Did Jesus say he was God???

[Shermana]

Romans 10, like Revelations, can be tricky when put in the hands of Trinitarian cherry picking. Context helps show who is talking and when. Also, I'd like to note as a side reference, the concept of Christ being the "end of the Law" means the "Completion" as in the sense of "Final placement", not the word "end" in the sense of termination, but in "finishing". Like "finishing a project". It says Jesus is "Lord" in the same way that David was "Lord". The LORD however.... The NLT in this instance correctly makes the divide in the reference with Kuriou and the Kurios. One is a title, one is a being.

New Living Translation (©2007)
For "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved."

1Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
5Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: “The man who does these things will live by them.”a 6But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’b” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7“or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’c” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,”d that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.”e 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”f

 

[American Patriot]

Romans 10, like Revelations, can be tricky when put in the hands of Trinitarian cherry picking. Context helps show who is talking and when. Also, I'd like to note as a side reference, the concept of Christ being the "end of the Law" means the "Completion" as in the sense of "Final placement", not the word "end" in the sense of termination, but in "finishing". Like "finishing a project". It says Jesus is "Lord" in the same way that David was "Lord". The LORD however.... The NLT in this instance correctly makes the divide in the reference with Kuriou and the Kurios. One is a title, one is a being.

New Living Translation (©2007)
For "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved."

1Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
5Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: “The man who does these things will live by them.”a 6But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’b” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7“or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’c” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,”d that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.”e 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”f

Romans 10:13 is not talking about Jesus but the Father. Another example of Trinitarian presupposition logic.

New Living Translation (©2007)
For "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved."

Acts 4:12 says nothing about calling upon the name, it's simply a statement. For instance:
Being done IN someone's name is a whole another story.

Hmm, either you're wrong or the bible lied. You said that romans 10:13 is talking about the Father, and the Father is not Yeshua according to you!

Act 4:10-12
(10) Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
(11) This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
(12) Neither is there salvation in any other: [/B]for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


The bible says there is no other name under heaven where by we must be saved, Yeshua! The "Lord" in romans 10:13 was talking about Yeshua!

Now..

Act 22:16
(16) And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Act 2:38
(38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 19:5
(5) When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

The bible says to invoke the name of Yashua when we are baptized!

Act 2:21-24
(21) And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
(22) Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
(23) Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
(24) Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

In context this is defiantly talking about Yeshua, and we know Yeshua is the only saving name!(Acts 4:12)


Also..

1Co 1:2
(2) Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

These people invoked the name of Yeshua!

Either your not saved because you called upon or invoked Yashua which according to you is a "god" or your not saved because you haven't called upon or invoked the name of Yashua! And either you are right or the bible lied to us! I believe the bible..

 

[American Patriot]

What are you talking about? How am I trying to "wiggle my way out". And the quote from Ephesians, why don't you quote the rest to get the context.

Eph 5:8-16
(8) For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
(9) (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth
(10) Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
(11) And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
(12) For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
(13) But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
(14) Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
(15) See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
(16) Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.


It still means what I said in context!

 

[Shermana]

" And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
(12) For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret."

Unfruitful works of darkness.

Also, saying that "You're wrong or the Bible lied" is not a substitute explanation for the actual context of Romans 10:13. But I appreciate you showing the Trinitarian tactics to everyone of misreading the context.

 

[American Patriot]

" And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
(12) For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret."

Unfruitful works of darkness.

Also, saying that "You're wrong or the Bible lied" is not a substitute explanation for the actual context of Romans 10:13. But I appreciate you showing the Trinitarian tactics to everyone of misreading the context.

That's all you have to say after I proved romans 10:13 is talking about Yeshua, and so is acts 2:21, and the I proved that the apostles commended us to invoke then name of Yeshua when we are baptized! I also gave example of saved people invoking the name of Yeshua. And that's all you have to say? Wow its obvious you lost this debate and you're in a false religion and you are not saved!

You say we cannot invoke the name of another God and yet according to you, Yeshua is not the Father and the bible commands to invoke his name! You are defiantly wrong!

 

[American Patriot]

" And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
(12) For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret."

Unfruitful works of darkness.

Exactly, unfruitful works of darkness is what I'm talking about!

