Did Jesus say he was God???

[SonOfNun]

Jesus came to the earth to share the good news with the Jews. to help them to understand, to free them from there sin, to be the perfect lamb, but they rejected him. This is not to say that Jesus didn't come to save the gentiles. Caleb in the Old Testament was not a Jew but he was saved through his faith. It is as Jesus said, he came first to the Jews and then to the Gentiles. Jesus also said if you had known my father you would have known me. He is God, He was bringing to pass all that God had told the prophets in the Old Testament. The Jews could not see past the occupation of the Romans. They figured that God was coming to save them from the romans when Indeed he was coming to save them from their sin.

I will admit Jesus did not outright say that he was God. He did not say that he was not God either. He instead kept it hidden. Its almost as if he wanted them to find out on their own. Salvation comes through faith, and again it is like he had said, if you knew my father you would have known me. In all of the accounts of people being saved or "made whole", it was not until they with there mouths admitted that he was God that they were saved. It was always, " your faith has made you free".

 

[Peace4all]

I will admit Jesus did not outright say that he was God. He did not say that he was not God either. He instead kept it hidden. Its almost as if he wanted them to find out on their own. Salvation comes through faith, and again it is like he had said, if you knew my father you would have known me. In all of the accounts of people being saved or "made whole", it was not until they with there mouths admitted that he was God that they were saved. It was always, " your faith has made you free".

The problem is that whether jesus is god or not is a very important fundamental part of any monotheistic faith. Leaving an important part like that out contributes to alot of confusion and fighting. Anyhow, like i what i said 2 posts ago , it just doesn't make sense that jesus is god in flesh.

 

[SonOfNun]

First off I'm not trying to say Christianity is a bogus religion, but this is really confusing. Some concepts of all religions are hard to accept unless mom and dad have been pounding the idea in your brain all your life; this may well be one of those concepts. See the problem to a non-Christian like me is that there can't be man and him be a god at the same time. I can't seem to understand that. :banghead:

Man is not perfect. Man does mistakes, man goes to the bathroom (sometimes it' may be constipation or diarrhea), and is nowhere even remotely half-way close to perfect. The idea that man can be god- at least in Islam- is very super degrading. Just to give you and idea about how Muslims think of this concept:
They say: "((Allah)) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous! At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin, That they should invoke a son for ((Allah)) Most Gracious. For it is not consonant with the majesty of ((Allah)) Most Gracious that He should beget a son. (Maryam 88-92)

There is probably no other worse way to insult god. God is perfect in away that is beyond our imagination (that’s important to understand). All throughout time, people have tried to simplify god so other people can understand him. Some reduced him to the form of man, and others went as far as reducing him to idols. The problem is, when you try to simplify god you reduce his attributes and him to dust. If god has something close to human characteristics then he is not worthy of my worship.

God is all knowing, and all loving. God new what was going to happen before time began. Time is nothing to him, he invented it. God created the earth knowing that Adam would sin. It was Adams choice, and we have the same choice. Every day we choose weather or not we are going to follow God. We being sin natured and blinded have chosen to follow after the vain things in this world. God created the earth so that he could be worshiped, that is why we are created. That is also why humans have false gods. It is in our nature to worship. Even atheists worship gods, gods of science and of knowledge.
When sin entered the world our eyes were opened to things we never imagined, that there might be another reality other then God himself. This was our downfall. And God being perfect and full of love could chose not to take this choice away from us, it was our choice. God however opened the eyes of a few, even though we rejected him he took us back. To keep us from an eternity of sin. He did this through Jesus. Jesus being perfect and blameless taking on all the wrath of God, died, was buried and rose again. Saving those who would call on his name.

 

[SonOfNun]

Jesus Being God did no sin. He was blameless.. He was man in the sense that he in all ways tempted as we are, and struggled as every man struggled. But God in the sense that he did not give into these temptations. Jesus was not corrupted by years and years of sin and decay. When Adam was made all he could see was the truth. That is why Jesus is called the second Adam. God however being perfect could not sin. So it was Gods holiness versus the sin of man. And God being perfect won that battle.

 

[Willamena]

The problem is that whether jesus is god or not is a very important fundamental part of any monotheistic faith. Leaving an important part like that out contributes to alot of confusion and fighting. Anyhow, like i what i said 2 posts ago , it just doesn't make sense that jesus is god in flesh.

Unless you believe entirely symbolically that we are all Jesus as God in the Flesh --then it becomes important.

But no matter.

 

[The Seeker]

I've read all of these posts and I'm thoroughly confused. Was Jesus God? Was he the son of God. Was he both??? Why didn't Jesus just come out and say who he was? Why play games? Why do Christians have to "seek" God and the truth? How does one know when he has found God? It seems everybody has a different point of view. This is my frustration with organized religion, there are no clear cut answers only different points of view.

 

[lunamoth]

I've read all of these posts and I'm thoroughly confused. Was Jesus God? Was he the son of God. Was he both??? Why didn't Jesus just come out and say who he was? Why play games? Why do Christians have to "seek" God and the truth? How does one know when he has found God? It seems everybody has a different point of view. This is my frustration with organized religion, there are no clear cut answers only different points of view.

I think he did tell them.

22Then came the Feast of Dedication[b] at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23and Jesus was in the temple area walking in Solomon's Colonnade. 24The Jews gathered around him, saying, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ,[c] tell us plainly."
25Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[d]; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one." 31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" 33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." 34Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'[e]? 35If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? 37Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. 38But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father." 39Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

On another note, how likely would you be to believe someone if they went around saying "I am God?" The Gospels are the testimony of the early Christian community who knew Jesus and concluded He was worthy of worship, and the only one worthy of worship is God. The idea of the Trinity came out of worship, rather than out of intellectual noodling.

2 c,
luna

 

[SonOfNun]

I understand your frustration. I have to admit I am frustrated at times as well. You really have to have the Holy Spirit to understand the bible. Without the Holy Spirit truth is hidden.

 

[SonOfNun]

Thank You...

 

[The Seeker]

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Seeker
I've read all of these posts and I'm thoroughly confused. Was Jesus God? Was he the son of God. Was he both??? Why didn't Jesus just come out and say who he was? Why play games? Why do Christians have to "seek" God and the truth? How does one know when he has found God? It seems everybody has a different point of view. This is my frustration with organized religion, there are no clear cut answers only different points of view.

I think he did tell them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by John 10
22Then came the Feast of Dedication[b] at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23and Jesus was in the temple area walking in Solomon's Colonnade. 24The Jews gathered around him, saying, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ,[c] tell us plainly."
25Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[d]; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one." 31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" 33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." 34Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'[e]? 35If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? 37Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. 38But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father." 39Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.



On another note, how likely would you be to believe someone if they went around saying "I am God?" The Gospels are the testimony of the early Christian community who knew Jesus and concluded He was worthy of worship, and the only one worthy of worship is God. The idea of the Trinity came out of worship, rather than out of intellectual noodling.

2 c,
luna

I can gather that Jesus was God's son from these passages. So, he's not God in the flesh.

Also, if I saw a man walk on water, heal the blind and bring the dead back to life, I would have no problem believing him if he said that he was the son of God. I can't imagine that most people, even atheist, would deny God after seeing such miracles.

 

[lunamoth]

I can gather that Jesus was God's son from these passages. So, he's not God in the flesh.

The great thing is we each get to decide for ourselves.

Also, if I saw a man walk on water, heal the blind and bring the dead back to life, I would have no problem believing him if he said that he was the son of God. I can't imagine that most people, even atheist, would deny God after seeing such miracles.

Personally I can't wrap my brain around 100% God, 100% man. I can't wrap my brain around One God in a Trinity of three Persons. Yet, I find meaning in both of these expressions of God.

 

[The Seeker]

Personally I can't wrap my brain around 100% God, 100% man. I can't wrap my brain around One God in a Trinity of three Persons. Yet, I find meaning in both of these expressions of God.

Nor could I. To each his own.

 

[Katzpur]

I can gather that Jesus was God's son from these passages. So, he's not God in the flesh.

God's Son is God. Jesus isn't "God the Father" in the flesh, but that's not the same thing as saying He's not divine. How could God's own Son be anything other than divine?

 

[ChristineES]

I changed my mind about not responding to this thread. (that is a woman's perogative, lol).

One reason I can't believe that Jesus is only the Son of God is because there is only one God in Christianity, Jusaism, and Islam (they are all the same God, in fact. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob). If a man fathers a child, then the child will be human, but since God has a Son, then said Son would be God. But if Jesus was just a Son of God, then there would be more than one God. I don't worship more than one God.
I believe that He said He was God. That is my faith and what I believe in. That is the answer I get when I read the Gospels.

It is a hard concept to believe in if you don't have the faith to back it up.

 

[Katzpur]

If a man fathers a child, then the child will be human, but since God has a Son, then said Son would be God.

I agree completely with this statement.

But if Jesus was just a Son of God, then there would be more than one God. I don't worship more than one God.

So are you saying that the Father is the Son and the Son is the Father? I'm understanding this to mean that you don't believe that God the Father was literally Jesus' Father. Is that right?

 

[ChristineES]

So are you saying that the Father is the Son and the Son is the Father? I'm understanding this to mean that you don't believe that God the Father was literally Jesus' Father. Is that right?

Not exactly. I do believe Jesus was God's son and God Himself, yet Jesus was a man while He dwelled on earth. A sinless man, but a man: He ate, drank, cried, became angry, felt sympathy, and bled. He was not in His glorious state while he was on earth- that is what I mean by "100% man". He gave up His glory to come to earth to dwell among the men and women who worshipped Him. That is why I believe he always said "I do as My Father does". So although He was God and God's Son, he was totally human while He dwelled on earth.

 

[Katzpur]

Not exactly. I do believe Jesus was God's son and God Himself, yet Jesus was a man while He dwelled on earth. A sinless man, but a man: He ate, drank, cried, became angry, felt sympathy, and bled. He was not in His glorious state while he was on earth- that is what I mean by "100% man". He gave up His glory to come to earth to dwell among the men and women who worshipped Him. That is why I believe he always said "I do as My Father does". So although He was God and God's Son, he was totally human while He dwelled on earth.

Gotcha. That pretty much sums up my belief, too.

 

[lew0049]

Great references in the Bible Muffled...
And to Popeyesays - how could you possible limit the abilities of the creator... outside of my personnal beliefs, your comments are completely flawed b/c you are saying what that it is impossible for the creator to become a man - to present some form of evidence to His creation in the form of man... to believe what you are saying 100% limits the powers of the creator.

 

[cardero]

I have been asked to produce evidence of the divinity of Jesus. This is not just good evidence, it is overwhelming evidence.


Words of Jesus

John 14:9 ... he that hath seen me hath seen the Father
John 14:10 ... the words that I say unto you , I speak not from myself but from the Father abiding in Me doeth His works
John 14:11 ... I am in the Father and the Father in Me
John 10:30 I and My Father are one
John 10:33 ... thou being a man makest Thyself God
John 8:58 Jesus said ... before Abraham was born, Jah (Jah is the short form of Jeshovah)
John 8:59 They took up stones therefore to cast at Him
Mark 2:5 and Jesus seeing their faith saith ... thy sins are forgiven
Mark 2:7 ... who can forgive sins but one, even God
Mark 10:17 ... good teacher Mark 10:18 Why callest Me good? None is good save one, even God John 10:11 I am the good shepherd
Mat. 1:21 ... call his name Jesus; for it is He that shall save his people from their sins
Prophecies of the Messiah Jesus
Isa. 45:21 ... I, Jehovah? and there is no God else besides Me a just God and savior, there is none besides Me
Isa. 7:14 ... a sign: behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call His name Immanuel (God with us)
Isa 9:6 a son is given, and the government shall be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called: Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace

Attributes of God
Omnipresence
John 1:46 Nathaniel saith unto Him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him Before Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
John 1:49 Nathaniel answered him, Rabbi thou art the Son of God; thou art King of Israel.
John 1:50 Jesus answered ... thou shalt see greater things than these
Omniscience
Luke 6:8 ...the Pharisees watched Him ... that they might find how to accuse him but He knew their thoughts
John 4:17 ... Thou sayest well, I have no husband
John 4:18 for thou hast had five husbands and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband
Omnipotence
Mark 4:41 ... Who then is this, that even the wind and the sea obey Him?

(He turned water into wine, multiplied bread, healed the sick and the blind, raised a man who was dead for four days)
Authority
Luke 4:36 ... for with authority and power He commandeth the unclean spirits and they come out
Mat 7:29 for He taught them as one having authority
Mat 28:18 ... Jesus ...spake... saying, all authority hath been given unto Me in heaven and on earth
The "I am" statements of Jesus
John 8:12 ... I am the light of the world
John 14:6 ... I am the way, the truth and the life
John 6:35 ... I am the bread of life
John 10:9 I am the door, by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved
John 11:25 ... I am the resurrection and the life
John 15:1 I am the true vine (this is a reference to Jesus being the Paraclete)

Muffled I found this scripture buried at the bottom of this list's foundation.

Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

What did you want me to do with it?

 

[Popeyesays]

Great references in the Bible Muffled...
And to Popeyesays - how could you possible limit the abilities of the creator... outside of my personnal beliefs, your comments are completely flawed b/c you are saying what that it is impossible for the creator to become a man - to present some form of evidence to His creation in the form of man... to believe what you are saying 100% limits the powers of the creator.

When one makes a statue of Praxiteles, can the statue sculpt?

Over and over the Bible tells us that God is Spirit.

Regards,
Scott