Did Jesus say he was God???

[American Patriot]

My bad for not clarifying. The conclusion is the same.

:yes: it is! You're confused!

 

[Shermana]

:yes: it is! You're confused!

I fully apologize for not clarifying originally to say that the NLT gets the part about "Calling upon the name" correctly, but the Douay Rheims gets the conclusion mostly correctly, though they misuse the word "Neither" as stated.

 

[American Patriot]

I fully apologize for not clarifying originally to say that the NLT gets the part about "Calling upon the name" correctly, but the Douay Rheims gets the conclusion mostly correctly, though they misuse the word "Neither" as stated.

Its fine.

Anyways we kind of got off topic, lets get back on.

Isaiah 44:24
(24) Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, *** I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; ***

John 1:10
(10) *** He was in the world, and the world was made by him ***, and the world knew him not.

Col 1:16 ***For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: ***
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;


From the above, we can factually state the Word of God tells us:

1. God made ALL THINGS BY HIMSELF ALONE!
2. JESUS MADE ALL THINGS!
3. The solitary Maker was in the World, and in context, John tells us this is JESUS CHRIST!
4. Either the BIBLE IS IN ERROR OR JESUS IS YAHWEH GOD! We believe the latter.
5. John 1:1 is correctly interpreted as “God”!
6. House of Yahweh and JW's have a real problem here. :yes:


Hey Shermana, were' still waiting for you to answer ONE single point of ours.
Since you refuse, we will accept your defeat. :ko:

 

[American Patriot]

Exodus 22:13
[FONT=&quot]And in all things that I have said
'amar (aw-mar')
to say (used with great latitude)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

unto you be circumspect
shamar (shaw-mar')
to hedge about (as with thorns), i.e. guard; generally, to protect, attend to, etc.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

and make no mention
zakar (zaw-kar')
to mark (so as to be recognized), i.e. to remember; by implication, to mention[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

of the name
shem (shame)
an appellation, as a mark or memorial of individuality; by implication honor, authority, character -- + base, (in-)fame(-ous), named(-d), renown, report.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

of other
'acher (akh-air')
hinder; generally, next, other, etc. -- (an-)other man, following, next, strange.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

gods
'elohiym (el-o-heem')
angels, exceeding, God (gods:-dess, -ly), (very) great, judges, mighty.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]neither let it be heard
shama` (shaw-mah')
to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively, to tell, etc.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

out
`al (al)
above, over, upon, or against (yet always in this last relation with a downward aspect) in a great variety of applications (as follow)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

of thy mouth
peh (peh)
the mouth (as the means of blowing), whether literal or figurative (particularly speech); specifically edge, portion or side; adverbially (with preposition) according to[/FONT]

Word Origin
Transliteration: zakar
a prim. root
Definition
remember
NASB Word Usage
been mindful (1), boast (1), bring my to remembrance (1), bringing to mind (1), brings to remembrance (1), burns (1), call to mind (1), celebrate (1), certainly still remember (1), come to remembrance (1), confess (1), consider (2), extol (1), invoke (1), invoked (1), keep (1), make mention (2), mention (4), mentioned (5), mentioning (1), mindful (1), named* (1), preserve (1), put me in remembrance (1), recorder (9), remember (132), remembered (42), remembering (1), remembers (4), remind (1), reminder (1), report (1), surely my remembers (1), take thought (1), well remember (1).

Original Word: שֵׁם
Transliteration: shem
Phonetic Spelling: (shame)
Short Definition: name

Word Origin
Transliteration: shama
of uncertain derivation
Definition
a name
NASB Word Usage
byword (1), defamed* (1), defames* (1), fame (8), famous (3), famous* (1), memorial (1), Name (3), name (654), name's (11), name* (4), named (7), named* (66), names (80), renown (6), renowned (1), report (1), repute (1), same names (1).
Original Word: שָׁמַע
Transliteration: shama
Phonetic Spelling: (shaw-mah')
Short Definition: heard

Word Origin
Transliteration: shama
a prim. root
Definition
to hear
NASB Word Usage
announce (2), announced (3), announces (3), completely (1), comprehends (1), diligently (1), discern (1), disregarded* (1), gave heed (2), give earnest heed (1), given heed (2), hear (270), hear* (1), heard (363), heard for certain (1), hearing (5), hears (33), heed (5), heeded (2), indeed obey (1), keep on listening (1), listen (226), listen attentively (1), listen carefully (3), listen closely (1), listen obediently (2), listened (52), listening (12), listens (7), loud-sounding (3), made a proclamation (1), make his heard (1), make their heard (1), make them known (1), make themselves heard (1), make your heard (1), obedient (1), obey (32), obey* (14), obeyed (21), obeyed* (5), obeying (6), obeys (1), overheard (1), pay heed (1), proclaim (15), proclaimed (6), proclaims (1), reported (3), sang (1), show (1), sound (2), sound* (1), sounded (1), summon (2), summoned (2), surely hear (1), surely heard (1), truly obey (1), understand (7), understanding (1), understood (1), witness (1).

