Differences in Biblical Interpetations

[Debunker]

Oh, dear. You can find as much information as you like about Rabbi Schneerson at Chabad.org.

I don't usually have occasion to speak of him, much. He was a great man, who gave advice to people from all walks of life on just about all matters, during his lifetime.

He was a leader who encouraged his "messengers" to go to different Jewish communities all over the world to ensure that there would be a "Chabad House" where
Torah would be taught to all kinds of people.

I believe that it is at his insistence that there are loads of "Mitzva Tanks" that can be seen all over the place (in NYC, they are REALLY all over the place). In any affair where there are likely to be large numbers of Jews, there are stands where "messengers" encourage Jews to lay Tefillin and recite a few prayers.

He made it a point that, wherever they were, that the "messengers" made a point that the non-Jews, wherever they were, were not left out, and that they should be taught about the Seven Noachide Laws and be made to understand that God has love for them, too.

There are many things he did, over the course of his life. I'm sure I haven't even touched the top of the tip of the iceberg when it come to relating all of the wonderful things he accomplished in his lifetime.

But with all of these wonderful things, he did not manage to convince all the Jews to move to Israel, and if you've seen the news, you know there's not world peace. So while he was a wonderful Messianic candidate, he was, alas, not the Messiah.


I'm not 100% certain. I'm sure some of it is involved in Jacob's blessing in Genesis, some of it is in Moses' blessing at the end of Deuteronomy. Some of it is involved in the discussion that various prophets had with King David.

This is one of those things that I haven't focused on verses, but understand that such is what Jewish beliefs are.

It's not as important to me to know WHERE the source of a Jewish belief is (although it is often good to know) as much as it is important to know WHAT they are.

I mean... If you want to know where I know the majority of the things I know of the Jewish expectation of the Messiah come from, I can suggest to look in Maimonides' codification of Jewish law on the section on "Laws of Kings."

I'm not sure of the verses, but I know others who do.

Back to the topic of this thread, I am very interested in the fact that the Torah, Prophets, and Books of Knowledge and Wisdom do forecast a Messiah. Christian pundits have researched these verses in the Bible and claim that Jesus fulfilled all the requirements of a Messiah. It is believed that Christ was of the same Spirit as dabar and in that sense was God in the flesh. That is why Christ told the Jews that when they saw Him that they were viewing the image of debar/logos. To the Jews this was blasphemy. Jesus used undeniable miracles to prove He was God and to prove that he had met all scripture requirements to be the Messiah, the High Priest, the Son of David, Melchisedec, king of Salem, and Savior of Jews and gentiles.

The reason I asked you what the Messiah would be like, I wanted to see if our Christ was comparable to the Messiah for which you look to come.

 

[Harmonious]

Back to the topic of this thread, I am very interested in the fact that the Torah, Prophets, and Books of Knowledge and Wisdom do forecast a Messiah. Christian pundits have researched these verses in the Bible and claim that Jesus fulfilled all the requirements of a Messiah. It is believed that Christ was of the same Spirit as dabar and in that sense was God in the flesh. That is why Christ told the Jews that when they saw Him that they were viewing the image of debar/logos. To the Jews this was blasphemy. Jesus used undeniable miracles to prove He was God and to prove that he had met all scripture requirements to be the Messiah, the High Priest, the Son of David, Melchisedec, king of Salem, and Savior of Jews and gentiles.

The reason I asked you what the Messiah would be like, I wanted to see if our Christ was comparable to the Messiah for which you look to come.

I don't know if you are aware, but miracles all by themselves are not at all impressive to a Jewish crowd. As a matter of fact, God Himself told Jews to look out for "miracle men" who preach a different message than Torah.

In Deuteronomy, God actually tells the Jews to pay attention, because there will be false prophets who would lead Jews astray from God, and from Torah and commandments, and they will use miracles - even undeniable miracles - to attempt to prove their point.

The miracles are not proof that someone is a prophet (although it gives them more credibility if a sign is asked for). The message on point is the proof.

A true prophet will remind Jews to stay on target, and refocus on doing justice and following through with the commandments. Miracles might be used, but only to get the Jews' attention. If any message that a prophet delivers that goes against Torah, that is proof-positive that the prophet is false, no matter how impressive the miracles he might perform.

