Did Jesus say he was God???

[Jeremy Mason]

The trinity and the cross seem to be too convenient symbols.

I guess you would see it that way.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

The Great Commission

16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Notice they worshiped him and he didn't stop them.

Well this really had nothing to do with Matthew 28:19 (IMO).....

But you seem to focus on "worship" as if they did it because he was a god. This is far from the truth. Worship, if you look it up, meant that they paid him homage, respect, acknowledgement. Yeshua was not the only one "worshiped" in the scripture. So since he wasn't the only one...are they gods too?

Psalm 45:11
So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Master; and worship thou
him.

Or even the word "pray"....which meant to beg. Not how we interpret it today.

But all of this trying to make Yeshua into God does little in light of Revelation 3:12...Where Yeshua, after the supposed ascension to heaven......He reveals to John he has a god.

Revelation 3:12
All who are victorious will become pillars in the Temple of my God, and they will never have to leave it. And I will write my God's name on them, and they will be citizens in the city of my God--the new Jerusalem that comes down from heaven from my God. And they will have my new name inscribed upon them.

These are explicit staments that need no interpretation. Up to this point God is sitting on the throne receiving praise from his creation but then enters the "lamb" who is the one worthy of opening the seals.

But notice he said the same thing when on earth....."my god"..."your god"......

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Well this really had nothing to do with Matthew 28:19 (IMO).....

But you seem to focus on "worship" as if they did it because he was a god. This is far from the truth. Worship, if you look it up, meant that they paid him homage, respect, acknowledgement. Yeshua was not the only one "worshiped" in the scripture. So since he wasn't the only one...are they gods too?

Psalm 45:11
So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Master; and worship thou
him.

Or even the word "pray"....which meant to beg. Not how we interpret it today.

But all of this trying to make Yeshua into God does little in light of Revelation 3:12...Where Yeshua, after the supposed ascension to heaven......He reveals to John he has a god.

Revelation 3:12
All who are victorious will become pillars in the Temple of my God, and they will never have to leave it. And I will write my God's name on them, and they will be citizens in the city of my God--the new Jerusalem that comes down from heaven from my God. And they will have my new name inscribed upon them.

These are explicit staments that need no interpretation. Up to this point God is sitting on the throne receiving praise from his creation but then enters the "lamb" who is the one worthy of opening the seals.

But notice he said the same thing when on earth....."my god"..."your god"......

What happened when people started worshipping Paul? What did Paul say or do?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

What happened when people started worshipping Paul? What did Paul say or do?

Again, this is not the point and it's off topic. "Worship", like the word "Pray"...in those days carried multiple meanings.

Unless you have a way to get around Rev. 3:12 we can only conclude, by the evidence, Yeshua is not God.......

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Again, this is not the point and it's off topic. "Worship", like the word "Pray"...in those days carried multiple meanings.

Yes, that's very convenient of you to dodge my question, however Paul was very savvy to the meaning of worship and immediately told them to stop; Jesus was worship a few times because those people realized the significance of Jesus's deity.

Unless you have a way to get around Rev. 3:12 we can only conclude, by the evidence, Yeshua is not God.......

I've told you time and time again that just because Jesus refers the Father as his God does not denounce Jesus as God heir. The only thing that inherits the Kingdom of Heaven is the Father's Son and his chosen ones.

 

[Popeyesays]

Yes, that's very convenient of you to dodge my question, however Paul was very savvy to the meaning of worship and immediately told them to stop; Jesus was worship a few times because those people realized the significance of Jesus's deity.


I've told you time and time again that just because Jesus refers the Father as his God does not denounce Jesus as God heir. The only thing that inherits the Kingdom of Heaven is the Father's Son and his chosen ones.

People in Palestine 'worshipped' Pilate and Herod, too in the same sense. They prayed for favors.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Jeremy Mason]

People in Palestine 'worshipped' Pilate and Herod, too in the same sense. They prayed for favors.

Regards,
Scott

How do you feel God felt about that?

 

[Popeyesays]

How do you feel God felt about that?

In the sense that people 'wroshipped' charismatic leaders asking for favor, I doubt that God worried about it. Best as I can tell "Childishness" is not one of the attributesw of God.

Now in worship as you and I mean it today, I think only God is worthy of worship; but then Jesus never claimed to b e God.

Regards,

Scott

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Yes, that's very convenient of you to dodge my question,

I dodged nothing. I simply reminded you that your Paul is not important to this discussion. Paul's life or even his opinion is not relevant.

Jesus was worship a few times because those people realized the significance of Jesus's deity.