Original Word: פֶּה
Transliteration: peh
Phonetic Spelling: (peh)
Short Definition: mouth

Word Origin
Transliteration: peh
a prim. root
Definition
mouth
NASB Word Usage
accord (1), accordance (1), accordance* (1), accorded (1), according (9), according* (2), apt (1), beak (2), boast* (1), boasting (1), collar (1), command (45), commandment (6), counsel (1), dictated* (1), dictation (6), edge (37), edges (2), end (2), evidence (4), face (4), hunger (1), intent (1), jaws (1), just* (1), lips (5), mouth (275), mouths (14), much (3), one end (2), one end to the other (1), one end to another (1), opening (11), parts (1), portion (2), promised* (1), proportion (5), proportionate (2), said* (1), say (1), settled* (1), so (1), sound (1), speech (3), spoke (1), spoken* (1), spokesman (1), talking* (1), taste (1), terms (2), told* (1), two-edged (2), uniformly* (2), what they say (1), whenever (1), wishes (1), word (7), words (3).

Exodus 23:13 Bible Lexicon

 

[American Patriot]

[FONT=&quot]Now concerning everything[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]וּבְכֹ[/FONT][FONT=&quot]֛[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ל[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]u·ve·chol[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3605[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]the whole, all[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]from kalal[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

which[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]אֲשֶׁר־[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]a·sher-[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]834[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]who, which, that[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]a prim. pronoun[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

I have said[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]אָמַ[/FONT][FONT=&quot]֥[/FONT][FONT=&quot]רְתִּי[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]a·mar·ti[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]559[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]to utter, say[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]a prim. root[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

to you, be on your guard;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]תִּשָּׁמֵ[/FONT][FONT=&quot]֑[/FONT][FONT=&quot]רוּ[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]ti·sha·me·ru;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8104[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]to keep, watch, preserve[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]a prim. root[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

and do not mention[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]תַזְכִּ[/FONT][FONT=&quot]֔[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ירוּ[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]taz·ki·ru,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2142[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]remember[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]a prim. root[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

the name[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]וְשֵׁ[/FONT][FONT=&quot]֨[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ם[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]ve·shem[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8034[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
a name[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]of uncertain derivation[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

of other[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]אֲחֵרִים[/FONT][FONT=&quot]֙[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]a·che·rim[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]312[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]another[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]from achar[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

gods,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]אֱלֹהִ[/FONT][FONT=&quot]֤[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ים[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]e·lo·him[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]430[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]God, god[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]pl. of eloah[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

nor[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]לֹ[/FONT][FONT=&quot]֣[/FONT][FONT=&quot]א[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]lo[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3808[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]not[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]a prim. adverb[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

let [them] be heard[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]יִשָּׁמַ[/FONT][FONT=&quot]֖[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ע[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]yi·sha·ma[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8085[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]to hear[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]a prim. root

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]from your mouth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]פִּֽיךָ׃[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]pi·cha.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6310[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]mouth[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]a prim. root

Exodus 22:13
[/FONT]Now concerning everything which I have said to you, be on your guard and do not mention the name of other gods, nor let [them] be heard from your mouth.

[FONT=&quot]
http://biblelexicon.org/exodus/23-13.htm[/FONT]
​

 

[Shermana]

The word "Remember" is not necessarily mention, as much as it is "Invoke". Again, the concept can also mean "burn incense to".

As stated, The word "Nor" and "neither' is an incorrect use of "Lo", it is a grammatical liberty. It is all part of the same sentence "Do not invoke the name of other gods, Do not let it heard be from your mouth "

 

[Pegg]

You should teach hebrew...

you should learn it

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I hope other people read it and look that I put both translations up, to show their agreement and the divergence. I don't think the NLT is always right. Only in certain places, sometimes it's right and wrong in parts of the same verse.



Again, the translation should be, gramatically correct from Hebrew into English: "May it not be heard from your mouth calling on the name of any other god."

I understood it very well. The English language is passable when doing bible study but should not be relied upon solely because when you translate from one language to another you're always gonna have somethings to not translate correctly. It's always the best practice to familiarize ones self with Hebrew and Greek for the purpose of bible study.

 

[American Patriot]

The word "Remember" is not necessarily mention, as much as it is "Invoke". Again, the concept can also mean "burn incense to".

As stated, The word "Nor" and "neither' is an incorrect use of "Lo", it is a grammatical liberty. It is all part of the same sentence "Do not invoke the name of other gods, Do not let it heard be from your mouth "

Wrong! You just pick and choose what you want! Even you said necessarily, so it can and does mean mention! Which means you better stop calling on Yeshua!

