Did you ever had NDE? Do you know anyone with NDE?

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

We should remember that the so called near death experience is just that, near, it is not death, so many make a big deal out of what they experience in this so called state, no, no one has ever experience death and come back.

You make a good point, semantically speaking.
The term 'near-death-experience' is often conflated with 'transcendental experience',
which involves travelling to the spirit world, whilst the body may or may not be 'technically dead'.

But after having traveled to the other side and come back on quite a few occasions,
I can only humbly disagree with your second point.

 

[psychoslice]

You make a good point, semantically speaking.
The term 'near-death-experience' is often conflated with 'transcendental experience',
which involves travelling to the spirit world, whilst the body may or may not be 'technically dead'.

But after having traveled to the other side and come back on quite a few occasions,
I can only humbly disagree with your second point.

But was it really just your imagination, I use to do that also, and yes I do have a good imagination.

 

[George-ananda]

no one has ever experience death and come back.

I disagree, some have come back in ghost form, communicated through mediums and yes I have even heard of physical materializations from top-notch sources. And then their children even that come back and tell of their last experience.

 

[psychoslice]

I disagree, some have come back in ghost form, communicated through mediums and yes I have even heard of physical materializations from top-notch sources. And then their children even that come back and tell of their last experience.

Mmmm, you know me, and children do have great imaginations.

 

[George-ananda]

Mmmm, you know me, and children do have great imaginations.

Mmm, you know me, I require verifiable details from children to be impressed.

For newcomers, a sample such impressive story: Shanti Devi

 

[psychoslice]

Mmm, you know me, I require verifiable details from children to be impressed.

For newcomers, a sample such impressive story: Shanti Devi

 

[George-ananda]

Seen it before. I really think it is a bad argument because he doesn't seem to have a working theory of the dualist view. He just seems to be stuck in the idea that consciousness comes from the brain. Brain damage effects the expression of consciousness but not the source of consciousness. With the brain out of the way consciousness is even fuller than through the brain (as reported in the NDE also).

 

[psychoslice]

Seen it before. I really think it is a bad argument because he doesn't seem to have a working theory of the dualist view. He just seems to be stuck in the idea that consciousness comes from the brain. Brain damage effects the expression of consciousness but not the source of consciousness. With the brain out of the way consciousness is even fuller than through the brain (as reported in the NDE also).

The Source of Consciousness is not the mind of the body, the mind body organism is nothing more than conditioning, the mind body is within Consciousness, nit the other way around. When the body dies, everything to do with the personality of the mind from that body no longer exist, the energy of the body is always there, but its only energy, the thoughts and memory are no longer there, just as much as a DVD with all of its information is no longer there when destroyed, the energy that made up the DVD is there, but again its only energy.

 

[George-ananda]

The Source of Consciousness is not the mind of the body, the mind body organism is nothing more than conditioning, the mind body is within Consciousness, nit the other way around. When the body dies, everything to do with the personality of the mind from that body no longer exist, the energy of the body is always there, but its only energy, the thoughts and memory are no longer there, just as much as a DVD with all of its information is no longer there when destroyed, the energy that made up the DVD is there, but again its only energy.

You are describing the materialist view that is refuted by much paranormal evidence including the NDE (for which the OP wishes to hear stories).

 

[psychoslice]

You are describing the materialist view that is refuted by much paranormal evidence including the NDE (for which the OP wishes to hear stories).

Well you can tell the stories, you better than i am at doing so, and evidence ?, I don't think so..

 

[Eliab ben Benjamin]

You are describing the materialist view that is refuted by much paranormal evidence including the NDE (for which the OP wishes to hear stories).

Yep the pedantic view of those who tell us it was the dying or oxygen starved brain ...
When we who experience it know it was a real oob or
nDE ..

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks...

Well as we can clearly see just from these few posts - this is a VERY common occurence - as said - every one of us does this quite naturally every time we rest deeply enough - seperates body and Soul in a natural cycle and begins to encounter the worlds of spirit.... Death is just a larger version of the same cycle - as above so below - always this holds as truth - spiritual existance IS the natural existnace - life within a physical body is the illusion..

Jonathan;

But after having traveled to the other side and come back on quite a few occasions,
I can only humbly disagree with your second point.