By simple logic, no matter how impressive he was, Jesus could never prove that he was, in fact God. If he could not point to a biological father, he certainly could not be a priest, forget about High Priest. He could not be from Judah, or the Davidic Dynasty, which is only passed from father to son.

Malkitzedek, the fellow Abraham met in Genesis, is known to Jews as another name for Shem, son of Noah.

The words may look the same, but in Psalm 110, Shem is not mentioned, but a King of Righteousness IS mentioned. That particular psalm was written by a soldier in King David's army, lauding the righteousness of his king. LIKE a priest, King David, as a king of righteousness, inspired other Jews to become closer to God.

 

[Pegg]

In Deuteronomy, God actually tells the Jews to pay attention, because there will be false prophets who would lead Jews astray from God, and from Torah and commandments, and they will use miracles - even undeniable miracles - to attempt to prove their point.

The miracles are not proof that someone is a prophet (although it gives them more credibility if a sign is asked for). The message on point is the proof.

A true prophet will remind Jews to stay on target, and refocus on doing justice and following through with the commandments.

i dont understand this because it seems that jewish belief, as has been stated by some jews here, is variable and quite different between jews themselves

And on top of that, jews readily believe in things that are not in their scriptures such as hellfire and immortal souls etc so it seems a contradiction because you already do believe teachings that are not from your scriptures such as oral laws for instance ... how do you know some of those teachings are not from false prophets/teachers?

 

[Harmonious]

i dont understand this because it seems that jewish belief, as has been stated by some jews here, is variable and quite different between jews themselves

Well... The concept of "where there are two Jews, there are three opinions" is true, sometimes.

However, there are some immutable facts amongst those who believe in Orthodox Jewry. (The name might be relatively new, as in a couple of centuries old, but not the belief system.)

As much as Sephardim and Ashkenazim, and Chassidim and Mitnagdim, the Yeshivish and the Modern Orthodox disagree on many customs, the fact is that Torah law is the same.

And a person who claims to be a prophet and tries to abrogate what all these people I've already mentioned know as fact in Torah law is, in fact, a false prophet.

(In other words, Jews may disagree about a lot, but when it comes to the important stuff, not so much.)

And on top of that, jews readily believe in things that are not in their scriptures such as hellfire and immortal souls etc

Jews DON'T believe in "hellfire". Jews DO believe in immortal souls, and while such things are not in our scriptures, they ARE a part of what we've learned from our Oral Traditions.

They are not found in the texts, but that doesn't mean that the Jewish belief system is Sola Scriptura.

so it seems a contradiction because you already do believe teachings that are not from your scriptures such as oral laws for instance ... how do you know some of those teachings are not from false prophets/teachers?

You know...

You seem to be of the mind that the Oral Tradition sprang up out of the air, or so it would seem, and it is a relatively new invention.

We KNOW what the teachings are, because they have been handed down since God gave them to Moses.

There is an ENTIRE BELIEF SYSTEM founded around how the Oral Law interacts with the Written Law.

It is rather obvious to those in the know to recognize when someone presents something that is outside of the system.

As I said before, the things that the Jews disagree about are less than you would imagine. But then again, you aren't really in a position to know how Jews would determine an "important disagreement" with an "unimportant disagreement." As such, I would suggest that, while YOU might not know the difference, JEWS - especially knowledgeable Jews - would.

I know many things, but I am certainly not the most knowledgeable scholar in all things Jewish. But there are certain things that would definitely wave red flags if I saw them.

 

[Caladan]

i dont understand this because it seems that jewish belief, as has been stated by some jews here, is variable and quite different between jews themselves

Yeah. God forbid that.
during the 1st Century in Jewish history in the land of Israel, or during Jesus' time in Christian history as it were. the Jews followed several major streams. one stream was dominating the Temple affairs. these aristocratic Jews used priestly privileges as authority, another sect widely known in Christian tradition, the Pharisees was promoting its affairs under prophetic authority, these two group of Jews fiercely debated on social and political affairs in the land of Israel during 1st century, and their rivalry goes even before that to the times of the Babylonian captivity. other groups included the Essenes who had a distinct political vision on the political situation between the Romans and people of the Judean province, the Sicarri who were a group of contract killers who assassinated high profile Roman personage and their 'collaborators' in high Jewish society, including perhaps the High Priest Jonathan, and the Zealots who constantly attempted to provoke an armed revolt against the Roman authorities.
just like during the first century in Judea. or the times of Jesus. Jews today have their own distinct political identities and interests, and their own social visions. it may be a small nation and a people, but perhaps one of the most individualistic and diverse.

