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Difficult questions for Jews and Christians.

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
Sounds like another anti Christian/Jewish rant from a muslim

It's even worse.
It's one of those "Christianity got it all wrong about Jesus, here let me show you the truth by using books which were authored and selected by the early Christian Church"-types.

And obviously this includes Judaism because we clearly haven't seen the light and aren't observant to God...............

And it's not even Christmas...



And the Jew must ask: Why were my ancestors dispossessed of the land of Israel a second time and why for so long? The nation of Israel was dispersed the first time for only seventy years for its sins, like sacrificing children to pagan idols. What could have been done to warrant a nearly two-thousand-year second dispersion?

It's our hobby to annoy HaShem. That should have been obvious by studying the TaNaKh. It's everywhere.
 

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
First of all, they're not seldom asked. The Rabbis and their successors have asked such questions and discussed possible answers many times. These sorts of questions are asked throughout Rabbinic literature, and it is typical ignorance of Jewish Thought to presume they are novel or unasked questions.

Second of all, everyone could benefit from knowledge of the messiah. We'll all be interested to learn from him whenever he finally gets here, since he manifestly has not yet arrived.

I am not ignorant to Jewish thought. I am talking about the lack of conversation amongst most Jews and Christians on these difficult questions. I have heard many different Rabbi's opinions over the years. None that suffice though imho.

Yes..I am aware you don't hold Yeshua as the Messiah. I'm not worried about that. The OP clearly states that the "last thing Jew's need is Christianity". This is not a ploy to convert Jews or Christianity. Its more a call to rethink our adherence to Torah. You know as well as I do that if His people repent and turn to Torah, He will restore the kingdom.

By the way. What is your view on why Hashem removed His protection in the fist century? It has been many years in diaspora for us all. I think it is a logical to rethink how we have been approaching YHVH and His Torah.
 

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
While they are sometimes difficult for us to ask ourselves, we discuss them often.
And the answers have absolutely nothing to do with Jesus.

It does have something to do with repentance and Torah observance though. Still worthy of discussion.
 

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
Where does logic factor into following Yeshua? Also- you mean the manuscripts preserved by church writers?

Some things written in the Gospels are just factually wrong. Matthews usage of Isaiah 7:14 is a perfect example. It had nothing to do with the Messiah or a virgin birth. Matthew either made a blunder or this was added to the text later. Likely the later considering the Ebionites only used the Hebrew version of Matthew. This version did not have the virgin birth account in it.

Other issues are from additions from later greek texts. Would love to go into this more sometime.
 

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
Where does logic factor into following Yeshua? Also- you mean the manuscripts preserved by church writers?

For me, it is His message of heart felt repentance and his desire to return to Torah which has captured me and actually pushed me to learn Torah. This is what makes him worthy to follow imho.

Other people have looked into Yeshua's words for other reasons. Like Albert Einstein:

"As a child I received instruction both in the Bible and in the Talmud. I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene....No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life." --Albert Einstein
 

outhouse

Atheistically
It's even worse.
It's one of those "Christianity got it all wrong about Jesus, here let me show you the truth by using books which were authored and selected by the early Christian Church"-types.

.

It is exactly what a muslim hiding identity would say by all accounts.

Judaism is wrong and not giving Jesus credit like islam would

And Jesus is not right because the fathers corrupted the book, just like islam states
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
I am not ignorant to Jewish thought.

I was actually referring more to the author of the piece to which you linked.

...You know as well as I do that if His people repent and turn to Torah, He will restore the kingdom.

By the way. What is your view on why Hashem removed His protection in the fist century? It has been many years in diaspora for us all. I think it is a logical to rethink how we have been approaching YHVH and His Torah.

I don't think it has anything to do with how we have been approaching God and Torah per se. I think it has more to do with actually learning Torah, observing mitzvot, and putting into practice what we have been taught.

The Rabbis tell us that the Second Temple was lost because of sinat chinam (baseless hatred, vicious intolerance); by extension, our inability to rein in and refrain from sinat chinam even amongst ourselves is what has driven us into Exile and kept us there.

I think that really controlling and freeing ourselves from sinat chinam-- probably, as Rav Kook taught, through pathways of ahavat chinam, unconditional love and tolerance-- will be a major set of steps on the road to bringing the moshiach and ending the Exile. But I think the moshiach isn't going to come until we have achieved-- or largely achieved-- tikkun olam (the amending/repair of the world), not just amongst the People Israel but among all nations.

I am firmly of the school of thought that holds that the moshiach is a leader who inaugurates a messianic era and leads us in it, not a leader who brings us to a messianic age and causes it to come about. When we have conquered sinat chinam, made peace with our enemies, helped bring about endings to war, poverty, famine, plagues, homelessness, oppression, intolerance, and so forth, then we will have proven that we are worthy of a messianic age, and the moshiach will come to help us organize and to lead us as we rebuild the Temple, reconstitute the Sanhedrin, and dedicate ourselves to renewed spirituality and living in a world guided by the principles of Torah.
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
By the way. What is your view on why Hashem removed His protection in the fist century?

Why the first century? Is that the convenient date to base your belief around Jesus?

All the way from 586 BCE to 140 BCE Israel was under occupation. Sometimes bad and sometimes good occupation.

Then from 140 BCE till 37 BCE it wasn't only to end up as a client Kingdom of Rome and then a Roman province.


Why cherrypick the fall of the second Temple? Why not the first?
Perhaps we missed the Moshiach in 586 BCE. Would make sense because we lost the one and only first Temple and everything which was inside it. Contrary to the empty second Temple.

Perhaps the Moshiach was some Jew in 586 BCE. Makes more sense than him being Jesus.
 

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
Your OP certainly did; it stated that we Jews need "knowledge of out messiah", and it did so in the context of exile and what we did to deserve it.

The agenda is clear.
Might want to read it again. It said "a Jew may benefit" from Yeshua. The author states over and over on his website that Jews don't need Yeshua but could benefit from his teachings.
 

Tarheeler

Argumentative Curmudgeon
Premium Member
Might want to read it again. It said "a Jew may benefit" from Yeshua. The author states over and over on his website that Jews don't need Yeshua but could benefit from his teachings.

Not what I said.
 
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