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Didn't Satan Give Us Freewill?

Gjallarhorn

Gjallarhorn

N'yog-Sothep
URAVIP2ME said:
Adam and Eve were Not created as 2 yr olds.
Adam and the woman Eve were created as marriage-age adults.
-Gen. 2vs23,24
Click to expand...
Two ways I could respond to this:

1. They were just created and had no knowledge of good and evil. Despite whatever their outward appearance was, they had less experience and knowledge than a two year old.

2. Any human, no matter how old, is child-like when compared to God.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Gjallarhorn said:
Two ways I could respond to this:
1. They were just created and had no knowledge of good and evil. Despite whatever their outward appearance was, they had less experience and knowledge than a two year old.
2. Any human, no matter how old, is child-like when compared to God.
Click to expand...

What is your input about Adam naming the animals at Genesis [2vs19,20] ?

Didn't Eve's reply at Genesis [3vs2,3] show mature understanding?
 
Gjallarhorn

Gjallarhorn

N'yog-Sothep
URAVIP2ME said:
What is your input about Adam naming the animals at Genesis [2vs19,20] ?

Didn't Eve's reply at Genesis [3vs2,3] show mature understanding?
Click to expand...
Naming animals is a sign of experience and knowledge? They didn't learn their names. They were assigning them names. Children do it all the time.

As for Eve's reply, again, ever heard a kid parrot the rules their parents make? She didn't show any critical thinking, and she readily accepted the words of the serpent as fact. Very childish.
 
F

fishy

Active Member
URAVIP2ME said:
Adam and Eve were Not created as 2 yr olds.
Adam and the woman Eve were created as marriage-age adults.
-Gen. 2vs23,24
Click to expand...
An adult is someone who has lived for 20yrs or so, experiencing and learning many things in that time. A body just zapped into existence, even if made to look like Methuselah has not had the experience and knowledge that make someone an adult.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
fishy said:
An adult is someone who has lived for 20yrs or so, experiencing and learning many things in that time. A body just zapped into existence, even if made to look like Methuselah has not had the experience and knowledge that make someone an adult.
Click to expand...

Interesting how you mention 20+ years or so, because in Scripture often a person of experience was about 30. such as: when Jesus started his ministry.

There is nothing to Indicate that Eve was created at the same time as Adam.
Thinking of names for the animals could involve also thinking of their characteristics before applying a name to them.
Unlike a small child making up a name, in the Hebrew language often names had meanings attached.

Possible that Adam could have easily been 30 years old before Eve was created.
Also, we do not know how many years passed after Adam and Eve were married and before Eve sinned.
When Eve was created and sinned is a key that is missing in not knowing the day or hour of Matthew 24v36.
 
M

msiamcanadian

New Member
Wouldn't it stand to reason that since God asked Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit of the tree- that they had been given free will? If they hadn't, there would be no way for the snake to even tempt them- because God asked/told them not to.
 
SkepticThinker

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Shadow Wolf said:
If Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good and evil, how could they have chosen to obey or disobey if they had no knowledge to knowingly and willfully choose to disobey? Before the fall Adam and Eve only could live in accordance to God's will. But after the fall it become possible to choose to disobey and not worship on our own accord.
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This is exactly what I was going to say. :)
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
SkepticThinker said:
How do you know you're disobeying if you have no knowledge of good and evil? You can't really make an informed choice in that situation.
Click to expand...
  1. To know that you're disobeying does not require "knowledge of good and evil."
  2. It may very well be that the phrase in Genesis is misunderstood.
 
SkepticThinker

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
  1. To know that you're disobeying does not require "knowledge of good and evil."
  2. It may very well be that the phrase in Genesis is misunderstood.
Click to expand...
1. Why not? How could you know you are doing a good thing or an evil thing if you have no knowledge of such things? How could you know the difference between a good (right) choice and an evil (wrong) choice? They don't have the information to know the difference.
2. Sure, maybe.
 
M

msiamcanadian

New Member
Agree- knowledge of good or evil has nothing to do with it. Adam and Eve knew God- they knew he was their creator. He asked them not to do something- but they still went ahead and disobeyed him.
You know, as a reasonable person- that when your boss asks you to do something, you have to obey
 
SkepticThinker

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
Read this again ...
  1. To know that you're disobeying does not require "knowledge of good and evil."
... this time with comprehension.


:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
My, aren't we snarky.

How would you know that disobeying is bad? Or evil? Or wrong? How would you be able to exercise any kind of morality at all?

Maybe we're defining good and evil differently, though I thought I sort of mapped out what I'm talking about.
 
M

msiamcanadian

New Member
It's like when you were a child. You knew you had to listen to your parents when they said no. You didn't need them to tell you if it's evil, or good- you knew that they had authority over you
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
SkepticThinker said:
How would you know that disobeying is bad? Or evil? Or wrong? How would you be able to exercise any kind of morality at all?
Click to expand...

Good grief! When should I expect the "Thinker" part of @SkepticThinker to show up?

Let's review ...

You wrote:
SkepticThinker said:
How do you know you're disobeying if you have no knowledge of good and evil? You can't really make an informed choice in that situation.
Click to expand...
To which I responded:

Jayhawker Soule said:
  1. To know that you're disobeying does not require "knowledge of good and evil."
Click to expand...
Is that truly so hard for you to follow? Let me spell it out for you: as long as I can comprehend "obey" as "follow instruction(s)" I am able to know whether or not I am doing so, and I am able to know this irrespective of whether or not the instructions or the obedience can be reasonably deemed 'good' or 'evil.'

You slid effortlessly (and thoughtlessly) from ...
  • How do you know you're disobeying if you have no knowledge of good and evil?
to
  • How would you know that disobeying is bad?
... as if the two questions were the same. They are not.
 
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