Again, "worship" and even the word "pray"...carry multiple meanings. So what, people "worshiped" him and begged him for stuff.......He was the only one in the scriptures who people worshiped. Was the king mentioned of in the Psalms God or a god?

Or even this one here;

Daniel 2:46
Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him.

And Daniel did nothing to correct him so does this mean he was God? Nope.....

I've told you time and time again that just because Jesus refers the Father as his God does not denounce Jesus as God heir.

Yea...This made no sense at all. He refers explicitly to (HIS god)......He is, without a doubt, not God by his very declaration to John....Now remember, this is after the ascension.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Again, "worship" and even the word "pray"...carry multiple meanings. So what, people "worshiped" him and begged him for stuff.......He was the only one in the scriptures who people worshiped. Was the king mentioned of in the Psalms God or a god?





Yea...This made no sense at all. He refers explicitly to (HIS god)......He is, without a doubt, not God by his very declaration to John....Now remember, this is after the ascension.

I dodged nothing. I simply reminded you that your Paul is not important to this discussion. Paul's life or even his opinion is not relevant.

Paul may not be relevant to you. The point that I was making was that Paul understood that he was not to be worshiped because he felt that worshiping anything other than God was very wrong, so he stopped them, Jesus didn't.

Or even this one here;

Daniel 2:46
Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him.

And Daniel did nothing to correct him so does this mean he was God? Nope.....

Daniel 2:46 (NIV)
46 Then King Nebuchadnezzar fell prostrate before Daniel and paid him honor and ordered that an offering and incense be presented to him.
I'm not sure what version of the Bible you are using, but the NIV makes a point to clarify the misconception.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Paul may not be relevant to you. The point that I was making was that Paul understood that he was not to be worshiped because he felt that worshiping anything other than God was very wrong, so he stopped them, Jesus didn't.

So........

There were a couple others in your scripture that did the same thing. One was the angel in Rev. When John worshiped him and he told John not to. There was a case where some one attempted to worship Peter and he told them not to. In Psalms 45:11 the meaning of the word used there means simply to (worship). Can we then assume the king being mentioned there is to be viewed as God as well....Nope.

The word used throughout the NT in reference is (proskuneo) and it means;

Strong's Lexicon
proskuneo pros-koo-neh'-o (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master's hand); to fawn or crouch to, i.e. (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore):--worship.

The word they’ve translated as worship is “proskuneo” in the Greek manuscript, more a show of respect and greeting like catholics kissing the pope’s hand or kneeling down before him.

Maybe you're confusing "praise" for "worship". Even so...(praise), mentioned in the NT, was strictly for God and no one else. I could find no where in your scripture where it says "Yeshua was praised" or "they praised Yeshua"....

They simply showed Yeshua (adoration)...Interesting enough...this is the same word mentioned when it is translated into latin (adoraverunt). Adoration does not necessarily mean worship as we view it or even to praise.

Daniel 2:46 (NIV)
46 Then King Nebuchadnezzar fell prostrate before Daniel and paid him honor and ordered that an offering and incense be presented to him.
I'm not sure what version of the Bible you are using, but the NIV makes a point to clarify the misconception.

Then it all depends on what bible you want to use now doesn't it? The verse I quoted was straight from the RVKJV. As you know a lot of people still use the KJV. But my point was that the word used in Daniel 2:46 did not mean "worship" in the sense of the king thinking he was a god. You citing the NIV proves my point perfectly.

NIV = honor
NASV = homage (1960 to 1995)
NLT = worshiped
KJV = worshiped
ESV = homage
CEV = worshiped
ASV = worshiped (1901)
Darby = worshiped
NIV UK = prostrate (instead of the US the UK version uses the word prostrate)

So all that was done was that they showed him a sign of respect. But again, this means little in light of Rev. 3:12 where Yeshua, from heaven, informs John he has a god......and he says it over and over in that one verse.

 

[Muffled]

In the sense that people 'wroshipped' charismatic leaders asking for favor, I doubt that God worried about it. Best as I can tell "Childishness" is not one of the attributesw of God.

Now in worship as you and I mean it today, I think only God is worthy of worship; but then Jesus never claimed to b e God.

Regards,

Scott

On the contrary one of the Herods was called a god by the people and he was basking in that adulation when his guts fell out. I would call that a pretty nasty reaction by God.

What was God's reaction to Jesus being worshipped. He was resurrected, ascended and sits at the right hand of the Father. That doesn't sound like a rebuke to me.