And on top of that, jews readily believe in things that are not in their scriptures such as hellfire and immortal souls etc so it seems a contradiction because you already do believe teachings that are not from your scriptures such as oral laws for instance ... how do you know some of those teachings are not from false prophets/teachers?

I dont think I've ever met Jews who believe in hellfire. not even sure about immortal souls. furthermore, there is nothing wrong for a Jewish man to open the Qur'an for example, read the passage that says: 'God does not change the condition of a people until they themselves change it', nod and say. that's what its all about. we are a dynamic people, who are willing to work with anything productive for productive results. our religious texts teach us that a way of life is a predecessor to the Torah.

 

[Debunker]

I dont think I've ever met Jews who believe in hellfire. not even sure about immortal souls. furthermore, there is nothing wrong for a Jewish man to open the Qur'an for example, read the passage that says: 'God does not change the condition of a people until they themselves change it', nod and say. that's what its all about. we are a dynamic people, who are willing to work with anything productive for productive results. our religious texts teach us that a way of life is a predecessor to the Torah.

For all the reasons given by Cladan, it is MOP that the Scriptures given by Moses and the Prophets, their revealed theology, should be the final word and filter in Biblical interpretation. The fact that we can learn from many sources and opinions is good but as Christian, I believe in the divine inspiration of the Scriptures. A criterion I use is whether the Scriptures or outside sources build and enhance our understanding of the major concept of our search for God. And by God, I mean the Hebrew meaning of dabar which no theologian has ever been able to exhaust or fully describe. There simply is no vocabulary large enough to explain dabar. Outside sources to the Bible may be enlightening to us but I just don't know how far one can go in depending on them in our search for the true God.

 

[Caladan]

For all the reasons given by Cladan, it is MOP that the Scriptures given by Moses and the Prophets, their revealed theology, should be the final word and filter in Biblical interpretation. The fact that we can learn from many sources and opinions is good but as Christian, I believe in the divine inspiration of the Scriptures.

This is a great handicap for Christians and some Muslims. you have in effect blocked your mind from processing valuable information from the sacred texts of other major cultures. and no, I do not necessarily mean spiritual knowledge or truths. I mean extracting information about what motivates them, and how they interact with the scripture of your people, what are their cultural trends, and what you should expect when dealing with some of them, whether through trade or defence. or even if you just sit down to have a civilized discussion with them. its courteous to take the time to read the sacred scriptures of billion+ major religions which have shaped all of us' history, and be able to discuss with them and work your individual agenda in the world with a clearer perspective.
Redefining a text as 'divine', literal, flawless, or other bizarre epithets, is in effect to spit in the face of the scribes who wrote it and put a tremendous effort on capturing the geopolitical reality and situation of their time.
I wonder, if people in the future will take the American constitution, Time magazines, the great pieces of American literary work and call it infallible.
when people read the Hebrew scriptures literally they have ceased all efforts to read the experience of the scribes, analyzing the political and social implications behind their words, and the literary devices they use. its a real shame, considering this is the text Christendom and Western civilization was/is based upon.

A criterion I use is whether the Scriptures or outside sources build and enhance our understanding of the major concept of our search for God. And by God, I mean the Hebrew meaning of dabar which no theologian has ever been able to exhaust or fully describe. There simply is no vocabulary large enough to explain dabar. Outside sources to the Bible may be enlightening to us but I just don't know how far one can go in depending on them in our search for the true God.

See. now that just sounds too mystical, and 'out there' for someone like me. I read several scriptures, and after reading them so many times, it would take me minutes or seconds to see the interplay of cultures, who borrowed what from who, who adopted which wisdom to improve his culture, and most of all I would look for the cultural and socio-political implications of what these people have wrote.
I'll leave the search for God to monks and pilgrims.

 

[Pegg]

Well... The concept of "where there are two Jews, there are three opinions" is true, sometimes.