Rom 1:29-30
(29) Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
(30) Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

I would call these unfruitful works of darkness, wouldn't you?

 

[Shermana]

Anyone reading Romans 10 can see who it is referring to. You are deliberately twisting the context, just like with Revelation. You didn't even know it was an Angel speaking in Chapter 22 until we pointed it out to you.

And you're switching the subject of the context with why I even brought up the context of Ephesians. Try to stay on track.

 

[Shermana]

That's all you have to say after I proved romans 10:13 is talking about Yeshua, and so is acts 2:21, and the I proved that the apostles commended us to invoke then name of Yeshua when we are baptized! I also gave example of saved people invoking the name of Yeshua. And that's all you have to say? Wow its obvious you lost this debate and you're in a false religion and you are not saved!

You say we cannot invoke the name of another God and yet according to you, Yeshua is not the Father and the bible commands to invoke his name! You are defiantly wrong!

No, again, they are not "invoking the name", they are doing it IN the name of. Big difference.

 

[American Patriot]

Anyone reading Romans 10 can see who it is referring to. You are deliberately twisting the context, just like with Revelation. You didn't even know it was an Angel speaking in Chapter 22 until we pointed it out to you.

And you're switching the subject of the context with why I even brought up the context of Ephesians. Try to stay on track.

First off, I'm not twisting anything, I'm just taking the whole bible into consideration, and no, your taking Romans 10:13 out of context of not only Romans 10 but the whole bible!
Second No, you're the one getting of subject! Let me remind you.

"Remember" = "invoke" = "Call upon", it's not really so much "Mentioning" as it is "

The definition is more than just "mention", it is "invoke", which CAN mean "mention", but it is more in the line of "Invoking with a purpose to call upon".

In Hebrew grammar it is "Do not invoke the names of other gods, let it not be heard from your mouth (doing so).

First off, the point is not that Romans 10 is talking about Yeshua or according to you the Father, because if we take the whole bible in context we see its Yeshua(Acts 4:12!)

Anyone reading Romans 10 can clearly see without knowing anything else about the bible, like yourself that its talking about Yeshua!

Rom 10:1-16
(1) Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
(2) For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
(3) For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
(4) For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
(5) For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
(6) But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
(7) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
(8) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
(9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
(10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
(11) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
(12) For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
(13) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
(14) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
(15) And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
(16) But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

Hmm, this is defiantly Yeshua in verse 13!!! Verse 9 says to confess with thy mouth Yeshua! Then what does verse 14 say, how can we believe on him in context of verse 13 if we have not heard? Who are we suppose to believe on?(Jn 3:16) Then if we take this in the context of the whole bible (Acts 4:12) it must be talking about Yeshua!

Act 4:12
(12) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

The bible commands us to invoke the name Yeshua!

 

[American Patriot]

No, again, they are not "invoking the name", they are doing it IN the name of. Big difference.

No, in Acts and Romans it's commanding us to invoke!

Original Word: ἐπικαλέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: epikaleó

appeal unto, call on, invoke Middle voice from epi and kaleo; to entitle; by implication, to invoke (for aid, worship, testimony, decision, etc.) -- appeal (unto), call (on, upon), surname.





Act 2:21
(21) And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.


"shall call" above means invoke!

1Co 1:2
(2) Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

ἐπικαλουμένοιςepikaloumenois1941V-PMP-DPMwho call upon

Original Word: ἐπικαλέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: epikaleó
Phonetic Spelling: (ep-ee-kal-eh'-om-ahee)

appeal unto, call on, invoke Middle voice from epi and kaleo; to entitle; by implication, to invoke (for aid, worship, testimony, decision, etc.) -- appeal (unto), call (on, upon), surname.



The saints at Corinth invoked the name of Yeshua!

So our conclusion is Yeshua is Yahweh! You are clearly in error by calling Yeshua a god, when clearly the bible teaches not to invoke the name of another god besides Yahweh, but since we know Yeshua is Yahweh we are told if we invoke the name Yeshua we will be saved!

 

[ApostolicPeter]

No, again, they are not "invoking the name", they are doing it IN the name of. Big difference.

At this point, I can only imagine what the readers of this thread must be thinking, watching you twisting, manipulating and defying scripture to support your false belief system. Everybody reading this thread can clearly see what you are doing.