I found over the years that we cant really ever expect anyone who HASNT experienced this to truly understand it or appreciate it the way we do..It really is one of those things that has to be directly experienced - Gnosis is the aim of the game Folks - living truth of Self..The difference in understanding - is like the difference in learning HOW to drive a car for example - compared to ACTUALLY getting in and driving it directly.. The external knowledge - academic wisdom of the things we learn - pales and is truly insignificant compared to the direct understanding that the EXPERIENCE itself provides...We can learn lots and lots about driving cars - but it wont do any good until we get in and drive have that EXPERIENCE...So too for spiritual phenomena - we can discuss it al day long - yet it remains always a personal revelation of direct truth and we cant really expect others to appreciate that truth without experiencing it directly themselves...

Psychoslice;

But was it really just your imagination, I use to do that also, and yes I do have a good imagination.

Hmm - I knew someone would say this - which is why I said above that things happen often that are OUT OF OUR CONTROL here in the real world - and yet the events fully support corroborate and guarnantee that the spiritual revelation is authentic....As said - personally - I have had MANY instances of "deja vous" type experiences - where ACTUAL entities that Iam directly speaking with in spirit have shown me directly the ACTUAL "future" - and that future then played out EXACTLY as they showed it to be - like WORD BY WORD CONVERSATIONS and situations revealed PERFECTLY - and often times this is not a "quick" thing - like the spiritual event may happen today for example - yet the physical proof may not manifest for months or even years to come - and there is NO WAY could I know the future like that really - is there..?...Not by NORMAL means - and so whatever whoever Iam speaking with is fully capable of stepping OUTSIDE of OUR time and space - and so by definition that IS a bona fide spiritual revelation as the event then ACTUALLY HAPPENS as predicted.... Seems bizarre I know - but if you ever had it happen you would trust it fully and implicitly - beyond any doubt at all...

Indeed - TRUST - ACCEPTANCE - these are crucial keys to this phenomena - we ARE a SELF CREATED BEING Folks...When we learn this Self truth and indeed begin to TRUST our Self - then it is literally like a "new Presence of Mind"...What I mean is - where once I needed to prepare, meditate deeply for long time - and perhaps some results more often not though - but perseverance - train the mind - TRUST the truth of Self revealed - and this connection, ability can become almost EVER PRESENT....It is our NATURAK condition - the WHOLE Mind accessed and utilised here in the mundane world - it is not "spiritual" as such, as there is no ACTUAL seperation of these realities at all - it is NATURAL once this truth is realised - NO SEPERATION EVER - we are ALWAYS "spirit"... when we TRUST this foundation truth of Self then such adventures out of body are to be EXPECTED and WILL DEFINATELY HAPPEN - for as said they are ALREADY happening to us all every time we rest - either known and Conscious or in blissful sleeping ignorance..

Spirit ALWAYS surrounds us - rest the mortal mind suffiiciently enough - stop that constant babbling chattering surface nonesense - and you will (all) glimpse spiritual realitty directly.. There is a "gateway" deep within the mind that once opened may allow this direct access, and "invites" the Soul to take residence HERE in life also...This becomes easier and easier to attain the more the process is TRUSTED and ALLOWED...I cant help thinking of my mate Christ here who actually came to reveal this truth directly - proved it to the world by attaining complete Self mastery for all to see directly and TOLD us directly how to attain it for the Self too...It IS all about the Mind and this deep DEEP Sacred Gateway. - the NARROW gate that not many seek for and that is hard to find - take THIS path always He said for it leads to ETERNAL LIFE as the mortal; mind finds and encounters its own Eternal nature - therefore His first advise always was to come to KNOW THY SELF - fully and completely - when we do this He said - EXPECT to gain DIRECT access to the Heavenly realms He said - for sure Angels and Prophets WILL come to give you aid He PROMISES it clearly - EXPECT IT He said, seek it always - come to this truth of Self BEFORE the mortal body dies and thus you have "saved" your own Self..

