Didn't Satan Give Us Freewill?

[URAVIP2ME]

"The Bible's been grossly mistranslated"
Heathen Hammer 2012:1.31

Grossly mistranslated or grossly mis-taught by clergy ?

The religious leaders of Jesus day were mis-teaching Scripture in favor of their own religious traditions or customs that is why Jesus pronounced many 'woes' against them along with his reasons why for pronouncing those 'woes' listed at Matthew chapter 23. [Mark 7vs1-7,13; Mt 15v9]

So, it should come as No surprise that modern-day clergy do the same.
That does Not make translated Scripture as wrong, but makes the religious teachings outside of Scripture as wrong. [Acts 20vs29,30]
There is a difference between recognizing minor mistakes that crept into copies of Bible text and dismissing the whole Bible as fabricated.

Propaganda teaches what to think
Education teaches how to think
Scripture teaches how best to serve God

Jesus is 'the end of the law'
[end of the temporary constitution of the Mosaic law]
- Romans 10v4.

Jesus taught how best to serve God by his 'Sermon on the Mount' and Jesus 'new commandment' to love others as he loved us.
[Matthew chapters 5-7; John 13 vs34,35].
What fault can be found with those teachings by Jesus?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Or about how a politician running on a platform of, say, Christian morality has multiple mistresses behind his wife's back.
Im not looking for holes, Im pointing the holes that already are there, out to you who delight in falling headfirst into them. You cannot blame me for the bad writing in the Bible, as much as you'd like to. Another great moral failing of the bible: blame the other guy.

Adam's 'moral failing' came after Adam disobeyed God.
Adam tried to shift the blame 'to the other guy' by saying to God:
The woman that you 'God' gave me...' [Gen 3v12]

How about a politician not running?
When Jesus was offered the opportunity for political office Jesus declined according to John 6v15.
Jesus nor his first-century followers became involved between the issues of the day between the Jews and Romans but remained politically neutral.

Bad writing in the Bible, or rather more like bad teaching outside of what the Bible really teaches?

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Grossly mistranslated or grossly mis-taught by clergy ?

The religious leaders of Jesus day were mis-teaching Scripture in favor of their own religious traditions or customs that is why Jesus pronounced many 'woes' against them along with his reasons why for pronouncing those 'woes' listed at Matthew chapter 23. [Mark 7vs1-7,13; Mt 15v9]

So, it should come as No surprise that modern-day clergy do the same.
That does Not make translated Scripture as wrong, but makes the religious teachings outside of Scripture as wrong.

Actually, it does make it wrong. Your God couldn't chose capable guardians of his most important doctrines that EVERYone needs or risks their immortal souls and takes away God's own desired outcome that all be saved? Yeah, no. It's junk.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Adam's 'moral failing' came after Adam disobeyed God.
Adam tried to shift the blame 'to the other guy' by saying to God:
The woman that you 'God' gave me...' [Gen 3v12]

How about a politician not running?
When Jesus was offered the opportunity for political office Jesus declined according to John 6v15.
Jesus nor his first-century followers became involved between the issues of the day between the Jews and Romans but remained politically neutral.

Bad writing in the Bible, or rather more like bad teaching outside of what the Bible really teaches?

Any excuse but the real cause.

 

[idav]

this illustrates how the satan was merely selling the idea to Eve...he made her believe that she would be better off if she ate the fruit, and by considering that she formed a desire for it. But she didnt have the desire before satan enticed her.

So we don't have the freewill to choose as we are only choosing due to influence. Just like the idea of Jesus having the potential to sin, Eve needs the desire of it or it wasn't a sin to begin with otherwise there is no freewill. Satans the only one with free will?

 

[Pegg]

So we don't have the freewill to choose as we are only choosing due to influence. Just like the idea of Jesus having the potential to sin, Eve needs the desire of it or it wasn't a sin to begin with otherwise there is no freewill. Satans the only one with free will?

james 1:14 But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death

notice in the above scripture that the wrong desire is a sin .... it begins in the mind. Then acting on that desire 'accomplishes sin' and in turn brings forth death.

So we do have 'free will' . We dont have to act on what we know is wrong, we can choose not to act on a wrong desire. That is free will.

 

[nnmartin]

IYou cannot blame me for the bad writing in the Bible, as much as you'd like to. Another great moral failing of the bible: blame the other guy.

What is this 'blame the other guy'? ,

can you give an example of this from the Bible as it could be interesting to discuss

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Actually, it does make it wrong. Your God couldn't chose capable guardians of his most important doctrines that EVERYone needs or risks their immortal souls and takes away God's own desired outcome that all be saved? Yeah, no. It's junk.

HH-
I don't think I was clear enough about 1st John 1v7.
Please notice the word 'if'.
'If' we are walking in the light we do have a sharing with one another and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin.

God desires 'all' be saved in connection to: repenting.
Please notice [2nd Peter 3v9] that God does Not desire [want] any to be destroyed but desires [wants] 'all' to attain repentance.

Please also note there is No such thing as an immortal soul.
The 'biblical soul' is the person himself.
Adam did not posses or come to have a soul but Adam was a soul.
Adam became a living soul after receiving the breath of like [Gen 2v7]
When Adam died he became a dead soul, a lifeless soul.