Here's the status of this round in a nutshell:

1. We proved conclusively that you can not call upon, invoke, mention other god's besides God except in the context to expose and refute them (Ex 23:13.) This is a problem for you because you believe Yeshua is a god.

2. Then we proved that according to the Bible we are required to call upon and invoke the saving name of Yeshua in order to be saved.

3. Now we are watching you squirm, dodge and try to play word games, saying Romans 10:13 is not referring to Yeshua and that calling upon His name is not "invoking it". This is unbelievable. I thought you claimed to love the Truth. Why then are you fighting so hard to defend a lie. :tsk:

American Patriot's post #3209 was a slam dunk! How can you say Roman's 10:13 is not talking about Jesus?

 

[Shermana]

Well you can accuse me of whatever you want, the reader can see you took a nose dive away from the subject. Invoking and doing something in the name of someone are two different things. Extoling/celebrating/Burning incense to a god is not the same as baptizing in someone else's name. The word "Invoke" in the sense it is used means "To call upon". As I will demonstrate, 1 Co 1:2 has a peculiar (though common) translation of "call upon the name of the Lord of us, of Jesus Christ", that should be read as "Call the name (authority) of Jesus as Lord". It's not addressing those who invoke Jesus but call him Lord (as opposed to LORD). The translation that is commonly given has some awkward grammar in its current form, like other passages that have trintarian-based translations.

If the translation merely meant "You shall not even speak their names", like I said, you can't even DISCUSS mythology.

You can also ignore everything I said, such as the word "before me", which means "you shall have no god over or equal to me"

Romans 10:13 is talking about the LORD, not Jesus, it's the same kind of thing where you thought Rev 22:13 was Jesus talking directly, you had no idea it was an angel until recently. The reader can easily see the context of Chapter 10 by reading it as a whole to see that it's referring to the LORD, not the "lord". I'm sure you're aware there are two uses of the word "Lord" in the Greek, and one is as a replacement for the Tetragrammaton, whereas the other one is used for kings and earthly leaders.

Perhaps you want to go over verses 9-13 in detail.

Now you MAY have a point about the word "Call upon" in Greek meaning the same, however, the same word can be used for "to give a name to", the Hebrew word doesn't share that definition for "call"....

Acts 1:23 καὶ ἔστησαν δύο, Ἰωσὴφ τὸν καλούμενον Βαρσαββᾶν ὃς ἐπεκλήθη Ἰοῦστος καὶ Μαθθίαν. They put forward two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

But it is used that way in 1 Peter 1:17 for the Father Himself.

Now however, I do question the translation of 1 Co 1:2, it can also be translated as: "Who call Jesus the Lord of us in Authority", the word "Name" can also mean "Authority". As shown, the word "Call" can simply mean "What you designate" as opposed to "Call upon".

The sentence can in fact (and should be) read as "Those who call the authority (name) of Jesus lord"

 

[American Patriot]

This goes in chronological order!

Here is the best translation for that verse:

New Living Translation (©2007)
"Pay close attention to all my instructions. You must not call on the name of any other gods. Do not even speak their names.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Keep all things that I have said to you. And by the name of strange gods you shall not swear, neither shall it be heard out of your mouth

As for Colossians, start with 1:15 "Firstborn of all creation", and then see Philo's idea of the Logos as the Creator Angel.

I thought you didn't like modern translations. Until now. Isn't this a bit hypocritical?

AND I guess you better not mention the name of your god Yeshua!

When did I say I don't like modern translations, I said each one has their uses at times.

There's a difference between mentioning names of other gods and calling upon them as God.

Here is the best translation for that verse:

New Living Translation (©2007)
"Pay close attention to all my instructions. You must not call on the name of any other gods. Do not even speak their names

There's a difference betweenmentioning names of other gods and calling upon them as God. .

Lol you have just been exposed!

That's one of the reasons I included the D-Rheims version, for the last part which the NLT incorrectly translates, though they both agree on the first part.

In other words it says "Do not let it be heard from your mouth the calling on the name of another god".

The word "neither" simply doesn't exist.

There are many cases that many translations take liberties and/or copy the mainstream.

