Disappointed in our bishop

[pearl]

Bishop forbids Jesuit-run school from calling itself ‘Catholic’ for flying LGBT and Black Lives Matter flags

A standoff between a Jesuit middle school and the bishop of Worcester, Mass., where the school is located, escalated Thursday, after Bishop Robert J. McManus stripped the “Catholic” moniker from the school over its decision to continue flying flags supporting L.G.B.T. pride and Black Lives Matter.
“The flying of these flags in front of a Catholic school sends a mixed, confusing and scandalous message to the public about the Church’s stance on these important moral and social issues,” states a decree issued on June 10 and signed by Bishop McManus. The ruling was posted to the diocese’s website on Thursday.

“These flags simply state that all are welcome at Nativity and this value of inclusion is rooted in Catholic teaching.”

In January 2021, students requested that the school fly a rainbow flag to show support for the L.G.B.T. community and another to support Black Lives Matter. According to the school, the flags remained up for more than a year before the bishop requested they be removed. Shortly after that request, the flags were torn down in an act of vandalism, but the school replaced them.

At issue is what the flags are perceived to symbolize.

Bishop McManus wrote in the decree that the pride flag connoted support for same-sex marriage, which the Catholic Church opposes, and for “actively living a LGBTQ+ lifestyle.”

As for the Black Lives Matter flag, the bishop wrote that “the Catholic Church teaches that all life is sacred and the Church certainly stands unequivocally behind the phrase ‘black lives matter’ and strongly affirms that all lives matter.”

But, he continued, the movement associated with Black Lives Matter “promotes a platform that directly contradicts Catholic social teaching on the importance and role of the nuclear family and seeks to disrupt the family structure in clear opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church.”

“Both flags are now widely understood to celebrate the human dignity of our relatives, friends and neighbors who have faced, and continue to face hate and discrimination,” Mr. McKenney wrote. “Though any symbol or flag can be co-opted by political groups or organizations, flying our flags is not an endorsement of any organization or ideology,” he said, adding that “they fly in support of marginalized people.”

“This leaves me no other option but to take canonical action,” he continued.

In addition to no longer being able to describe itself as Catholic, the school is not permitted to celebrate Mass on its premises, is barred from engaging in fundraising with diocesan organizations and must remove a previous Worcester bishop from its board of directors.

The move by Bishop McManus to strip the Nativity School of its Catholic label mirrors a similar situation that played out three years ago.

Administrators at the Jesuit-run College of the Holy Cross, which is located in Worcester and has connections to the Nativity School, responded by calling his remarks “deeply hurtful and offensive.” That prompted a reply from the bishop, who repeated his call that all people, including those who are transgender, be treated with compassion and respect. But he stood by his remarks.

“If certain members of the Holy Cross community find this to be hurtful and offensive, then perhaps the college should present clearly what Catholicism teaches regarding Christian anthropology and human sexuality,” he said in 2019.

Personally, I think this bishop is out of touch with Francis.
Bishop forbids Jesuit-run school from calling itself ‘Catholic’ for flying LGBT and Black Lives Matter flags | America Magazine

 

[Aštra’el]

Good. I approve.

 

[Sheldon]

Surely the homophobic bigotry of the Catholic church isn't a shock to anyone anymore? This is the same church that aided and abetted countless paedophile priests to escape justice for years, moving them around to abuse children in their care with impunity. That even now cares more about the reputation of the church, than seeking justice for the victims. It's a dinosaur, but sadly this one isn't extinct yet.

 

[joe1776]

...
Personally, I think this bishop is out of touch with Francis.

