Differences Between Judaism and Islam?

[nazz]

I have no knowledge of who told you, how many told you, whether you understood what they told you, or whether you are honestly communicating what they purportedly told you.

I have no idea, and I fully suspect that you have less. But if you insist on claiming a superior understanding of the Jewish position you are obviously free to do so.

None that I know of. Why do you ask?

Well if most Jews think that Jesus was some kind of prophet they seem to be keeping it a secret.

Back in my Nazarene Judaism days I went to a Jewish site called What kind of Jew Are You? (no longer exists). As soon as I explained my beliefs I was shown the door and told to wipe my butt with the New Testament.

I also joined a group for people interested in formally converting to Judaism. As soon as I mentioned I still believed in Jesus I was banned.

Many Messianic Jews recount tales of being completely shunned by not only the Jewish community but even their own families for their acceptance of Jesus as Messiah. It is more acceptable to be a Jewish atheist than one who believes in Jesus.

Are all these some kind of flukes IYO?

 

[Suluby]

I've heard more than a few rabbis 'accept' Jesus in much the same way as they might 'accept' one of the lesser prophets, but never as a god or an inerrant messenger of God.

Really?

Rabbis that "accept Jesus as they "accept" Hosea or Joel or Amos or the rest of the 12 Minor Prophets? Do you have any info on those rabbis ...... I'd like to do some further research.

TIA


.

 

[Tarheeler]

I've heard a few rabbis talk about Jesus being a prophet, but only in the general sense of being someone spreading a message of compassion and justice. They usually also included Dr. King, Mahatma Gandhi, and other social justice activists in the same category.

 

[Suluby]

No. Neither. Do all the opinions of all the Jews who have told me this not count? Do they not represent the majority of how Jews think? Or do rabbis normally give sermons about Jesus in shul?

Of course I understand there are exceptions. I've read a number of books by Jews that presented a positive treatment of Jesus. I can't remember one now by a Dan somebody who talks about how strongly criticized he was by other Jews for merely suggesting that Jesus was a failed messiah rather than a false one.

What is the difference between a failed messiah and a false messiah? Isn't it just semantics?

The bottom line is that Jesus was not the messiah foretold in the Tanakh and for whom Jews still wait.


Some rabbis do mention the man in sermons ...... mine does on occasion, just not by name!


.

 

[jazzymom]

I am told repeatedly by Jews that Jesus has no religious significance in Judaism. He has no standing in any sect. If anything he is considered a false prophet.

Jesus has no significance to Judaism or the Jewish people other then he was Jewish and in my opinion probably a teacher with a following.

He came at a time of messianic hopefulness and he was not the first nor the last.

I don't believe he wanted to start a new religion but to cause change in his own.

But he was not a prophet.

As to the negativity people feel towards Jesus I believe much of it comes from the very negative history that came from Christianity towards the Jewish people historically.

 

[nazz]

What is the difference between a failed messiah and a false messiah? Isn't it just semantics? .

An interview with Rabbi Irving Greenberg

Rabbi Irving Greenberg on Jewish-Christian relations, the Holocaust,, Israel, religion, pluralism - Beliefnet.com

My argument is that one way to see Jesus is as a failed messiah—something I proposed a number of years ago—and what I meant was that the world is not yet complete. Jesus taught the right values; Jesus tried to bring the righteous kingdom. That's a much more respectful title than "false messiah."


I gave the example from Maimonides' work. He said that people like Bar Kochba are to be treated as kings of Israel who didn't complete the work. They failed, but they're certainly considered righteous, and to be respected and treated with honor.


Most Jews were angry at me for calling Jesus a messiah, as I recount in the book. Most Christians were also angry, saying that by using the word "failed," I was putting Jesus down. However, some Christians got what I was doing from the beginning—the image of Jesus on the cross dying is a classic image of failure. He could have flexed his muscles and wiped out all the Romans. Instead, it was a statement of humility and of unfinished business.

 

[Levite]

An interview with Rabbi Irving Greenberg

Rabbi Irving Greenberg on Jewish-Christian relations, the Holocaust,, Israel, religion, pluralism - Beliefnet.com

You can always depend on Yitz Greenberg for something thoughtful and empathetic to say.

I see nothing wrong with counting Jesus as a "failed messiah," presuming that he didn't actually claim some of the things his later followers attribute to him-- which I presume he did not.

I have never heard of a rabbi who was willing to call Jesus a prophet, however. I would be mightily skeptical of any rabbi who would do so, save only in the most empty courtesy.

 

[nazz]

Jesus has no significance to Judaism or the Jewish people other then he was Jewish and in my opinion probably a teacher with a following.

He came at a time of messianic hopefulness and he was not the first nor the last.

I don't believe he wanted to start a new religion but to cause change in his own.

But he was not a prophet.

that matches what I have mostly heard as well.

As to the negativity people feel towards Jesus I believe much of it comes from the very negative history that came from Christianity towards the Jewish people historically.

Yes, that is what I think as well. And it is totally understandable. As it was explained to me once by an Orthodox Jew for a Jew to convert to Christianity it is like becoming a traitor to their own people.

 

[jazzymom]

that matches what I have mostly heard as well.



Yes, that is what I think as well. And it is totally understandable. As it was explained to me once by an Orthodox Jew for a Jew to convert to Christianity it is like becoming a traitor to their own people.

It is also problematic that Christians seek to gain converts and that messianic Jews and Jews for Jesus target Jews.

It does not cause good will or trust.

 

[nazz]

It is also problematic that Christians seek to gain converts and that messianic Jews and Jews for Jesus target Jews.

It does not cause good will or trust.

I was shocked when I first heard a Jew likening that to finishing Hitler's work.