The exact Hebrew, as any Hebrew Speaker on this site if they'd be so helpful to explain, says:

[FONT=&quot]וּבְכֹ[/FONT][FONT=&quot]֛ל[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]אֲשֶׁר־[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]אָמַ[/FONT][FONT=&quot]֥רְתִּי[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]אֲלֵיכֶ[/FONT][FONT=&quot]֖ם[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]תִּשָּׁמֵ[/FONT][FONT=&quot]֑רוּ[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]וְשֵׁ[/FONT][FONT=&quot]֨ם[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]אֱלֹהִ[/FONT][FONT=&quot]֤ים[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]אֲחֵרִים[/FONT][FONT=&quot]֙[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]לֹ[/FONT][FONT=&quot]֣א[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]תַזְכִּ[/FONT][FONT=&quot]֔ירוּ[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]לֹ[/FONT][FONT=&quot]֥א[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]יִשָּׁמַ[/FONT][FONT=&quot]֖ע[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]עַל־[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]פִּֽיךָ׃[/FONT]

The words in question are:

2142. ????? (zakar) -- remember

"Remember" = "invoke" = "Call upon", it's not really so much "Mentioning" as it is "

burn incense, earnestly, be male, make mention of, be mindful, recount

The definition is more than just "mention", it is "invoke", which CAN mean "mention", but it is more in the line of "Invoking with a purpose to call upon".



The word "neither", as mentioned is "lo" which means "No". Gramatically, it does not have a shift in context. It is all the same sentence. "No hear it from your mouths".

3808. ??? (lo or lo or loh) -- not

Now for "heard"

8085. ?????? (shama) -- to hear

In Hebrew grammar it is "Do not invoke the names of other gods, let it not be heard from your mouth (doing so).

The word "Remember" is not necessarily mention, as much as it is "Invoke". Again, the concept can also mean "burn incense to".

As stated, The word "Nor" and "neither' is an incorrect use of "Lo", it is a grammatical liberty. It is all part of the same sentence "Do not invoke the name of other gods, Do not let it heard be from your mouth "

What's the word "Burns" doing there? "Extol". "Celebrate". "Invoke". There is a difference between "remembering" something and "Remembering" as in Invoking. If I remember to take out the trash, that's not the same as "remembering" someone at a funeral. Either way, the concept of not even speaking the names of other gods Prevents you from even reading a mythology book. You can't even say that "So and so is a false god!" The concept of "remember" in these cases is generally "invoke".

Perhaps you can get some of the examples where those words are used in their context.

I can prove you wrong, but the point is that its mention not invoke and even then look at this..


tr.v. in·voked, in·vok·ing, in·vokes 1. To call on (a higher power) for assistance, support, or inspiration: "Stretching out her hands she had the air of a Greek woman who invoked a deity" (Ford Madox Ford).
2. To appeal to or cite in support or justification.
3. To call for earnestly; solicit: invoked the help of a passing motorist.
4. To summon with incantations; conjure.
5. To resort to; use or apply: "Shamelessly, he invokes coincidence to achieve ironic effect" (Newsweek).
6. Computer Science To activate or start (a program, for example).

invoke [[FONT=&quot]ɪ[/FONT]nˈv[FONT=&quot]ə[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ʊ[/FONT]k]vb (tr)1. to call upon (an agent, esp God or another deity) for help, inspiration, etc.
2. to put (a law, penalty, etc.) into use the union invoked the dispute procedure
3. to appeal to (an outside agent or authority) for confirmation, corroboration, etc.
4. to implore or beg (help, etc.)
5. (Non-Christian Religions / Other Non-Christian Religions) to summon (a spirit, demon, etc.); conjure up[from Latin invocāre to call upon, appeal to, from vocāre to call]
invocable adj
invoker nUsage: Invoke is sometimes wrongly used where evoke is meant: this proposal evoked (not invoked) a strong reaction


1Co 1:2
(2) Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

The phrase "call upon" above means epikaleó which means to invoke!
[appeal unto, call on, invoke Middle voice from epi and kaleo; to entitle; by implication, to invoke (for aid, worship, testimony, decision, etc.) -- appeal (unto), call (on, upon), surname.