However, there are some immutable facts amongst those who believe in Orthodox Jewry. (The name might be relatively new, as in a couple of centuries old, but not the belief system.)

As much as Sephardim and Ashkenazim, and Chassidim and Mitnagdim, the Yeshivish and the Modern Orthodox disagree on many customs, the fact is that Torah law is the same.

when you say they disagree on many customs, do you mean customs as written down in the Torah, or the way a jew practices the Torah in their relative countries?

Jews DON'T believe in "hellfire". Jews DO believe in immortal souls, and while such things are not in our scriptures, they ARE a part of what we've learned from our Oral Traditions.

They are not found in the texts, but that doesn't mean that the Jewish belief system is Sola Scriptura.

Ah, i though hellfire was believed in, ok.

With regard to the immortal soul, im curious why that belief has been adopted when the hebrew scriptures are very clear in the resurrection teaching... do Jews of today still believe in the resurrection?

You know...
You seem to be of the mind that the Oral Tradition sprang up out of the air, or so it would seem, and it is a relatively new invention.

We KNOW what the teachings are, because they have been handed down since God gave them to Moses.

There is an ENTIRE BELIEF SYSTEM founded around how the Oral Law interacts with the Written Law.

Im aware that the oral traditions have been around for a very long time....it is one of Jesus pet hates. A lot of the arguments he had with the jewish leaders of his day was about the oral laws. To Jesus, the oral laws were corruptions of the Torah and he refused to follow the customs of the oral laws which made the religious leaders quite angry.
Jesus preached the written Torah only...he publically denounced the oral traditions.

I know many things, but I am certainly not the most knowledgeable scholar in all things Jewish. But there are certain things that would definitely wave red flags if I saw them.

are you talking about the Torah or oral laws here?

And im just wondering if the oral traditions are always changing? And if they do change or get modified between different teachers, how do you know if the change is right or wrong? Or do they simply just keep adding to the oral traditions...or do new explanations of Torah overide the older explanations as it is in Islam???


so many questions, sorry

 

[Pegg]

I dont think I've ever met Jews who believe in hellfire. not even sure about immortal souls. furthermore, there is nothing wrong for a Jewish man to open the Qur'an for example, read the passage that says: 'God does not change the condition of a people until they themselves change it', nod and say. that's what its all about. we are a dynamic people, who are willing to work with anything productive for productive results. our religious texts teach us that a way of life is a predecessor to the Torah.

what is more important, the Torah or the Oral traditions?

 

[Rakhel]

Customs, for example,

The Parsha, or potion of the Torah, that is read weekly. There are verses the Ashkenazim read that are different from what the Sephardim

There is no disagreement as to when Pesach/Passover is
There is disagreement as to what is eaten during that week.

A woman must cover her head but there is a disagreement as to what constitutes a head covering. Same disagreements are made for men.

The way a woman dresses, who one can marry, and how one can divorce,

These are just a few.

 

[Rakhel]

what is more important, the Torah or the Oral traditions?

Neither is more important than the other.

 

[Harmonious]

when you say they disagree on many customs, do you mean customs as written down in the Torah, or the way a jew practices the Torah in their relative countries?

The way a Jew practices Torah in our relative countries.

With regard to the immortal soul, im curious why that belief has been adopted

It's always been there. It just wasn't important enough to focus on, on a day to day basis.

In Ethics of the Fathers, it says in Mishna 1:3

Antignos of Socho received the tradition from Shimon the Righteous. He would say: Do not be as slaves, who serve their master for the sake of reward. Rather, be as slaves who serve their master not for the sake of reward. And the fear of Heaven should be upon you.

We KNOW that the World to Come is there. But we aren't working to worry about the World to Come. Rather, we should serve God out of love for God and humanity.

We do our job here, and God will take care of us in the World to Come.

when the hebrew scriptures are very clear in the resurrection teaching... do Jews of today still believe in the resurrection?

Of course we do. It is one of the 13 principles of Faith.

Im aware that the oral traditions have been around for a very long time....it is one of Jesus pet hates.

And that is one of the reasons that JESUS is one of MY pet hates.

That is also proof positive that Jesus was a false prophet.