Transliteration: zakar
Phonetic Spelling: (zaw-kar')
Short Definition: remember

Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
remember
NASB Word Usage
been mindful (1), boast (1), bring my to remembrance (1), bringing to mind (1), brings to remembrance (1), burns (1), call to mind (1), celebrate (1), certainly still remember (1), come to remembrance (1), confess (1), consider (2), extol (1), invoke (1), invoked (1), keep (1), make mention (2), mention (4), mentioned (5), mentioning (1), mindful (1), named* (1), preserve (1), put me in remembrance (1), recorder (9), remember (132), remembered (42), remembering (1), remembers (4), remind (1), reminder (1), report (1), surely my remembers (1), take thought (1), well remember (1).

 

[American Patriot]

you should learn it

You should learn the bible!

 

[Shermana]

Wrong! You just pick and choose what you want! Even you said necessarily, so it can and does mean mention! Which means you better stop calling on Yeshua!

Transliteration: zakar
Phonetic Spelling: (zaw-kar')
Short Definition: remember

Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
remember
NASB Word Usage
been mindful (1), boast (1), bring my to remembrance (1), bringing to mind (1), brings to remembrance (1), burns (1), call to mind (1), celebrate (1), certainly still remember (1), come to remembrance (1), confess (1), consider (2), extol (1), invoke (1), invoked (1), keep (1), make mention (2), mention (4), mentioned (5), mentioning (1), mindful (1), named* (1), preserve (1), put me in remembrance (1), recorder (9), remember (132), remembered (42), remembering (1), remembers (4), remind (1), reminder (1), report (1), surely my remembers (1), take thought (1), well remember (1).

What's the word "Burns" doing there? "Extol". "Celebrate". "Invoke". There is a difference between "remembering" something and "Remembering" as in Invoking. If I remember to take out the trash, that's not the same as "remembering" someone at a funeral. Either way, the concept of not even speaking the names of other gods Prevents you from even reading a mythology book. You can't even say that "So and so is a false god!" The concept of "remember" in these cases is generally "invoke".

Perhaps you can get some of the examples where those words are used in their context.

 

[American Patriot]

What's the word "Burns" doing there? "Extol". "Celebrate". "Invoke". There is a difference between "remembering" something and "Remembering" as in Invoking. If I remember to take out the trash, that's not the same as "remembering" someone at a funeral. Either way, the concept of not even speaking the names of other gods Prevents you from even reading a mythology book. You can't even say that "So and so is a false god!" The concept of "remember" in these cases is generally "invoke".

Perhaps you can get some of the examples where those words are used in their context.

I can prove you wrong, but the point is that its mention not invoke and even then look at this..


tr.v. in·voked, in·vok·ing, in·vokes 1. To call on (a higher power) for assistance, support, or inspiration: "Stretching out her hands she had the air of a Greek woman who invoked a deity" (Ford Madox Ford).
2. To appeal to or cite in support or justification.
3. To call for earnestly; solicit: invoked the help of a passing motorist.
4. To summon with incantations; conjure.
5. To resort to; use or apply: "Shamelessly, he invokes coincidence to achieve ironic effect" (Newsweek).
6. Computer Science To activate or start (a program, for example).

invoke [ɪnˈvəʊk]vb (tr)1. to call upon (an agent, esp God or another deity) for help, inspiration, etc.
2. to put (a law, penalty, etc.) into use the union invoked the dispute procedure
3. to appeal to (an outside agent or authority) for confirmation, corroboration, etc.
4. to implore or beg (help, etc.)
5. (Non-Christian Religions / Other Non-Christian Religions) to summon (a spirit, demon, etc.); conjure up[from Latin invocāre to call upon, appeal to, from vocāre to call]
invocable adj
invoker nUsage: Invoke is sometimes wrongly used where evoke is meant: this proposal evoked (not invoked) a strong reaction


1Co 1:2
(2) Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

The phrase "call upon" above means epikaleó which means to invoke!

appeal unto, call on, invoke Middle voice from epi and kaleo; to entitle; by implication, to invoke (for aid, worship, testimony, decision, etc.) -- appeal (unto), call (on, upon), surname.


Rom 10:13
(13) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

The phrase "call upon" above means epikaleó which means to invoke!

appeal unto, call on, invoke Middle voice from epi and kaleo; to entitle; by implication, to invoke (for aid, worship, testimony, decision, etc.) -- appeal (unto), call (on, upon), surname.


Act 4:10-12
(10) Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
(11) This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
(12) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Act 22:16
(16) And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

The word calling above means epikaleó which means to invoke!

appeal unto, call on, invoke Middle voice from epi and kaleo; to entitle; by implication, to invoke (for aid, worship, testimony, decision, etc.) -- appeal (unto), call (on, upon), surname.