The immortal do Not need a resurrection do they?
'Not need a resurrection' because the immortal are death proof.
Nothing immortal dies hence the immortal [live forever] can't die.
Even Satan is not immortal because Jesus will destroy Satan. [Heb 2v14 B]

Wasn't Jesus 'a capable guardian' of God's doctrines?
What can you find wrong with Jesus teachings?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Any excuse but the real cause.

Real cause___________

 

[Daviso452]

So we do have 'free will' . We dont have to act on what we know is wrong, we can choose not to act on a wrong desire. That is free will.

A child is born and is brought up living in a basement. The father of the child gives him everything to make him happy; toys, board games, and training equipment to be fit if he wanted. There is a door to the outside, and the boy is told not to open it, because otherwise the boy will be punished.

The boy has never known pain. Punishment. He doesn't truly realize what the consequences would be for disobeying his father, because he has never experienced it.

Then, a person whom the boy has never met before appears outside of the door, and speaks through it, tempting the boy to open it. The boy decides to open it, and it is the father. The father then kicks his son out of the house and onto the streets.

God gave us free will. But was it fair what he did? Yes, they had the ability to choose, but was God justified? He created us; did he not know how we would turn out? But then God would not be all-knowing. Did he expect us to fall? If so, did he put Adam and Eve through that just to teach us a lesson?

 

[Pegg]

A child is born and is brought up living in a basement. The father of the child gives him everything to make him happy; toys, board games, and training equipment to be fit if he wanted. There is a door to the outside, and the boy is told not to open it, because otherwise the boy will be punished.

The boy has never known pain. Punishment. He doesn't truly realize what the consequences would be for disobeying his father, because he has never experienced it.

Then, a person whom the boy has never met before appears outside of the door, and speaks through it, tempting the boy to open it. The boy decides to open it, and it is the father. The father then kicks his son out of the house and onto the streets.

Adam is slightly different to the boy in your story. Adam knew that he would 'return to dust'
So Adam took the fruit knowing the consequences.

God gave us free will. But was it fair what he did? Yes, they had the ability to choose, but was God justified? He created us; did he not know how we would turn out? But then God would not be all-knowing. Did he expect us to fall? If so, did he put Adam and Eve through that just to teach us a lesson?

Would you rather the God made us without the ability to choose?
We have to have the ability to choose for the reason that God created us with intelligence....a mind like his. He wanted us to create things, to manage things, to invent and explore....for this to be done requires that we have a thinking mind that can reason and develop interests...a mind that can make decisions.

God is all knowing. and he knows that millions of intelligent beings (angels) were already serving him faithfully and loyally and making the decision to remain obedient to him. He had no reason to doubt that Adam and Eve would not. Nor did he paint them with bad motives from the beginning of their creation. He saw them as they were then, as perfect physcial intelligent beings with every reason and capability of serving him in the capacity for which he set them.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Real cause___________

Oh, you want me to type it all out again.

No.

You may instead go back and read it again.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

HH-
I don't think I was clear enough about 1st John 1v7.
Please notice the word 'if'.
'If' we are walking in the light we do have a sharing with one another and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin.

God desires 'all' be saved in connection to: repenting.
Please notice [2nd Peter 3v9] that God does Not desire [want] any to be destroyed but desires [wants] 'all' to attain repentance.

Please also note there is No such thing as an immortal soul.
The 'biblical soul' is the person himself.
Adam did not posses or come to have a soul but Adam was a soul.
Adam became a living soul after receiving the breath of like [Gen 2v7]
When Adam died he became a dead soul, a lifeless soul.

The immortal do Not need a resurrection do they?
'Not need a resurrection' because the immortal are death proof.
Nothing immortal dies hence the immortal [live forever] can't die.
Even Satan is not immortal because Jesus will destroy Satan. [Heb 2v14 B]

Wasn't Jesus 'a capable guardian' of God's doctrines?
What can you find wrong with Jesus teachings?

Long and irrelevant to what I just posted there. Also a vast redefining of Biblical meaning. Just sayin'.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

What is this 'blame the other guy'? ,

can you give an example of this from the Bible as it could be interesting to discuss

Blame Adam for Original Sin
Blame Satan as being the Serpent [blatantly incorrect in the text, but..]
Blame man for being imperfect

etc etc
So I gave you examples. Please react to same.
Oh! And let us not forget the ironic one: blaming me for the Bible's bad writing. Go ahead, shoot the messenger.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Adam is slightly different to the boy in your story. Adam knew that he would 'return to dust'
So Adam took the fruit knowing the consequences.

Pegg, his example showed how Adam DIDN'T know any such thing. *sigh*

 

[Pegg]

Pegg, his example showed how Adam DIDN'T know any such thing. *sigh*

lol .

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Ay carumba!

 

[nnmartin]

Blame Adam for Original Sin
Blame Satan as being the Serpent [blatantly incorrect in the text, but..]
Blame man for being imperfect

etc etc
So I gave you examples. Please react to same.
Oh! And let us not forget the ironic one: blaming me for the Bible's bad writing. Go ahead, shoot the messenger.

I thought you were talking about the philosophy of Christianity.

This 'blame the other guy' idea that you are talking about here is just a debate over semantics.

so I am out of this minor discussion because

Meanings, allegories and the like yes, semantics no.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

lol, you guys now run to 'it's just semantics!' as if this erases the obvious truth in what I am pointing out.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

It's all just semantics!