A lot of the arguments he had with the jewish leaders of his day was about the oral laws. To Jesus, the oral laws were corruptions of the Torah and he refused to follow the customs of the oral laws which made the religious leaders quite angry.

Yes. It means that Jesus spent time rejecting all of the history and background, and details that God gave to the Jews when God gave the Torah to the Jews at Mount Sinai.

In short, Jesus was a heretic. The Pharisees didn't take kindly to that.

[quoteJesus preached the written Torah only...he publically denounced the oral traditions. [/quote]The problem with that is that he publicly denounced the meat and potatoes of Torah Law.

Oral Torah is every bit as much Torah as Written Torah. Jesus didn't recognize it.

There are MANY reasons I don't recognize Jesus as relevant. That is only one of them. But it is a BIG one.

are you talking about the Torah or oral laws here?

Both what is Written and what is Oral is Torah.

And im just wondering if the oral traditions are always changing? And if they do change or get modified between different teachers, how do you know if the change is right or wrong? Or do they simply just keep adding to the oral traditions...or do new explanations of Torah overide the older explanations as it is in Islam???

There are a lot of good questions. I'm not sure how to answer that. I'll think about them, and try to get back to you on them.

so many questions, sorry

Questions are good.

 

[Debunker]

This is a great handicap for Christians and some Muslims. you have in effect blocked your mind from processing valuable information from the sacred texts of other major cultures. and no, I do not necessarily mean spiritual knowledge or truths. I mean extracting information about what motivates them, and how they interact with the scripture of your people, what are their cultural trends, and what you should expect when dealing with some of them, whether through trade or defence. or even if you just sit down to have a civilized discussion with them. its courteous to take the time to read the sacred scriptures of billion+ major religions which have shaped all of us' history, and be able to discuss with them and work your individual agenda in the world with a clearer perspective.
Redefining a text as 'divine', literal, flawless, or other bizarre epithets, is in effect to spit in the face of the scribes who wrote it and put a tremendous effort on capturing the geopolitical reality and situation of their time.
I wonder, if people in the future will take the American constitution, Time magazines, the great pieces of American literary work and call it infallible.
when people read the Hebrew scriptures literally they have ceased all efforts to read the experience of the scribes, analyzing the political and social implications behind their words, and the literary devices they use. its a real shame, considering this is the text Christendom and Western civilization was/is based upon.

See. now that just sounds too mystical, and 'out there' for someone like me. I read several scriptures, and after reading them so many times, it would take me minutes or seconds to see the interplay of cultures, who borrowed what from who, who adopted which wisdom to improve his culture, and most of all I would look for the cultural and socio-political implications of what these people have wrote.
I'll leave the search for God to monks and pilgrims.

I'll leave the search for God to monks and pilgrims.

In fact that is what you have done in your efforts to interpret the Scriptures IMO. You are interested in the many cultures from which you take in consideration what their seers and profits have found out to be true or false. Here is a scenario where culture actually creates God and moral codes and rules of behavior. This appears to be simply another form of humanism, moral relativity, and is on the verge of being an atheistic position in religion. In your version of interpretation, you do not need a specific God or dabar.

In politics that is the difference between liberals and American idealism (conservativeness). Liberals say we do not need God to interpret the Constitution for it is a growing and changing creature but the American idealist believes the values of liberty and freedom were crafted by God. He would be pleased if people of the future read the Constitution of the USA and say God's word has never changed.

There is a very large population that believes that real values create culture, such as the Jewish and Christian values created the Western Culture, whereas the anti Western Culture would like to change values in society and replace the standard values with a more relative set of values. Liberals want to claim the idealist are narrow minded. We have seen this many times in both religion and politics Idealist, like G.W. Bush, maintain they are simply being true to their moral principles as given by God.

I did not find a culture when I discovered dabar. Since finding God, he has created my culture and my socialization has been built on inspiration from dabar. The strategy for my interpretation is to continue to seek dabar/logos and His knowledge, which I believe is inexhaustible. There is plenty of room for me and society to change but God remains an unchanging standard that never changes. It is man's purpose through society to adjust to God's laws, both spiritual and physical, to adjust to a perfect God. That is the only way man can approach perfection and the only way to judge perfection.

In this sense alone can man open up his mind to truth. We do not close our minds to knowledge, as you suggest, but by belief in dabar/logos, we exspand our abilitty by not depending on the outside seers of revealed theology.