As an outsider, it seems to me that your pope is more liberal than many of his bishops. I find it hard to nail down typical Catholic views on current social topics. As a liberal, I like Francis. Frankly, it amuses me that he's shaking up the world of conservative Catholics.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You're disappointed in the bishop upholding the teachings of the Church? Maybe you don't understand the Church teaching yourself? I think the bishop made it pretty clear. And if Francis supports this, then he is a renegade who needs reining in. The Pope doesn't get to change millennia of Church teaching to suit the depraved world. That's not how Catholicism works.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Surely the homophobic bigotry of the Catholic church isn't a shock to anyone anymore? This is the same church that aided and abetted countless paedophile priests to escape justice for years, moving them around to abuse children in their care with impunity. That even now cares more about the reputation of the church, than seeking justice for the victims. It's a dinosaur, but sadly this one isn't extinct yet.

That's what I was thinking too. IMO, this Catholic bishop should be more concerned about the plank in the eye of the Catholic church before he worries about the speck of dust in the eyes of other people. The Catholic Church's hierarchy doesn't have the moral ground to piously judge anyone else for what they consider to be sin when they actively protect pedophile priests and have done so for years.

 

[joe1776]

You're disappointed in the bishop upholding the teachings of the Church? Maybe you don't understand the Church teaching yourself? I think the bishop made it pretty clear. And if Francis supports this, then he is a renegade who needs reining in. The Pope doesn't get to change millennia of Church teaching to suit the depraved world. That's not how Catholicism works.

So, you're saying the Pope isn't Catholic?

 

[AlexanderG]

“[The long history of the Catholic Church hiding, facilitating, and protecting the sexual abuse of children] sends a mixed, confusing and scandalous message to the public about the Church’s stance on these important moral and social issues.”

There. I fixed it. Didn't Jesus say something about logs in eyes? About not judging? Didn't he say something about welcoming, defending, and ministering to "sinners"? I've never understood why so many Christians believe that driving LGBT people away from their churches will somehow save more of them, compared to welcoming them into their church.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Despite the facade of moral virtue that some Catholics like to put before the rest of the world, the Catholic Church is guilty itself of contributing to the "depraved world" because of the long history of its hierarchy protecting pedophile priests from prosecution and relocating these morally depraved sexual predators to other parishes so the monsters can continue sexually abusing more children.

 

[Sheldon]

The Pope doesn't get to change millennia of Church teaching to suit the depraved world. That's not how Catholicism works.

It's a very odd set of moral priorities that sees sex between consenting adults as depraved, while simultaneously doing everything in their power to protect priests responsible for the endemic rape of children in their care.

 

[Muffled]

Surely the homophobic bigotry of the Catholic church isn't a shock to anyone anymore? This is the same church that aided and abetted countless paedophile priests to escape justice for years, moving them around to abuse children in their care with impunity. That even now cares more about the reputation of the church, than seeking justice for the victims. It's a dinosaur, but sadly this one isn't extinct yet.

I believe Christians should be bigoted against abominations.

 

[Muffled]

Despite the facade of moral virtue that some Catholics like to put before the rest of the world, the Catholic Church is guilty itself of contributing to the "depraved world" because of the long history of its hierarchy protecting pedophile priests from prosecution and relocating these morally depraved sexual predators to other parishes so the monsters can continue sexually abusing more children.

So what are you saying? That we should champion child abuse and set up a flag for it because it isn't any worse sin than homosexuality?

 

[Koldo]

You're disappointed in the bishop upholding the teachings of the Church? Maybe you don't understand the Church teaching yourself? I think the bishop made it pretty clear. And if Francis supports this, then he is a renegade who needs reining in. The Pope doesn't get to change millennia of Church teaching to suit the depraved world. That's not how Catholicism works.

I am sorry but the irony meter just got broken.

 

[Koldo]

I believe Christians should be bigoted against abominations.

What exactly is an abomination?

 

[Sheldon]

I believe Christians should be bigoted against abominations.

Well there you go, as I said is anyone really surprised at religious bigotry from the Catholic church anymore, Again then, as it's worth repeating, it's an odd set of moral sensibilities that sees sex between consenting adults as an abomination, but protects priests guilty of endemic child abuse. Such people have no moral compass.

 

[joe1776]

It's a very odd set of moral priorities that sees sex between consenting adults as depraved, while simultaneously doing everything in their power to protect priests responsible for the endemic rape of children in their care.

It's not an odd set of priorities they're dealing with. The Church's problem stems from the fact that they have always claimed to speak for God. The ONLY source.

Before the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s, the Church taught that only Catholics could go to Heaven. Protestants, Jews and all other faiths were excluded. I've read that the Church didn't denounce slavery until that meeting in the 1960s. But to admit to these changes -- to what you and I would see as moral advances -- the Church would have to admit that it was previously wrong -- and that admission would clash with their claim to speak for God.

Keeping the lid on their internal problems with priests is the very kind of thing one should expect from the Church. That's a shame because most priests are good men, doing a helluva lot of good in their parishes for Catholics and non-Catholics alike.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

What exactly is an abomination?

It's an offensive act against the Abrahamic God. There are 84 of them in the Bible. A lying tongue is an abomination to God. But no matter how pious some Christians behave, there's no doubt in my mind that they can be guilty of lying through their teeth.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Bishop forbids Jesuit-run school from calling itself ‘Catholic’ for flying LGBT and Black Lives Matter flags

A standoff between a Jesuit middle school and the bishop of Worcester, Mass., where the school is located, escalated Thursday, after Bishop Robert J. McManus stripped the “Catholic” moniker from the school over its decision to continue flying flags supporting L.G.B.T. pride and Black Lives Matter.
“The flying of these flags in front of a Catholic school sends a mixed, confusing and scandalous message to the public about the Church’s stance on these important moral and social issues,” states a decree issued on June 10 and signed by Bishop McManus. The ruling was posted to the diocese’s website on Thursday.

“These flags simply state that all are welcome at Nativity and this value of inclusion is rooted in Catholic teaching.”

In January 2021, students requested that the school fly a rainbow flag to show support for the L.G.B.T. community and another to support Black Lives Matter. According to the school, the flags remained up for more than a year before the bishop requested they be removed. Shortly after that request, the flags were torn down in an act of vandalism, but the school replaced them.

At issue is what the flags are perceived to symbolize.

Bishop McManus wrote in the decree that the pride flag connoted support for same-sex marriage, which the Catholic Church opposes, and for “actively living a LGBTQ+ lifestyle.”

As for the Black Lives Matter flag, the bishop wrote that “the Catholic Church teaches that all life is sacred and the Church certainly stands unequivocally behind the phrase ‘black lives matter’ and strongly affirms that all lives matter.”

But, he continued, the movement associated with Black Lives Matter “promotes a platform that directly contradicts Catholic social teaching on the importance and role of the nuclear family and seeks to disrupt the family structure in clear opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church.”

“Both flags are now widely understood to celebrate the human dignity of our relatives, friends and neighbors who have faced, and continue to face hate and discrimination,” Mr. McKenney wrote. “Though any symbol or flag can be co-opted by political groups or organizations, flying our flags is not an endorsement of any organization or ideology,” he said, adding that “they fly in support of marginalized people.”

“This leaves me no other option but to take canonical action,” he continued.

In addition to no longer being able to describe itself as Catholic, the school is not permitted to celebrate Mass on its premises, is barred from engaging in fundraising with diocesan organizations and must remove a previous Worcester bishop from its board of directors.

The move by Bishop McManus to strip the Nativity School of its Catholic label mirrors a similar situation that played out three years ago.

Administrators at the Jesuit-run College of the Holy Cross, which is located in Worcester and has connections to the Nativity School, responded by calling his remarks “deeply hurtful and offensive.” That prompted a reply from the bishop, who repeated his call that all people, including those who are transgender, be treated with compassion and respect. But he stood by his remarks.

“If certain members of the Holy Cross community find this to be hurtful and offensive, then perhaps the college should present clearly what Catholicism teaches regarding Christian anthropology and human sexuality,” he said in 2019.