 

[Ephramsdaughter]

Jesus said:

"Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent unto he world, Thou blasphemest; BECAUSE I SAID I AM THE SON OF GOD? (John 10:36 [30-36].

He, himself never actually said he was God. John 20:17 shows that God the Father was superior to Him:

"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ASCEND UNTO MY FATHER, AND YOUR FATHER; AND TO MY GOD, AND YOUR GOD.

In John 20:28, Thomas addressed him as "My Lord and my God." So how do we explain this? The Westcott & Hort Interliner translates it thus:

"apekrithee thwmas kai eipen autw ho kurios mou
ANSWERED THOMAS AND HE SAID TO HIM THE LORD OF ME
kai ho theos mou
AND THE GOD OF ME!"

Many believe that Jesus commended Thomas for the statement, "My Lord and my God." This, they say, shows that Jesus approved of what Thomas said, and according to them, that Thomas was calling Jesus God Almighty.

But when Jesus responded to Thomas's words, did He say that Yes, I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? No. Here is what He said in response:

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." (John 20:29)

Jesus commended Thomas because he finally believed. But what did he believe? "that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God;" (John 20:31). Jesus had emphasized that he had risen and now lived, something which Thomas had doubted. But nothing was said about Thomas saying "ho theos mou" [the god of me]. By calling Jesus the Christ, this would mean that He was anointed. Who anointed Him? The scriptures answer that he was anointed by God his Father. (Isaiah 61:1; Psalm 45:7).

In his prayer before his death, Jesus said to his Father: And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3).

Jesus recognizes his Father as the only true God, and that he himself, was sent by Him.

This is in harmony with John 3:16,17: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."

1hr 37 min later... I hope this makes sense.

Let me add this from Revelation 3:12:

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of MY GOD, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of MY GOD, and the name of the city of MY GOD, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from MY GOD: and I will write upon him my new name.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Jesus said:

"Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent unto he world, Thou blasphemest; BECAUSE I SAID I AM THE SON OF GOD? (John 10:36 [30-36].

He, himself never actually said he was God. John 20:17 shows that God the Father was superior to Him:

"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ASCEND UNTO MY FATHER, AND YOUR FATHER; AND TO MY GOD, AND YOUR GOD.

In John 20:28, Thomas addressed him as "My Lord and my God." So how do we explain this? The Westcott & Hort Interliner translates it thus:

"apekrithee thwmas kai eipen autw ho kurios mou
ANSWERED THOMAS AND HE SAID TO HIM THE LORD OF ME
kai ho theos mou
AND THE GOD OF ME!"

Many believe that Jesus commended Thomas for the statement, "My Lord and my God." This, they say, shows that Jesus approved of what Thomas said, and according to them, that Thomas was calling Jesus God Almighty.

But when Jesus responded to Thomas's words, did He say that Yes, I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? No. Here is what He said in response:

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." (John 20:29)

Jesus commended Thomas because he finally believed. But what did he believe? "that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God;" (John 20:31). Jesus had emphasized that he had risen and now lived, something which Thomas had doubted. But nothing was said about Thomas saying "ho theos mou" [the god of me]. By calling Jesus the Christ, this would mean that He was anointed. Who anointed Him? The scriptures answer that he was anointed by God his Father. (Isaiah 61:1; Psalm 45:7).

In his prayer before his death, Jesus said to his Father: And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3).

Jesus recognizes his Father as the only true God, and that he himself, was sent by Him.

This is in harmony with John 3:16,17: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."

1hr 37 min later... I hope this makes sense.

Let me add this from Revelation 3:12:

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of MY GOD, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of MY GOD, and the name of the city of MY GOD, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from MY GOD: and I will write upon him my new name.

The sad fact is.....I've said this over and over agaion and recenly adding Rev. 3:12 as you did. Now that verse is AFTER he ascended. So now we have the Yeshua, who has ascended still acknowledging what he did in John 20:17....(HE HAS A god)....So in no way is he God. Trinitarians won't ecept the fact that he never said he was God. He never implicitly or explicitly said it. He does, however, say explicitly that he has a god.

 

[yousaf]

I have been asked to produce evidence of the divinity of Jesus. This is not just good evidence, it is overwhelming evidence.


Words of Jesus

John 14:9 ... he that hath seen me hath seen the Father
John 14:10 ... the words that I say unto you , I speak not from myself but from the Father abiding in Me doeth His works
John 14:11 ... I am in the Father and the Father in Me
John 10:30 I and My Father are one
John 10:33 ... thou being a man makest Thyself God
John 8:58 Jesus said ... before Abraham was born, Jah (Jah is the short form of Jeshovah)
John 8:59 They took up stones therefore to cast at Him
Mark 2:5 and Jesus seeing their faith saith ... thy sins are forgiven
Mark 2:7 ... who can forgive sins but one, even God
Mark 10:17 ... good teacher Mark 10:18 Why callest Me good? None is good save one, even God John 10:11 I am the good shepherd
Mat. 1:21 ... call his name Jesus; for it is He that shall save his people from their sins
Prophecies of the Messiah Jesus
Isa. 45:21 ... I, Jehovah? and there is no God else besides Me a just God and savior, there is none besides Me
Isa. 7:14 ... a sign: behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call His name Immanuel (God with us)
Isa 9:6 a son is given, and the government shall be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called: Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace

Attributes of God
Omnipresence
John 1:46 Nathaniel saith unto Him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him Before Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
John 1:49 Nathaniel answered him, Rabbi thou art the Son of God; thou art King of Israel.
John 1:50 Jesus answered ... thou shalt see greater things than these
Omniscience
Luke 6:8 ...the Pharisees watched Him ... that they might find how to accuse him but He knew their thoughts
John 4:17 ... Thou sayest well, I have no husband
John 4:18 for thou hast had five husbands and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband
Omnipotence
Mark 4:41 ... Who then is this, that even the wind and the sea obey Him?

(He turned water into wine, multiplied bread, healed the sick and the blind, raised a man who was dead for four days)
Authority
Luke 4:36 ... for with authority and power He commandeth the unclean spirits and they come out
Mat 7:29 for He taught them as one having authority
Mat 28:18 ... Jesus ...spake... saying, all authority hath been given unto Me in heaven and on earth
The "I am" statements of Jesus
John 8:12 ... I am the light of the world
John 14:6 ... I am the way, the truth and the life
John 6:35 ... I am the bread of life
John 10:9 I am the door, by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved
John 11:25 ... I am the resurrection and the life
John 15:1 I am the true vine (this is a reference to Jesus being the Paraclete)

i think you need to look at the context of what jesus(pbuh) said. probably not of all of this is what jesus(pbuh) actually said but what paul wanted to teach

 

[Muffled]

i think you need to look at the context of what jesus(pbuh) said. probably not of all of this is what jesus(pbuh) actually said but what paul wanted to teach

You are displaying your ignorance of the Bible. All of the statements I listed were statements made by Jesus. On the other hand I accept what Paul wrote because he was inspired by the Spirit of God to write it. In addition I find nothing that Paul said that contradicts what Jesus said.

 

[Enoch07]

None of it is evidence of divinity. You cannot contain the ocean in a teacup, and God the Creator cannot be contained within all of Hisx Creation, much less the body of ONE human being.

The fact that Jesus was born of woman means He cannot have been God.

"The Father which sent me. . ." is just one more of dozens of opportunities Jesus took to keep Himself separate from God in the minds of His followers. At opportunity after opportunity Jesus calls Himself the Son of Man, not the Son of God.

My wife and I are one according to the Old Testament, that does not make my wife me, or me, my wife.

Jesus and God were one in purpose, one in Revelation (Jesus the mouthpiece, God Revealed Himself with). It can mean everything but "one and the same".

You prove your own assumption in your own lights and expect it to convince others? That's called "begging the question" or "Circular argument". It's not proof in any rational sense.

Regards.

Scott

God is omnipotent. Which means unlimited power. He can do whatever He wills regardless of what you consider to be rules or laws of reality. If He wished to place a small portion of His essence into a human body (Jesus) then He can make it so, and indeed He did.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

God is omnipotent. Which means unlimited power. He can do whatever He wills regardless of what you consider to be rules or laws of reality. If He wished to place a small portion of His essence into a human body (Jesus) then He can make it so, and indeed He did.

But he he didn't...at least reading your scriptures (the 4 gospels)...There is no evidence, even from the supposed lips of Yeshua this happened.....

 

[Enoch07]

But he he didn't...at least reading your scriptures (the 4 gospels)...There is no evidence, even from the supposed lips of Yeshua this happened.....

Really? Because this is Jesus speaking:

John 14:9 ... he that hath seen me hath seen the Father.
John 14:10 ... the words that I say unto you , I speak not from myself but from the Father abiding in Me doeth His works.
John 14:11 ... I am in the Father and the Father in Me.

 

[abdullah087]

jesus says in gospel of jhon ch v50 i my self can do NOTHING. what does this mean?