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Did Jesus say he was God???

Muffled

Jesus in me
now i want you to read each one again and actually show where jesus says he is God being called God does not mean that you are God, and saying I am the light,i am the way,i am the bread,i am the door,i am the reserrection and the vine still does not say that I am God

You have not read that Jehovah says that He is a jealous God? How then is He going to call Jesus God if He is not? He would be acting contrary to His nature and setting up an alternative to Himself. He would never do that.

What is this claim? I would grant you that a literal light is not God since He created it: "Let there be light and there was." However light is sometimes used as a metaphor for understanding. As such Jesus is making the claim to be the understanding of all things and that speaks of the omniscience of God.

What is this claim? A way can be a path or it can be exemplary behavior. Claiming to be the originator of good behavior is antother way for Jesus to say He is good and therfore God.

There is a double intendre in this statement because the most understood significance of bread is a life sustaining substance but Jesus said "man does not live by bread alone but by every Word from the mouth of God. In this sense it coincides with John's statement that Jesus is the Word (of God) and is evidence of His divinity because it is not a word heard but a word proceeding from Him.

The claim here is to final authority which rests in God's hands. Jesus decides who will enter Heaven and who will not.

These two address the omnipotence of God. Nothing happens without His power to make it happen or allow it to happen.
 

Ephratah7

~New Member~
Not just "Son of God" but also"Son of man". Well, I don't like to question His Divinity. All the miracles he showed are enough for me to believe. If it is impossible with man, well, with God nothing is impossible.
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
Not just "Son of God" but also"Son of man". Well, I don't like to question His Divinity. All the miracles he showed are enough for me to believe. If it is impossible with man, well, with God nothing is impossible.

I do not question His divinity either. However, "Hear O Israel! THe Lord thy God is ONE!" is the truism of the nature of God. God cannot be multiplied or divided He IS.

Regards,
Scott
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
It's an analogy which sophist's used as well I suppose... :rolleyes: Never-the-less, what about the analogy do you not understand?

I understand that it is nonsense. Comparing God to an egg gains what, exactly?

God is without comparison, beyond our complete understanding, Single and Mysterious. You want to crack Him and cook Him for breakfast?

ou might as well say God is a sardine, or a walnut, or loose-pin hinge. As an analogy it is nonsensical.

Regards,

Scott
 

Jeremy Mason

Well-Known Member
I understand that it is nonsense. Comparing God to an egg gains what, exactly?

God is without comparison, beyond our complete understanding, Single and Mysterious. You want to crack Him and cook Him for breakfast?

ou might as well say God is a sardine, or a walnut, or loose-pin hinge. As an analogy it is nonsensical.

Regards,

Scott

Ok scott-- I've tried the old fashion way of showing you (in Scripture) where Jesus said he was God several times in the past. Obviously analogies are off the list of ways to communicate w/ you. What about parables?
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
Ok scott-- I've tried the old fashion way of showing you (in Scripture) where Jesus said he was God several times in the past. Obviously analogies are off the list of ways to communicate w/ you. What about parables?

I like parables just fione, thank you. Fire when ready!

Regards,
Scott
 

UnityNow101

Well-Known Member
Even if, and that is a huge if, Jesus said that he was indeed God Almighty, would that make it so? Does it matter whether he said this or not? In my opinion, Jesus never stated that he was God and said that he had a God. But does any of it matter? If he said that he was God, is there evidence now to support that? Absolutely not. It is mere opinion and belief. The only thing that's different is many peoples perception of God...Instead of an unknown entity which cannot even begin to be understood, we have a god which can be confined to a certain time period, a certain race/nationality. It is hard for some people to grasp the unknown, therefore they hold onto what they feel that they understand. That a man was God, only to disappear and be as it was before the arrival of that man.
 

Jeremy Mason

Well-Known Member
I like parables just fione, thank you. Fire when ready!

Regards,
Scott

The Parable of the Sower

Mark 4:1-20
1Again Jesus began to teach by the lake. The crowd that gathered around him was so large that he got into a boat and sat in it out on the lake, while all the people were along the shore at the water's edge. 2He taught them many things by parables, and in his teaching said: 3"Listen! A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants, so that they did not bear grain. 8Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up, grew and produced a crop, multiplying thirty, sixty, or even a hundred times." 9Then Jesus said, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."
10When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. 11He told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12so that,
" 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'[a]"
13Then Jesus said to them, "Don't you understand this parable? How then will you understand any parable? 14The farmer sows the word. 15Some people are like seed along the path, where the word is sown. As soon as they hear it, Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them. 16Others, like seed sown on rocky places, hear the word and at once receive it with joy. 17But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 18Still others, like seed sown among thorns, hear the word; 19but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful. 20Others, like seed sown on good soil, hear the word, accept it, and produce a crop—thirty, sixty or even a hundred times what was sown."

Luke 8:11-15 (NIV)

11"This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. 12Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. 14The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life's worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. 15But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.

John 1

The Word Became Flesh

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.



The Word is Jesus who was with God the Father and the Word/Jesus was/is God.
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
Here is the section in question in a more literal translation (oung's Literal Translation):

"
John 1


1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;
2this one was in the beginning with God;
3all things through him did happen, and without him happened not even one thing that hath happeJohn 1


1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;
2this one was in the beginning with God;
3all things through him did happen, and without him happened not even one thing that hath happened.
4In him was life, and the life was the light of men, 5and the light in the darkness did shine, and the darkness did not perceive it. ned.

4In him was life, and the life was the light of men, 5and the light in the darkness did shine, and the darkness did not perceive it.

Note the pronoun before the phrase in red. This is a clear reference to GOD, not the Word.

Not that ou understand the meaning of "the Word" much at all.