 

[jazzymom]

I was shocked when I first heard a Jew likening that to finishing Hitler's work.

I think that you cannot know what would lead someone to say that.

I don't agree but I understand what was meant.

I do find it unacceptable that a religion would seek to convert others and that some target Jews especially.

For every Jewish person we lose to Christianity we lose a Jewish soul and a member of the Jewish family.

 

[nazz]

I think that you cannot know what would lead someone to say that.

Actually I have come to understand it

 

[Saggio]

This thread is about the differences between Judaism and Islam, let's keep Christianity out of it.

 

[Saggio]

I personally think that the biggest split between Judaism and Islam is a concept called abrogation, while Jews believe that the Torah is an eternal covenant between God and the Jewish people, the Muslims argue that the Torah was abrogated by the Quran.

 

[dantech]

For every Jewish person we lose to Christianity we lose a Jewish soul and a member of the Jewish family.

As well as the offspring

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I see nothing wrong with counting Jesus as a "failed messiah," presuming that he didn't actually claim some of the things his later followers attribute to him-- which I presume he did not.

This strikes me as a rather strange statement: if one were to presume that Jesus "didn't actually claim some of the things his later followers attribute to him," that might well include the presumption that he never claimed to be a messiah and, if so, counting him as a "failed messiah" makes about as much sense as counting him as a failed wide receiver.

 

[Flankerl]

If Jesus is a failed messiah then pretty much ALL jews except the future messiah are false messiahs.

Which makes the distinction redundant. He is a false prophet.

 

[Levite]

This strikes me as a rather strange statement: if one were to presume that Jesus "didn't actually claim some of the things his later followers attribute to him," that might well include the presumption that he never claimed to be a messiah and, if so, counting him as a "failed messiah" makes about as much sense as counting him as a failed wide receiver.

A person can, it seems to me, be a failed messiah without ever having claimed the messianic mantle explicitly. Bar Kochba, for example: we don't know that he himself ever claimed to be the moshiach; but his followers did claim it. Rebbe Nachman hinted that he could be the moshiach, but never claimed, and turned out not to be. Others, some quite recently, have had followers who claimed they were the messiah and yet they themselves never said it, and they were essentially good men who taught some quality Torah.

And in any case, I am less concerned with whether Jesus did or did not claim the messianic mantle, and more with whether he claimed to be a prophet, or the literal son of God, or God Himself-- the latter two of which I am positive he never claimed, and the former of which I am at least dubious he claimed.

 

[F0uad]

I personally think that the biggest split between Judaism and Islam is a concept called abrogation, while Jews believe that the Torah is an eternal covenant between God and the Jewish people, the Muslims argue that the Torah was abrogated by the Quran.

Actually it was abrogated by the Songs of David(pbuh) if there would be any scripture differences and the Injil(Gospel) given to Jesus(pbuh).

Its not really abrogation in a sense that God changed hes mind but rather that civilizations evolved in time for example some commandments can't be fulfilled in this time due the destruction of the temple. However i can point out that Judaism is more of a Jewish religion and Islam is less a Arabic religion.

There are many differences and similarities but as i understand Judaism and Islam both teach the Oneness of god without a trinitarian or any other concept of Allah(swt). If i am correct Jews also belief that Muslims do worship the true one god and Muslims belief that the Jews worship the true one god also.

As i said before i can't find any other religion then Islam that is so close to Judaism and this is probably because we have (religious speaking) the same ancestors.

 

[Matemkar]

Salam/Peace..
Why not ask Quran to tell which one is closer to Islam and Muslims?
"[SIZE=-1]Nearest among them (non-moslems) in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]priests and monks[/SIZE][SIZE=-1], and they are not arrogant. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]And when they listen to the revelation received by the Messenger, thou wilt see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognise the truth: they pray: "Our Lord! we believe; write us down among the witnesses."[/SIZE]

However, I must note that, Quran does not praise or condemn any nation wholly.. Only praises or condemns a select group of people among these faiths.. like the verse I quoted above, the QISSESEEN (men devoted to learning. ie Priests).. ROHBAN (Roohaniyon.. those who renounce the world.. ie Monks) are praised.. So, on the basis of Islam, these and other things are criterias for being close to Muslims.. not what we (muslims) deduce in our comparison..

another point that I want to make here is; in Judaism and Christianity there are different groups and views.. so, again, one can not say which is closer to Islam in belief..

Recently I saw a video of a Christian Arab Priest talking about Prophet Muhammad's diplomacy.. Priest Nadim Nassar mentioned what Quran says about Christians.. And, interestingly because he speaks Arabic and analyzed the people of the book that time, he mentioned, there are two definitions in Quran for Christians.. One is "Nasraani" (can mean both 1- Related to Nazereth, 2- Helpers of Jesus, related to apostles) and the other is "Masihi" (related to Messiah).. and how the Christians in Arabia of that time was different to the majority.. so, the verses are about them.. etc.. I won't tell all of it.. You can see the video..

Anyway.. I don't know much about the terms for Judaism and Jews in Quran.. But, I read two different terms.. "Bani Israil" (Children of Israel/Jacob) and "Yahoodi" (Related to Judah).. So, one needs to study all this to make a judgement..

and, it must be noted that Islam honours all the People of the Book (Jews, Christians, Sabians and etc) more than any.. and calls them to unity on the love of God.. See; Quran 3:64.

and to the op. and muslims and the jews and others who discussed the topic on the thread, I kindly suggest "What Do Muslims Think of Jews?" event by Hajj Hassanain Rajabali.. He discusses according to Quran, what islam says about Judaism and Jews and also all other faiths and their subscribers.. And, I think, as he says, we must focus on the commonalities rather than the differences.. Thanks..