The gateway in the mind is THRUST open with such things as physical trauma - like an escape hatch - the Soul prepares to leave the body PERMANANTLY if it becomes too compromised - and so the NDE occurs quite naturally - the Soul PARTLY leaves the body - inhabits a reality that is none physical, yet anchored firmly HERE as yet in the mundane physical world....A reality we have termed ASTRAL - it has several distinct "layers" - arranged in sets of SEVEN always - and the first few such plateaus are EASY to attain , we do so every night we dream...The degree of seperation in an NDE is the SAME process - but can vary greatly of course - and the more severe the trauma the more the Soul will naturally move into the deeper layers and so the experience will change accordingly....Most NDES have elements that are both physical and purely spiritual as the Soul is traversing the low or shallow astral realms. anchored still to a perhaps dying body and so physically unable to progress too deep yet - if the body is revived sufficiently then the seperation halts, Soul returns to its anchor point - life resumes..... Whether the individual is conscious of or remembers any of this when back in the miundane world will always be deterrnined by their state of Self awareness and the things they ALLOW to dominate their reality...This is also reflected in the way the experience unfolds - often over a period of years and years as for my nephew Steve - the Self perspecctive changes - things once ignored get re examined by the deep Mind - new Self awareness is adopted - and so spiritual progress always happens.. ALWAYS - a SELF CREATED BEING !!

Dont (anyone) be fooled into thinking its an "illusion" or a "dream" or just plain nonesense - for it is none of those things ...The things we call "dreams" are themselves SPIRITUAL in nature - we DO access these low "astral realms" all the time - ndes and the other forms of stes - are the Soul moving deeper for whatever reason, either physical trauma circumstance or mental intended journey - the astral reality is the natural and FOUONDATIONAL reality - and it is to that state we return once free from this mortal prison..

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Psychoslice;

The Source of Consciousness is not the mind of the body, the mind body organism is nothing more than conditioning, the mind body is within Consciousness, nit the other way around. When the body dies, everything to do with the personality of the mind from that body no longer exist, the energy of the body is always there, but its only energy, the thoughts and memory are no longer there, just as much as a DVD with all of its information is no longer there when destroyed, the energy that made up the DVD is there, but again its only energy.

Ah so close to how I know it to be - yet so different also - like if you could just chang the approach a few degrees here and you would for sure realise the path Home Its all about SELF AWARENESS - coming to a state of FULL and COMPLETE OMNISCIENT SENTIENT MIND !!

For a none experiencer - none believer - athiest type mind - that entire statement above is absolutely ACCURATE and undeniable.....YES we WILL "forget our Self" - may be COMPLETELY so - BUT - this only happens because the transition life to death is so SHOCKING - UNEXPECTED - that it baffles the Mind and confuses the Soul greatly.....I stress it again - WE ARE ALWAYS A SELF CREATED BEING - what we hold as a foundational truth of Self WILL BE CREATED as the solid and EXPERENTIAL "living reality" !!!

This creation process is truly KARMA - legitimate, universal, UNSTOPPABLE - Sentient mind CREATES that which it conceives it Self to BE - it forms a symbolic representation of Self - builds a MODEL for lack of a better term - a BODY FORM - which it then inhabits and "identifies" as a reflection of Self Awareness....Souol uses these bodies to explore the aspects of Self THROUGH the process of life.....This cycle continues with each new life experience adding to the overall Self realisation until eventually that Soul comes to INHERATNLTY know and understand that is it ACTUALLY DOING THIS - it becomes "enlightened" through repeated exporation of its own NATURE and physical life is the tool to accomplish this endeavour.. There is ALWAYS spiritual progress - it is unavoidable - just by Being alive here and EXPERIENCING the Self directly thus the truth is uncovered always...

So - the progress may be slow - ISOLATED and INDIVIDUAL Mind - identifies fully (at first) with its ISOLATED and INDIVIDUAL life circumstance...LITERALLY - the Mind of the athiest none experiencer is anchored HERE in the uindane world and this single mortal life becomes its whole FOUNDATIONAL TRUTH.....Such a one is "ignorant" of Self as yet in life - but upon DEATH - that mind is going to become FREE - and is going to now experience it Self AS ENERGY - NOT as a human Being - but as a SPIRIT BEING...The ETERNAL energetic nature remains - just as you say - but the ONLY reason the rest is dropped is simply because the Mind cannot handle this new state at all - totally foreign to it as in life it NEVER allowed such things to have truth.. The Mind will be so confused that it will - quite naturally -CLING TO ITS FOUNDATION - and so we see clearly - such a One will have no choice - their own Mind and Self understanding will quite literally TRAP them here in the lower realm AGAIN - as Mind clings to Self foundational truth - and that truth is a truth of existance AS A MORTAL HUMAN BEING - and so see - KARMA - the unstoppable natural talent to Create - WILL INDEED CREATE that which the mind BELIEVED it Self to Be - and that One will once again CREATE A HUMAN LIFE - REINCARNATE AGAIN here AS a mortal human.....

