esmith
Veteran Member
No you and others voted for Hillary and not Trump, you did not elect her. This is the first time I have every been considered privileged.....makes me feel good. Bwahahaha
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Did SJWs help create Trump?
- Thread starter MD
- Start date
The number of left wing extremists (i.e. Those who would use violence or advocate the use of violence to achieve their goals such as terrorism or forcibly overthrowing the government) is small to the point of being non-existent in the US and the western world. Far-left extremism and terrorism all but disappeared with the collapse of the USSR and the end of the Cold War, and the term "left" is being appropriated at increasingly centrist ideologies on the political spectrum such as liberalism.
The far right dramatically inflates the threat of "cultural marxism" to justify its policies as if they "protect western civilisation" from corrupting, dangerous or degenerate influences when it is actually the greater threat to the status quo- measured in statistical terms.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.ne...reat-america-isis-jihadists-422743.html?amp=1
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....-plots-overlooks-threat-from-far-right-report
I don't know if SJWs themselves "created" Trump. However, I do think years (if not decades) of the Left elite ignoring working class America and the big ways in which the DNC screwed up in this election had a part in it.
I'm sure the families of those slain Dallas police officers would disagree.
When I talk about left extremists, I'm talking in the context of modern American political parties, where both Republicans and Democrats have extremist fringes within their ranks. Obviously they are not the same as Communist Russia
buddhist
Well-Known Member
I agree. While the average working-class American was busy trying to mind their own business & maintain a semblance of a stable life for themselves and their families, the far left/Communists were instead focused on indoctrinating Americans on toilet rights, superficial body image, empowering criminals, esteeming modern "art" (trash), and open-door policies for terrorists.
The Democrats are barely left wing. Even Bernie Sanders only wanted Scandinavian style social democracy and that was considered radical. Obama couldn't even get universal public health care.
This idea that the Democrats are left wing enough to somehow be a threat to the American political system as "social justice warriors" is a dangerous fiction coming from polarisation. Its not real.
If you going to try and compare the death of a handul of police officers to the what self-identified left wing extremists have done- just take a step back and think about how disproportionate that is compared to the historical precedents. Even singular acts of terrorism do not compare to the ideological ambition of the precedents.
e.g. The Khmur Rouge in Cambodia
All I'm asking for is a little perspective because you will almost certianly share more in common with democrats and SJWs than you may first realise. The polarisation is a myth manufactured by the media as both sides in the US are ultimately are committed to freedom and democracy and would oppose actual left wing extremists with great ferocity.
Augustus
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The 'SJW' left hold the white working class pretty much in contempt. They will bend over backwards to excuse intolerance, as long as it is intolerance performed by a 'persecuted' group. The only group not allowed to have an identity is the white working class.
They also lack any sense of scale and cry wolf too frequently. When someone who mere lacks understanding of the finer points of liberal PC etiquette is labelled as racist, this makes it much harder to call out the actual racists and bigots.
This is more the icing on the cake than the substance behind the rise of Trump and the right though.
The main problem is that reality has caught up with ideology. The ideology of liberal globalisation has failed large sectors of society and you can't keep telling people things that don't match the reality in which they are living.
The disconnect between the working class voters and cosmopolitan liberals has been growing for a long time.
While the elite tends to support and benefit from globalisation and multiculturalism, the social harms are borne by the working class. People who can afford to isolate themselves from the problems use the issues to signal how virtuous and tolerant they are, then compound this by labelling as 'racist' and ignorant anybody who thinks differently.
This is really more of a centre-left/centre-right issue than a purely partisan one. Their ideologies lost the war with reality, and as of yet they don't seem to have accepted this fact. Blaming fake news, FBI directors and Russian hackers is a comfort blanket, but isn't going to make them more electable.
They have subscribed to the myth that ultimately all educated and reasonable people should agree with their values. Those who disagree must therefore be stupid or unreasonable.
What is truly unreasonable though is their myth of inevitable liberal progress towards a society comprised of people exactly like themselves.
First off, I am a Democrat. I'm also objective enough to recognize that Democrats have a growing fringe element in their party that certainly didn't do us any favors.
Secondly, I don't believe I'm the one who needs to gain any perspective because I'm talking about politics in the context of my country (USA), not other countries around the world. Right and Left Wings of other countries make our Right and Left look like Disneyland by comparison. However, this thread and this forum is specifically for North American politics, not world politics.
I'm not even sure how outside countries politics are relevant in this discussion, but I'm not interested in moving goalposts to include outside countries when talking about a growing fringe element in our Democratic party. I'm also not interested in downplaying them as being non-existent, because that's quite frankly, just not true.
Augustus
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I'd say the rise of Trump, Brexit, Le Penn, etc. are ultimately different manifestations of the same problem - liberal ideology losing the war with reality.
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Really? Which communist terrorists would these be? Any individuals or groups come to mind?
Also, how can "communists terrorists" (or anyone for that matter) be xenophobes & xenophiles at the same time?
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First off, my apologies if my previous responses were heated. I had to take a walk to calm down and work up to giving you a decent response. I want to be rational and productive but its become increasingly difficult to do.
The problem is how Americans have gone from redefining what it means to be "left" wing or "right" wing to starting to redefine what it means to be an "extremist" or "fringe" element.
I take issue with how a "them versus us" mentality has started to set in and in which a "fringe" element is being treated as a threat to the constitution and bill of rights etc, or "extremist" when the group that this label is being applied to will accept those institutions and agree with you on 90-95% of the issues.
As far as I am concerned, an "extremist" is someone who is willing to fill mass graves to achieve their objectives. Thats universal because it doesn't change for ideology or location in the world. The evidence of extremism, so defined is there for everyone to see. Just count the corpses.
When Americans start using the term "extremist" to refer to groups that they merely disagree with or haveheated exchanges with, that threatens to redraw the boundary about who can and cannot have "free speech" and individual rights. When that starts to happen, I am more than entitled to call out the "freedom is slavery" doublethink that goes on when we start equating mere disagreement with systematic violence.
What you call an "extremist" in America is literally a "disneyland" character by comparison with other countries or periods in history (and thats a nice way of putting it). I feel that the way the political language is changing on the forums within the past few months has become increasingly disturbing. The tone has changed and people are getting sucked into a narrative that treats a section of their own population- without defing the parameters for establishing who it is- as an enemy or a threat to their way of life. Thats witch hunt territory. Who is the "left" and how did we come to hate them so much? They aren't shooting people and instances of left-wing terrorism in the US are utterly dwarfed by Islamic or right-wing terrorism. So how did this threat come to be considered so important when there is so little evidence to support its existence when greater threats already exist?
Perspective is much needed to get you guys to step back and think about whats really important to you because you may well lose it unless you do. Your literally fighting phantoms here. thats not a rational conversation and its a really bad place for Americans to take it when the evidence is so weak that such a threat even exists.
I have yet to really be convinced that SJWs are a distinct thing. Certainly there are members of the socially progressive liberal sphere who are ignorant of the world, but this discrete phenomenon of SJWs seems like right-wing hyperbole.
All of these groups are still liberal.Their social policies may differ to some degree, but these are all liberals. Liberal democracy is the only game in town in our organised Western governments.
All of these groups are still liberal.Their social policies may differ to some degree, but these are all liberals. Liberal democracy is the only game in town in our organised Western governments.
They don't worry me at all.
I don't see the phenomenon posing a risk of spreading more than it has.
The bulk of'm being quite young, I see it as a phase to outgrow.
Augustus
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This is why subjects like this are hard to discuss in brief, terminology is hard to agree on and is pretty subjective.
The trend seems to be away from liberalism and towards a form of nativist, neo-mercantilist de-globalisation, and in some places a move towards authoritarianism (Russia, Turkey, etc.)
This is in opposition to the postWW2 trend of increasing globalisation and economic and political liberalism.
You're right, it is. Especially as in politics we are moving within very narrow confines. I'd agree with your assessment, but say that it still basically falls within economic liberalism.
You seem so balanced & zennie.
I want to be you when I grow up.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I don't think it "created" Trump, he was flamboyant all along, but all this ridiculous victim mentality and unrealistically "leveling the playing field" certainly plays a factor as it has gotton so out of hand it's ideology is not even in the realm of reality.