Rom 10:13
(13) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

The phrase "call upon" above means epikaleó which means to invoke!

appeal unto, call on, invoke Middle voice from epi and kaleo; to entitle; by implication, to invoke (for aid, worship, testimony, decision, etc.) -- appeal (unto), call (on, upon), surname.


Act 4:10-12
(10) Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
(11) This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
(12) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Act 22:16
(16) And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

The word calling above means epikaleó which means to invoke!

appeal unto, call on, invoke Middle voice from epi and kaleo; to entitle; by implication, to invoke (for aid, worship, testimony, decision, etc.) -- appeal (unto), call (on, upon), surname.



Hmm, either you're not saved or you invoked the name of Yashua !

Hmm, I definitely didn't change the subject!

 

[American Patriot]

Romans 10:13 is talking about the LORD, not Jesus, it's the same kind of thing where you thought Rev 22:13 was Jesus talking directly, you had no idea it was an angel until recently. The reader can easily see the context of Chapter 10 by reading it as a whole to see that it's referring to the LORD, not the "lord". I'm sure you're aware there are two uses of the word "Lord" in the Greek, and one is as a replacement for the Tetragrammaton, whereas the other one is used for kings and earthly leaders.

Perhaps you want to go over verses 9-13 in detail.

Now you MAY have a point about the word "Call upon" in Greek meaning the same, however, the same word can be used for "to give a name to", the Hebrew word doesn't share that definition for "call"....

First off, the point is not that Romans 10 is talking about Yeshua or according to you the Father, because if we take the whole bible in context we see its Yeshua(Acts 4:12!)

Anyone reading Romans 10 can clearly see without knowing anything else about the bible, like yourself that its talking about Yeshua!

Rom 10:1-16
(1) Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
(2) For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
(3) For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
(4) For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
(5) For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
(6) But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
(7) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
(8) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
(9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
(10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
(11) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
(12) For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
(13) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
(14) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
(15) And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
(16) But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

Hmm, this is defiantly Yeshua in verse 13!!! Verse 9 says to confess with thy mouth Yeshua! Then what does verse 14 say, how can we believe on him in context of verse 13 if we have not heard? Who are we suppose to believe on?(Jn 3:16) Then if we take this in the context of the whole bible (Acts 4:12) it must be talking about Yeshua!

Act 4:12
(12) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

The bible commands us to invoke the name Yeshua!

 

[Shermana]

The fact is that 1 Co 1:2 should be read as "Those who call the name (authority) of Jesus as Lord" does not constitute "Changing the subject", it's just showing how Trinitarian spin found its way into many translations. The word for "Call upon", unlike Hebrew, can simply be used for "designating" as well as "call upon". Gramatically, it's not correct to say "Those who call upon the name of the Lord of us of Jesus Christ."

 

[American Patriot]

Acts 1:23 καὶ ἔστησαν δύο, Ἰωσὴφ τὸν καλούμενον Βαρσαββᾶν ὃς ἐπεκλήθη Ἰοῦστος καὶ Μαθθίαν. They put forward two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

The word for "called" in Acts 1:23 is "kaleo" it does not mean invoked.

Original Word: καλέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: kaleó
Phonetic Spelling: (kal-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I call, invite, name
Definition: (a) I call, summon, invite, (b) I call, name.

Word Origin
a prim. word
Definition
to call
NASB Word Usage
call (13), called (99), calling (2), calls (7), give (1), invite (2), invited (15), invited guests (1), invites (1), name given (1), named (2), so-called (1), summoned (2).

 

[American Patriot]

The fact is that 1 Co 1:2 should be read as "Those who call the name (authority) of Jesus as Lord" does not constitute "Changing the subject", it's just showing how Trinitarian spin found its way into many translations. The word for "Call upon", unlike Hebrew, can simply be used for "designating" as well as "call upon". Gramatically, it's not correct to say "Those who call upon the name of the Lord of us of Jesus Christ."

The fact of the matter is Romans 10:13 is talking about Jesus Christ, Yahweh!

[FONT=&quot]First off, the point is not that Romans 10 is talking about Yeshua or according to you the Father, because if we take the whole bible in context we see its Yeshua(Acts 4:12!) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

Anyone reading Romans 10 can clearly see without knowing anything else about the bible, like yourself that its talking about Yeshua!