And so the cycle continues - the Soul goes round again - life experience uncovers some more hints of eternal truth gleaned from the new life - death is faced again - perhaps this time the Soul is not SO confused - it may attain "heaven" its idea of an "afterlife" - it may take a pause to Self reflect - but eventually - UNSTOPPABLE KARMA will once again CREATE that which the Soul holds as FOUNDATIONAL truth of Self..

Round and round - until eventually the Soul gets to a life stage where it KNOWS the mortal temporary life is an ILLUSION - and the direct experience OF life has shown that to be truth - so the Soul - finally - is ready to leave these low realms behind altogether ( if it CHOOSES now) - for it is ALWAYS A SELF CREATED BEING - and so the only way to accomplish this progress IS to do just as Christ advised - KNOW THY SELF - fully and completely - take control over your personal Self Creation - INTEND to become the Divine - INTEND to encounter the SOURCE of All-That-Is....ALWAYS there is progress toward this final destination - the complete and fully omniscient MIND that CAUSES all existance, all Creation - we are ALWAYS a part of that - life - reincarnation - is the process of Self remembering - Self Becoming....

As He sad - I and my Father are One - those who discover my truth shall BECOME as Me - I my Self shall BECOME them and all Divine Mystery shall be revealed - as always - for those with ears to hear...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yep the pedantic view of those who tell us it was the dying or oxygen starved brain ...
When we who experience it know it was a real oob or
nDE ..

Frankly, I don't think you're in a position to know. I can't think of a less reliable witness than a person who is in the midst of actually dying.

You may be the only one able to report the sensations you experienced, but anyone can make inferences of causes from those sensations.

 

[Ana.J]

Hi Folks..

Psychoslice;

Ah so close to how I know it to be - yet so different also - like if you could just chang the approach a few degrees here and you would for sure realise the path Home Its all about SELF AWARENESS - coming to a state of FULL and COMPLETE OMNISCIENT SENTIENT MIND !!

For a none experiencer - none believer - athiest type mind - that entire statement above is absolutely ACCURATE and undeniable.....YES we WILL "forget our Self" - may be COMPLETELY so - BUT - this only happens because the transition life to death is so SHOCKING - UNEXPECTED - that it baffles the Mind and confuses the Soul greatly.....I stress it again - WE ARE ALWAYS A SELF CREATED BEING - what we hold as a foundational truth of Self WILL BE CREATED as the solid and EXPERENTIAL "living reality" !!!

This creation process is truly KARMA - legitimate, universal, UNSTOPPABLE - Sentient mind CREATES that which it conceives it Self to BE - it forms a symbolic representation of Self - builds a MODEL for lack of a better term - a BODY FORM - which it then inhabits and "identifies" as a reflection of Self Awareness....Souol uses these bodies to explore the aspects of Self THROUGH the process of life.....This cycle continues with each new life experience adding to the overall Self realisation until eventually that Soul comes to INHERATNLTY know and understand that is it ACTUALLY DOING THIS - it becomes "enlightened" through repeated exporation of its own NATURE and physical life is the tool to accomplish this endeavour.. There is ALWAYS spiritual progress - it is unavoidable - just by Being alive here and EXPERIENCING the Self directly thus the truth is uncovered always...

So - the progress may be slow - ISOLATED and INDIVIDUAL Mind - identifies fully (at first) with its ISOLATED and INDIVIDUAL life circumstance...LITERALLY - the Mind of the athiest none experiencer is anchored HERE in the uindane world and this single mortal life becomes its whole FOUNDATIONAL TRUTH.....Such a one is "ignorant" of Self as yet in life - but upon DEATH - that mind is going to become FREE - and is going to now experience it Self AS ENERGY - NOT as a human Being - but as a SPIRIT BEING...The ETERNAL energetic nature remains - just as you say - but the ONLY reason the rest is dropped is simply because the Mind cannot handle this new state at all - totally foreign to it as in life it NEVER allowed such things to have truth.. The Mind will be so confused that it will - quite naturally -CLING TO ITS FOUNDATION - and so we see clearly - such a One will have no choice - their own Mind and Self understanding will quite literally TRAP them here in the lower realm AGAIN - as Mind clings to Self foundational truth - and that truth is a truth of existance AS A MORTAL HUMAN BEING - and so see - KARMA - the unstoppable natural talent to Create - WILL INDEED CREATE that which the mind BELIEVED it Self to Be - and that One will once again CREATE A HUMAN LIFE - REINCARNATE AGAIN here AS a mortal human.....

And so the cycle continues - the Soul goes round again - life experience uncovers some more hints of eternal truth gleaned from the new life - death is faced again - perhaps this time the Soul is not SO confused - it may attain "heaven" its idea of an "afterlife" - it may take a pause to Self reflect - but eventually - UNSTOPPABLE KARMA will once again CREATE that which the Soul holds as FOUNDATIONAL truth of Self..

Round and round - until eventually the Soul gets to a life stage where it KNOWS the mortal temporary life is an ILLUSION - and the direct experience OF life has shown that to be truth - so the Soul - finally - is ready to leave these low realms behind altogether ( if it CHOOSES now) - for it is ALWAYS A SELF CREATED BEING - and so the only way to accomplish this progress IS to do just as Christ advised - KNOW THY SELF - fully and completely - take control over your personal Self Creation - INTEND to become the Divine - INTEND to encounter the SOURCE of All-That-Is....ALWAYS there is progress toward this final destination - the complete and fully omniscient MIND that CAUSES all existance, all Creation - we are ALWAYS a part of that - life - reincarnation - is the process of Self remembering - Self Becoming....

As He sad - I and my Father are One - those who discover my truth shall BECOME as Me - I my Self shall BECOME them and all Divine Mystery shall be revealed - as always - for those with ears to hear...

Pete, you amaze me. May I ask you how fast do you type?

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks...

Ana; Hmm - I amaze you..??...is that a good thing or a bad thing though..??...lol....Hope its in a good way - hope it gets you (all) thinking

My typing - I must apologise for - sometimes - that gateway I speak of - must kind of get stuck wide open and it just comes flooding through - the amount of typos first time round is what is really amazing..lol...but I do go back and correct most of them..lol....but hey - bare with me - Im a typical guy - lazy if I can get away with it....lol...

 

[YmirGF]

Hi Folks...

Ana; Hmm - I amaze you..??...is that a good thing or a bad thing though..??...lol....Hope its in a good way - hope it gets you (all) thinking

My typing - I must apologise for - sometimes - that gateway I speak of - must kind of get stuck wide open and it just comes flooding through - the amount of typos first time round is what is really amazing..lol...but I do go back and correct most of them..lol....but hey - bare with me - Im a typical guy - lazy if I can get away with it....lol...

It's getting very late (again) so I will keep this short. @PeteC-UK I'm a bit astonished at how well a few of our ideas sync up, but am also keenly aware of how different other views are. Then again, you are a self-described "gnostic christian" so I suppose the religious/spiritual baggage is somewhat inevitable. Amusingly, some time ago I used to refer to myself as a "disintegrated neo-gnostic". It is a play on words that fits me rather well, however I no longer use the term and never meant if terribly seriously. I guess what I'm trying to say is that when one strips away all the religious/spiritual mumbo jumbo what is left is some genuine quality content. Have you ever given serious thought to outlining your thinking in non-religious/spiritual terms?

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Ymir; Ah yes my friend - religious spiritual baggage - somewhat inevitable...lol...

I dont ACTUALLY like to present this as "religious" - Id much rather have you all put the religions away - no longer needed even - the other forum we mention above was much more - of a wide approach - religion was tolerated (somewhat) there but it was never the main focus - for my Self it made posting easier..lol as I say some pretty contentious things about the religions at times - as did my mate Christ... This though is my everyday life moment to moment experience of Self - and when Im here in the real world I am very open about my spirituality - but of course need to present the Self in a way the others can comprehend...Religion is a no no in my every day life - borderline on the very edge of mainstream society and that which we term the underworld - nobody in my world gives a hoot about religion or "god" - not much - not until something extraordinary happens and makes them look close... But as I say it is my living truth - and I cant be false or two faced about it with them - So I may speak of this many different ways depending what is apropriate - to those in my every day life it becomes something like "jedi powers" or "true magik" or some such culturally accepted thing, something they can follow - I speak openly of metaphysical truth kundalini chakras and the like, described as these other "cultural aspects" from popular culture as these things are acceptable - but to speak of "god" or religion here would soon have me ostrasised and ridiculed.. The thing with religion I fnd - people dont like it because it is ALWAYS FORCED UPON US - and people in my world dont allow themselves to be forced into anything much - so, the spiritual approach and presentation changes accordingly but the truth remains the truth always and is never compromised...

Here though the main focus IS religion itself - all of them - and they ARE all related of course as they all deal with SPIRIT..lol...So - here I must present my views in context of that which the threads present - normally a religious topic - and so I must tailor my responses to that viewpoint and mindset if I wish to be understood by them..There is a LOT of religious baggage to be discarded by a great many - in terms of western religion we have been fully duped and misled Im afraid - the western religions contain only bare traces now of legitimate SPIRITUAL truth and the religions become so indoctrinated - exactly like brain washng actually - until no other viewpoint is even considered....To the gnostic mind the religion is a trap and a direct hinderance - an obstacle to avoid - dismantle it so that it doesnt hinder any other Souls..

Gnostic Christian - But I dont mean that in any kind of "religious" sense...Indeed - there is NO SUCH THING as a "gnostic religion" - as explained elsewhere in depth by me, such a concept totally negates the very idea of "gnosis"...lol..there could NEVER be a gnostic religon at all - absured really.....Also - Christ - NOT RELIGIOUS - check out His ORIGINAL truth before the religion hijacked it and we see clearly there, He will turn us AWAY from the temple and priest ALWAYS and replace that truth with new truth of an INNER and IMMEDIATE living Divinity that we all ALREADY contain..

SPIRITUAL aspect though - that is TRULY unavoidable - as literally EVERYTHING IS SPIRIT lol...Everything is ENERGY, yes..?...But, to my understanding the energy itself is CONSCIOUSNESS - is Self aware - is a REFLECTION of a Self Aware MIND - and in its original condition that Mind is fully omnipresent and omniscient of literally ALL-THAT-IS - my Father is EVERYWHERE at ALL TIMES and His Spirit is truly unavoidable - IN Him we have OUR BEING - a part of that greater Divine truth always - the religion really does a poor job explaining this - confuses the masses no end which is why this world is so crazy now, divided and confrontational - there is only ONE Divine Spirit - yet many many confusing contradictory religions - its much MUCH better then - obviously - to do as Christ advised and avoid all that religious malarky altogether - if we can - and instead - seek the Divine for the Self - as a personal communion always

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

But was it really just your imagination, I use to do that also, and yes I do have a good imagination.

How can you just assume it was not real on the basis of a few sentences?
If you were pondering it clearly and openly, you would have asked me to prove it,
rather than just claiming it to be not real without giving much reason.

You had non-real imaginative experiences, therefor you assume my experiences are the same as yours.
That amounts to
"If my evaluation is wrong, then your evaluation is wrong?"

Yes, often it is tricky to discern the real from the imaginative.

 

[psychoslice]

How can you just assume it was not real on the basis of a few sentences?
If you were pondering it clearly and openly, you would have asked me to prove it,
rather than just claiming it to be not real without giving much reason.

You had non-real imaginative experiences, therefor you assume my experiences are the same as yours.
That amounts to
"If my evaluation is wrong, then your evaluation is wrong?"

Yes, often it is tricky to discern the real from the imaginative.

Death is death, no one ever survived it, many have gone close but never have they crossed the line. In this so called near death all sorts of things are going on in your brain, just as it does in mine when having a psychosis experience. If you are a Christian your experience would be based on that, if you are a Hindu, the same, if there was something true after NDE, then all experiences would be the same.