Regards,
Scott
 

kai

ragamuffin
jeremy mason, your arguments in favour of your position are worthy but pointless with someone who worships and percieves their god in such a different manner to you that i prefer to beleive they are no longer even worshiping the same god.
to explain the nature of the christian god to an islamic based faith is pointless, the nature of Allah is not the nature of the christian god.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
now i want you to read each one again and actually show where jesus says he is God... the high priest asked him by the living God, TEll us are you the son of living God and jesus answered him you say i am, perfect time for him to add in i am the son of God amongst all those i am's or when plainly asked still no to the point answer or statement saying "I am the son of God or that he is God, these are all overwhelming assumptions that when truly examined one has to agree that all these instances theres room for questioning and even more for doubt, even jesus said it himself if any man do his will , he will know if he speaks of God or himself ,even that verse lets you know that he is not God and that theres a chance that he is speaking of himself in which case one would have to ask if he were speaking of himself theres a chance hes not with God or for God and if hes for himself (mmmm.... wonder who fits that description) think old, what was and still is i might add Gods will ?its the Law, please read psalm 1:1-6 and psalm 119 all ,do these words sound as if they have an experation date if you think that then read malachi chapters 3 & 4 all, see where it reads God saying :I change not and last but not least remember ye the law of moses with the statutes and judgements , REMEMBER the LAW , why such a reminder right before this major change think .
christians are under grace not under the Laws of God they pretend that they follow the ten commandments, but do they the first four commandments are totally ignored ,did God or jesus say I am the Lord thy God that brought you out of the land of egypt, out of the house of bondage. i believe the verse starts out with and God spake all these words, next thou shalt make no graven image, lets just look around lets say um your house how many pictures or little figurines (idols) do you see and even if you dont bow down to it or them like millions do, your idol is set up in your heart< because if someone can show you an image and you at the least say thats supposed to be jesus the idol of the world is within,and if you read on in Ex. 20: 5 & 6 you will without a doubt read that God will show mercy unto thousands of generations that loves him and keeps his commandments, ( did God give the law just to take it back one day?, see how when God speaks in this book theres no mistaken or possible room for doubt, I am GOD , My commandments) next theres the name in vain, in this case it means to make void , how many of you have even thought to ask how come jesus speaks of his fathers name, even reveals it to the disciples but not once is spoken by him, even the name jehovah( not the name either) not written in the gospels, what is his fathers name? and last but not least< remember the sabbath day, to keep it Holy six days to work one to rest. where is your day of rest even if you say sunday is it thats not the seventh day of the week matt. 28:1 reads that at the end of the sabbath toward the first day of the week<the two maryswent to the sepulchre, so you are not observing Gods sabbath even if you just had the day wrong you still dont rest its another day of labor and folly cooking, laundry even leaving the house is wrong its supposed to be a day of meditation and reflection and most important REST . if you dont think its important just consider this ,it finished creation. these 4 are not even listed in the new test. yet most of you just learned that still this question has not been answered difinitively if anything it should have shadows of at least a double take by those who are not closed minded or think that if they doubt in any way they will go to hell but remember even jesus says you can blaspheme the name of the son of man and be forgiven but not the Holy spirit( by the way is he the son of God or the son of man? God is not the author of confusion) now if you can with knowledge explain these things away someone anyone hit me email pm whatever school of show and prove any verse i mentioned that you dont know ask. now heres my question of the ages ,this, i dont even think any of you have even seen or gave a second thought to ,who is the destroyer of the gentiles mentioned in jer.4:7 riddle me that? anyone!

If you have doubts they are in your own mind not in the text. Jesus called Himself God not the Son of God. He does not appear to like the appellation and in the Qu'ran makes a point of it that God does not have sons (The way a human does). There is not a little God Jr. running around the universe. I never said so and Jesus doesn't say so either.
In a trial (even a mock trial such as the Pharisees held) it is best to say nothing and answer the questions with exactitude. Jesus identifies the source of the "son of God" appellation as coming from man, in this case His questioners. He doesn't say they are wrong to say it but from God's point of view He is not a son of God but He is God. It is easy to misconstrue the statements by Jesus calling God Father but Jesus puts it into perspective by saying "I and my Father are one."

On the contrary. Jesus is pointing out that there are those who pretend to speak for God but aren't. He is clarifying for them how they can tell that the will of Jesus is the will of God and the words of Jesus are the words of God.

This would be the case if God had died. We serve a living God who has a living will and law. God is eternal but laws are temporal. When you make the Law a substitute for God you dishonor God. And it is even worse than that because over the years men put their own spin on the law so that it isn't even what God intended anymore and sometimes is the very opposite of what He intended. Jesus points this out quite clearly. You have a choice between a living Savior and a dead law. Does that mean the law is useless? By no means! However it takes Jesus to make that law come alive.
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
jeremy mason, your arguments in favour of your position are worthy but pointless with someone who worships and percieves their god in such a different manner to you that i prefer to beleive they are no longer even worshiping the same god.
to explain the nature of the christian god to an islamic based faith is pointless, the nature of Allah is not the nature of the christian god.

Yet we can agree that Christianity is the religion of God. There is no doubt. Even when some would like to drive little wedges between us. Christians do not doubt that the God of Abreaham is the God of Jesus, neither do Baha`i's.

Regards,
Scott
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
Ok scott-- I've tried the old fashion way of showing you (in Scripture) where Jesus said he was God several times in the past.

You have not.....because there is no place in the 4 gospels where Yeshua says he is God. If there were this thread would have ended months ago. On the contrary...Yeshua says he existed in heaven (with) his god before the world was created, on earth tells us he's not God....even shows us he has not the power of his god, and in the last book, AFTER, he ascended he says over and over he has a god...........So NO......you haven't shown any place where Yeshua said he was God.
 
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