Rom 10:1-16
(1) Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
(2) For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
(3) For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
(4) For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
(5) For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
(6) But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
(7) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
(8) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[/FONT][FONT=&quot](9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
(10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
(11) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
(12) For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot](13) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
(14) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they [/FONT][FONT=&quot]believe [/FONT][FONT=&quot]in him of whom they have not heard[/FONT][FONT=&quot]? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
(15) And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
(16) But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

Hmm, this is definitely Yeshua in verse 13!!! Verse 9 says to confess with thy mouth Yeshua! Then what does verse 14 say, how can we believe on him in context of verse 13 if we have not heard? Who are we suppose to believe on?(Jn 3:16) Then if we take this in the context of the whole bible (Acts 4:12) it must [/FONT]

 

[American Patriot]

Romans 10:13 is talking about the LORD, not Jesus, it's the same kind of thing where you thought Rev 22:13 was Jesus talking directly, you had no idea it was an angel until recently.

Just like you didn't know that Revelation 22:13 was talking about Jesus until recently!Nor did you know Revelation 21:7 was either until recently!

 

[Shermana]

Just like you didn't know that Revelation 22:13 was talking about Jesus until recently!Nor did you know Revelation 21:7 was either until recently!

Just because you want it to be talking about Jesus doesn't make it so.

As Dirty Penguin showed even, the Angel is speaking a message from the Father, sent by Jesus.

And Revelation 21:7 is not talking about Jesus whatsoever.

You can ignore the logic and reasons all you want, but that won't change the facts.

I appreciate you showing Trinitarian cherry picking and ignoring context though.

 

[American Patriot]

Just because you want it to be talking about Jesus doesn't make it so.

As Dirty Penguin showed even, the Angel is speaking a message from the Father, sent by Jesus.

And Revelation 21:7 is not talking about Jesus whatsoever.

You can ignore the logic and reasons all you want, but that won't change the facts.

I appreciate you showing Trinitarian cherry picking and ignoring context though.

Hmm, cherry picking? I don't think so! But I love how you're changing the subject! If you want, we can change the subject just so we can prove its Jesus in revelation 21:7 again. See, I don't care what logic you present! I care about the word of God. Just like I just destroyed your belief system with the word of God about invoking another name besides Yahweh! If you try to say I didn't destroy what you said I will quote what you said again and put my post on how I proved you wrong!
Now if Your tired of getting beat on this topic lets discuss this... Btw It might help you to know I'm not Trinitarian, I'm Jesus only!

House of Yahweh and JW's have TWO of everything:

TWO KINGS
TWO FATHERS
TWO SPIRITS (actually three counting the Holy Ghost)
TWO SAVIORS
TWO CREATORS
TWO COMING
TWO JUDGES
TWO REWARDERS
TWO FIRST AND LASTS
TWO BEGINNING AND ENDS
TWO G/gods
TWO Lords
TWO MAKERS
TWO LIFE-GIVERS
TWO HOLY ONES, yes, TWO HOLY *** ONES *** :biglaugh:
TWO THRONES
TWO SEATED ON THE THRONES
TWO MIGHTY GODS (Ps 50:1, Is 9:6)
TWO ALMIGHTIES (Col 2:10) FYI, I am COMPLETE IN JESUS, why do I need another?
TWO THAT RAISED JESUS FROM THE DEAD

This is polytheism, paganism, and anti-scriptural. :yes:

I am a true monotheist, I believe in ONE of all the above. I worship Jesus!

24) Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, *** I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; ***

John 1:10
(10) *** He was in the world, and the world was made by him ***, and the world knew him not.

Col 1:16 ***For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: ***
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;


From the above, we can factually state the Word of God tells us:

1. God made ALL THINGS BY HIMSELF ALONE!
2. JESUS MADE ALL THINGS!
3. The solitary Maker was in the World, and in context, John tells us this is JESUS CHRIST!
4. Either the BIBLE IS IN ERROR OR JESUS IS YAHWEH GOD! We believe the latter.
5. John 1:1 is correctly interpreted as “God”!
6. House of Yahweh and JW's have a real problem here. :yes:


Hey Shermana, were' still waiting for you to answer ONE single point of ours.
Since you refuse, we will accept your defeat. :ko: