Difference in moral thought between atheists and believers

[Revoltingest]

Except that most moral decisions are made deep within the brain BEFORE the cerebral cortex activates. IOW, our moral decisions are NOT consciously reasoned out in most cases. They are instinctual.

I find otherwise. Moral decisions for me typically
involve ethical considerations that must be addressed
consciously, eg, disputes, which involve considering
the law, circumstances, reaching settlement.
Simple things like not assaulting others & not stealing
aren't really decisions....just "deep within the brain"
orientations.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I find otherwise.

You can believe whatever you want. For me, I'll go with the MRI evidence.

 

[Revoltingest]

You can believe whatever you want.

Thank you for permission.

For me, I'll go with the MRI evidence.

What argument is the MRI machine making?
The posted article doesn't appear to support
your claim about the process for making
moral decisions.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Except that most moral decisions are made deep within the brain BEFORE the cerebral cortex activates. IOW, our moral decisions are NOT consciously reasoned out in most cases. They are instinctual.

Everyone has biases, which is an instinctual survival trait that allows us to quickly execute pattern recognition. But that same trait has a *lot* of false positives, because it's better for survival if you mistake a bunch of grass for a tiger and run than mistake a tiger for a bunch of grass and get eaten.

That's why critical thinking is a skill that has to be exercised, not a baseline you have. Lots of atheists think they're critical thinkers but still fall back on biases a lot, which is how you get a bunch of Dawkins followers who are misogynistic and transphobic.

Conversely lots of theists have the exact same parts of the brain light up when the question 'what do you think about...' and 'what does God think about...' Because they're interpreting the rules subconsciously to emphasize the biases they already have.

That's why, like the OP mentioned, I'm a fan of consequence driven morality. Because it requires you to externalities and recontextualize based on data. Data can still be interpreted with bias of course, but it at least forces you to think about more than your gut instinct or a rule. Both of which can be useful but also come with a ton of unnecessary assumptions.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Thank you for permission.

What argument is the MRI machine making?
The posted article doesn't appear to support
your claim about the process for making
moral decisions.

"The results suggest that, while people regularly reach the same conclusions when faced with uncomfortable moral choices, their answers often do not grow out of the reasoned application of general moral principles. Instead, they draw on emotional reactions, particularly for certain kinds of moral dilemmas."

Brain imaging study sheds light on moral decision-making​

Princeton - News - Brain imaging study sheds light on moral decision-making

pr.princeton.edu

 

[Revoltingest]

"The results suggest that, while people regularly reach the same conclusions when faced with uncomfortable moral choices, their answers often do not grow out of the reasoned application of general moral principles. Instead, they draw on emotional reactions, particularly for certain kinds of moral dilemmas."

Brain imaging study sheds light on moral decision-making​

Princeton - News - Brain imaging study sheds light on moral decision-making

pr.princeton.edu

That is somewhat different from your claim.
It speaks to origins of values that people apply
in more complex situations faced in the
modern world.
Moreover, the fact that many people arrive at
the same conclusions doesn't prove that it's
all pre-ordained deep in the brain. Another
explanation is that reasoning from shared values
& interpretation of circumstances leads many to
the same conclusion. Thus, it needn't be as
automatic as you suggest.

 

[Heyo]

Except that most moral decisions are made deep within the brain BEFORE the cerebral cortex activates. IOW, our moral decisions are NOT consciously reasoned out in most cases. They are instinctual.

Ideally it is both. The rational and moral agent has thought about their moral compass and internalized the conclusions, so that the moral decision is made as fast as instinctual, without having to think about it in the moment.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

You don't know much about pre history do you?

According to the gtoly books the Abrahamic god did a fine job of genocide and murder.

Morals don’t apply to God

 

[Tinkerpeach]

Much more likely that morality came before civilisations - small groups and such - given the evidence coming from animal studies. Unless one goes the route of the God created humans and no relation to anything else view - which is nonsense.

I originally said society and yes that is where morality started. As soon as more than one person gathered.

 

[McBell]

Morals don’t apply to God

Why not?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Morals don’t apply to God

Says who?

So we can't say that a god that demands child sacrifice is an evil god?

 

[Tinkerpeach]

Says who?

So we can't say that a god that demands child sacrifice is an evil god?

You can say whatever you like but you cannot judge God and have it mean anything.

Maybe when you have the ability to create a universe your opinion might carry a little more weight.

Do you think the ants you slaughter by the thousands because they dare build a place to live in your backyard have the right to judge you?

And I tell you this, you are a lot closer to those ants than you are to God.

 

[McBell]

You can say whatever you like but you cannot judge God and have it mean anything.

I do and it does.
You may not like it, but then, who are you?

Maybe when you have the ability to create a universe your opinion might carry a little more weight.

I do not agree with the might makes right philosophy.

Do you think the ants you slaughter by the thousands because they dare build a place to live in your backyard have the right to judge you?

Sure do.
Not that it makes any difference.

And I tell you this, you are a lot closer to those ants than you are to God.

Perhaps that is because God fears His creation?

 

[Revoltingest]

Morals don’t apply to God

So it appears.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You can say whatever you like but you cannot judge God and have it mean anything.

Maybe when you have the ability to create a universe your opinion might carry a little more weight.

Do you think the ants you slaughter by the thousands because they dare build a place to live in your backyard have the right to judge you?

And I tell you this, you are a lot closer to those ants than you are to God.

Did you want to answer my question? If Molech demands child sacrifice, should we not judge him as evil simply because he is a god?

 

[McBell]

Morals don’t apply to God

Why not?

I suspect you do not want to hold God to His own morals simply because he would fail.

 

[Bear Wild]

"The results suggest that, while people regularly reach the same conclusions when faced with uncomfortable moral choices, their answers often do not grow out of the reasoned application of general moral principles. Instead, they draw on emotional reactions, particularly for certain kinds of moral dilemmas."

Brain imaging study sheds light on moral decision-making​

Princeton - News - Brain imaging study sheds light on moral decision-making

pr.princeton.edu

Did we really need brain imaging to understand this? Yes, it is interesting to have as support but morality not logic, it is not rational at its heart. It is emotional and experiential. It also comes from suffering.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

Did you want to answer my question? If Molech demands child sacrifice, should we not judge him as evil simply because he is a god?

Correct

 

[Tinkerpeach]

I do and it does.
You may not like it, but then, who are you?


I do not agree with the might makes right philosophy.


Sure do.
Not that it makes any difference.


Perhaps that is because God fears His creation?

If Lucifer and his army of angels couldn’t take down God I doubt He fears you lol.

Maybe if you watch a Rocky movie first or something you might have a shot.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Did we really need brain imaging to understand this? Yes, it is interesting to have as support but morality not logic, it is not rational at its heart. It is emotional and experiential. It also comes from suffering.

I think that until we had the MRI studies, it could only be considered a hypothesis. Now we know it for a fact.