Personally, I think this bishop is out of touch with Francis.
Bishop forbids Jesuit-run school from calling itself ‘Catholic’ for flying LGBT and Black Lives Matter flags | America Magazine

Interesting how different it can be from one country to another. Here, the controversy is more about how just putting up a Pride flag at a Catholic school isn't enough:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/pride-flag-raising-toronto-school-1.6484405

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I've read that the Church didn't denounce slavery until that meeting in the 1960s.

... and then kept slaves themselves until 1996.

 

[exchemist]

Bishop forbids Jesuit-run school from calling itself ‘Catholic’ for flying LGBT and Black Lives Matter flags

A standoff between a Jesuit middle school and the bishop of Worcester, Mass., where the school is located, escalated Thursday, after Bishop Robert J. McManus stripped the “Catholic” moniker from the school over its decision to continue flying flags supporting L.G.B.T. pride and Black Lives Matter.
“The flying of these flags in front of a Catholic school sends a mixed, confusing and scandalous message to the public about the Church’s stance on these important moral and social issues,” states a decree issued on June 10 and signed by Bishop McManus. The ruling was posted to the diocese’s website on Thursday.

“These flags simply state that all are welcome at Nativity and this value of inclusion is rooted in Catholic teaching.”

In January 2021, students requested that the school fly a rainbow flag to show support for the L.G.B.T. community and another to support Black Lives Matter. According to the school, the flags remained up for more than a year before the bishop requested they be removed. Shortly after that request, the flags were torn down in an act of vandalism, but the school replaced them.

At issue is what the flags are perceived to symbolize.

Bishop McManus wrote in the decree that the pride flag connoted support for same-sex marriage, which the Catholic Church opposes, and for “actively living a LGBTQ+ lifestyle.”

As for the Black Lives Matter flag, the bishop wrote that “the Catholic Church teaches that all life is sacred and the Church certainly stands unequivocally behind the phrase ‘black lives matter’ and strongly affirms that all lives matter.”

But, he continued, the movement associated with Black Lives Matter “promotes a platform that directly contradicts Catholic social teaching on the importance and role of the nuclear family and seeks to disrupt the family structure in clear opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church.”

“Both flags are now widely understood to celebrate the human dignity of our relatives, friends and neighbors who have faced, and continue to face hate and discrimination,” Mr. McKenney wrote. “Though any symbol or flag can be co-opted by political groups or organizations, flying our flags is not an endorsement of any organization or ideology,” he said, adding that “they fly in support of marginalized people.”

“This leaves me no other option but to take canonical action,” he continued.

In addition to no longer being able to describe itself as Catholic, the school is not permitted to celebrate Mass on its premises, is barred from engaging in fundraising with diocesan organizations and must remove a previous Worcester bishop from its board of directors.

The move by Bishop McManus to strip the Nativity School of its Catholic label mirrors a similar situation that played out three years ago.

Administrators at the Jesuit-run College of the Holy Cross, which is located in Worcester and has connections to the Nativity School, responded by calling his remarks “deeply hurtful and offensive.” That prompted a reply from the bishop, who repeated his call that all people, including those who are transgender, be treated with compassion and respect. But he stood by his remarks.

“If certain members of the Holy Cross community find this to be hurtful and offensive, then perhaps the college should present clearly what Catholicism teaches regarding Christian anthropology and human sexuality,” he said in 2019.

Personally, I think this bishop is out of touch with Francis.
Bishop forbids Jesuit-run school from calling itself ‘Catholic’ for flying LGBT and Black Lives Matter flags | America Magazine

That seems odd. My understanding is that the Jesuits do not report to the diocesan bishop but to the Jesuit General in Rome. So surely they can tell him he has no jurisdiction there, can’t they?

(I remember when I got married, the Jesuit who married us allowed us to ignore the tedious 6 month preparation for marriage process mandated by the diocese, on precisely these grounds.)