 

[Caladan]

what is more important, the Torah or the Oral traditions?

More important to whom? every one is responsible to discern their own reading material and decide what resonates with them.
Personally I'm more familiar with the Hebrew Bible. although I'm familiar with some striking passages from the Talmud. the kind that made their way into the Qur'an for all posterity.

 

[Caladan]

In fact that is what you have done in your efforts to interpret the Scriptures IMO. You are interested in the many cultures from which you take in consideration what their seers and profits have found out to be true or false. Here is a scenario where culture actually creates God and moral codes and rules of behavior. This appears to be simply another form of humanism, moral relativity, and is on the verge of being an atheistic position in religion. In your version of interpretation, you do not need a specific God or dabar.

In politics that is the difference between liberals and American idealism (conservativeness). Liberals say we do not need God to interpret the Constitution for it is a growing and changing creature but the American idealist believes the values of liberty and freedom were crafted by God. He would be pleased if people of the future read the Constitution of the USA and say God's word has never changed.

There is a very large population that believes that real values create culture, such as the Jewish and Christian values created the Western Culture, whereas the anti Western Culture would like to change values in society and replace the standard values with a more relative set of values. Liberals want to claim the idealist are narrow minded. We have seen this many times in both religion and politics Idealist, like G.W. Bush, maintain they are simply being true to their moral principles as given by God.

I did not find a culture when I discovered dabar. Since finding God, he has created my culture and my socialization has been built on inspiration from dabar. The strategy for my interpretation is to continue to seek dabar/logos and His knowledge, which I believe is inexhaustible. There is plenty of room for me and society to change but God remains an unchanging standard that never changes. It is man's purpose through society to adjust to God's laws, both spiritual and physical, to adjust to a perfect God. That is the only way man can approach perfection and the only way to judge perfection.

In this sense alone can man open up his mind to truth. We do not close our minds to knowledge, as you suggest, but by belief in dabar/logos, we exspand our abilitty by not depending on the outside seers of revealed theology.

Let me think about it for a second. no. didn't understand any of it.

 

[xkatz]

Personally I'm more familiar with the Hebrew Bible. although I'm familiar with some striking passages from the Talmud.

Ditto.

 

[Debunker]

Let me think about it for a second. no. didn't understand any of it.

To clear things up, just ask the question of old. Is it better to obey God's values or the values that man creates? It is not a new question but easily avoided under modern day pressure to rely on man's wisdom instead of God's eternal wisdom. There are plenty of Old Testament and Torah verses that pose the same question. What would be your answer?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I as a Gnostic don't really deal with the OT much, except as wisdom literature maybe. Certainly not to be read literally. I see in it some of the wisdom and guidance of the Jewish god, and some of the views of that people about their god, as any religious text has. I never read any of the Bible literally.

 

[Caladan]

To clear things up, just ask the question of old. Is it better to obey God's values or the values that man creates?

That depends on who your God is.

It is not a new question but easily avoided under modern day pressure to rely on man's wisdom instead of God's eternal wisdom. There are plenty of Old Testament and Torah verses that pose the same question. What would be your answer?

Some believe their God expects them to think for themselves. others want to be herded.
to some of the Israelites the Hebrew Bible says that they shall be a ravenous wolf, in the morning devouring the prey, and at night dividing the spoil. to the Christians their scriptures preach to be as sheep. my advice is careful when you go out at night. some Jews love to camp.

Genesis 49:27

 

[Debunker]

That depends on who your God is.

Some believe their God expects them to think for themselves. others want to be herded.
to some of the Israelites the Hebrew Bible says that they shall be a ravenous wolf, in the morning devouring the prey, and at night dividing the spoil. to the Christians their scriptures preach to be as sheep. my advice is careful when you go out at night. some Jews love to camp.

Genesis 49:27

Funny thing, I read in the Torah where the God of the Jews brought Israel out of Egypt "harnessed" before Moses could give them the Commands of God. God does want us to think for ourselves but only the ones who obeyed God's words made it through the wilderness to the promised land. That was only one or two people as I recall.

You can lean on your own understanding if you like but "Josh:24:15: And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."Josh:24:15: And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."