to insult god. God is perfect in away that is beyond our imagination (that’s important to understand). All throughout time, people have tried to simplify god so other people can understand him. Some reduced him to the form of man, and others went as far as reducing him to idols. The problem is, when you try to simplify god you reduce his attributes and him to dust. If god has something close to human characteristics then he is not worthy of my worship.

 

[SonOfNun]

If you are not a Christian then I doubt it does. It is only through the Holy Spirit that we can fully understand who Jesus and God is. Those who have not called on the name of Jesus Christ to be saved have there eyes closed. I am not meaning to sound demeaning, but it is the truth, I am no better then you. If it were not for the Holy Spirit I doubt I would believe in God at all

 

[Peace4all]

If you are not a Christian then I doubt it does. It is only through the Holy Spirit that we can fully understand who Jesus and God is. Those who have not called on the name of Jesus Christ to be saved have there eyes closed. I am not meaning to sound demeaning, but it is the truth, I am no better then you. If it were not for the Holy Spirit I doubt I would believe in God at all

Oh, I don't mean to sound demeaning either but it looks like you're the one that needs to open your eyes and use your common sense. ​