Hmm, either you're not saved or you invoked the name of Yashua !

 

[Shermana]

Did you even understand what I meant the first time when I said the part about "Calling upon the Name of" was the correct translation?

 

[American Patriot]

There are many cases that many translations take liberties and/or copy the mainstream.

The exact Hebrew, as any Hebrew Speaker on this site if they'd be so helpful to explain, says:

וּבְכֹ֛ל אֲשֶׁר־ אָמַ֥רְתִּי אֲלֵיכֶ֖ם תִּשָּׁמֵ֑רוּ וְשֵׁ֨ם אֱלֹהִ֤ים אֲחֵרִים֙ לֹ֣א תַזְכִּ֔ירוּ לֹ֥א יִשָּׁמַ֖ע עַל־ פִּֽיךָ׃

The words in question are:

2142. ????? (zakar) -- remember

"Remember" = "invoke" = "Call upon", it's not really so much "Mentioning" as it is "

burn incense, earnestly, be male, make mention of, be mindful, recount

The definition is more than just "mention", it is "invoke", which CAN mean "mention", but it is more in the line of "Invoking with a purpose to call upon".



The word "neither", as mentioned is "lo" which means "No". Gramatically, it does not have a shift in context. It is all the same sentence. "No hear it from your mouths".

3808. ??? (lo or lo or loh) -- not

Now for "heard"

8085. ?????? (shama) -- to hear

In Hebrew grammar it is "Do not invoke the names of other gods, let it not be heard from your mouth (doing so).

Well, when your response is merely "Give it up", what do you expect? As far as I'm concerned, I can discuss people's pagan mythologies without fear of Invoking or burning incense to them. You however, wouldn't be able to even read a book on Mythology.

Did you even understand what I meant the first time when I said the part about "Calling upon the Name of" was the correct translation?

Exactly! Either your not saved because you called upon or invoked Yashua which according to you is a "god" or your not saved because you haven't called upon or invoked the name of Yashua!

 

[Shermana]

Exactly! Either your not saved because you called upon or invoked Yashua which according to you is a "god" or your not saved because you haven't called upon or invoked the name of Yashua!

Where exactly does it say you have to call upon Yashua's name to be "saved", as opposed to following him and accepting as Moshiach?

 

[Shermana]

Besides, if you're not even allowed to mention the names of other gods, why is their names even in the bible? Are you supposed to blot them out with a pen?

 

[American Patriot]

Where exactly does it say you have to call upon Yashua's name to be "saved", as opposed to following him and accepting as Moshiach?

I have you running now!!

Act 4:10-12
(10) Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
(11) This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
(12) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Rom 10:13
(13) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

The phrase "call upon" above means epikaleó which means to invoke!

appeal unto, call on, invoke Middle voice from epi and kaleo; to entitle; by implication, to invoke (for aid, worship, testimony, decision, etc.) -- appeal (unto), call (on, upon), surname.

And the bible is going to tell us to call upon the name Yeshua and its the only name that we must be saved by but yet really were not going to go to be saved by calling upon or invoking that name? Matter a fact were probably going to hell for it!

 

[American Patriot]

Besides, if you're not even allowed to mention the names of other gods, why is their names even in the bible? Are you supposed to blot them out with a pen?

First off you said invoke,and now your trying to wiggle your way out!

Second, Paul said...

Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

But yet Paul spoke of these things in the bible to shed light on what were not suppose to do!
Just like the names of other gods were mentioned to shed light on what were not suppose to do.

I'm not going to let you off till either you tell me you have invoked the name of Yeshua therefore according to you, you're in sin, or you haven't invoked the name of Yeshua and you are not saved!

 

[Shermana]

What are you talking about? How am I trying to "wiggle my way out". And the quote from Ephesians, why don't you quote the rest to get the context.

 

[Shermana]

I have you running now!!

Act 4:10-12
(10) Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
(11) This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
(12) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Rom 10:13
(13) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

The phrase "call upon" above means epikaleó which means to invoke!

appeal unto, call on, invoke Middle voice from epi and kaleo; to entitle; by implication, to invoke (for aid, worship, testimony, decision, etc.) -- appeal (unto), call (on, upon), surname.

And the bible is going to tell us to call upon the name Yeshua and its the only name that we must be saved by but yet really were not going to go to be saved by calling upon or invoking that name? Matter a fact were probably going to hell for it!

Romans 10:13 is not talking about Jesus but the Father. Another example of Trinitarian presupposition logic.

New Living Translation (©2007)
For "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved."

Acts 4:12 says nothing about calling upon the name, it's simply a statement. For instance:

"then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed"

Being done IN someone's name is a whole another story.

Acts 4:7
New Living Translation (©2007)
They brought in the two disciples and demanded, "By what power, or in whose name, have you done this?"