Disappointed in our bishop

[Jayhawker Soule]

The following article on "abomination" may prove useful, although one must admit that it may well be too long and too substantive for your average anti-catholic and/or homophobic bigot.

See: Does the Bible really call Homosexuality an "abomination"?

Parenthetically, Religious Dispatches is, in my opinion, a worthwhile source in general.

 

[Kfox]

Bishop forbids Jesuit-run school from calling itself ‘Catholic’ for flying LGBT and Black Lives Matter flags

A standoff between a Jesuit middle school and the bishop of Worcester, Mass., where the school is located, escalated Thursday, after Bishop Robert J. McManus stripped the “Catholic” moniker from the school over its decision to continue flying flags supporting L.G.B.T. pride and Black Lives Matter.
“The flying of these flags in front of a Catholic school sends a mixed, confusing and scandalous message to the public about the Church’s stance on these important moral and social issues,” states a decree issued on June 10 and signed by Bishop McManus. The ruling was posted to the diocese’s website on Thursday.

“These flags simply state that all are welcome at Nativity and this value of inclusion is rooted in Catholic teaching.”

In January 2021, students requested that the school fly a rainbow flag to show support for the L.G.B.T. community and another to support Black Lives Matter. According to the school, the flags remained up for more than a year before the bishop requested they be removed. Shortly after that request, the flags were torn down in an act of vandalism, but the school replaced them.

At issue is what the flags are perceived to symbolize.

Bishop McManus wrote in the decree that the pride flag connoted support for same-sex marriage, which the Catholic Church opposes, and for “actively living a LGBTQ+ lifestyle.”

As for the Black Lives Matter flag, the bishop wrote that “the Catholic Church teaches that all life is sacred and the Church certainly stands unequivocally behind the phrase ‘black lives matter’ and strongly affirms that all lives matter.”

But, he continued, the movement associated with Black Lives Matter “promotes a platform that directly contradicts Catholic social teaching on the importance and role of the nuclear family and seeks to disrupt the family structure in clear opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church.”

“Both flags are now widely understood to celebrate the human dignity of our relatives, friends and neighbors who have faced, and continue to face hate and discrimination,” Mr. McKenney wrote. “Though any symbol or flag can be co-opted by political groups or organizations, flying our flags is not an endorsement of any organization or ideology,” he said, adding that “they fly in support of marginalized people.”

“This leaves me no other option but to take canonical action,” he continued.

In addition to no longer being able to describe itself as Catholic, the school is not permitted to celebrate Mass on its premises, is barred from engaging in fundraising with diocesan organizations and must remove a previous Worcester bishop from its board of directors.

The move by Bishop McManus to strip the Nativity School of its Catholic label mirrors a similar situation that played out three years ago.

Administrators at the Jesuit-run College of the Holy Cross, which is located in Worcester and has connections to the Nativity School, responded by calling his remarks “deeply hurtful and offensive.” That prompted a reply from the bishop, who repeated his call that all people, including those who are transgender, be treated with compassion and respect. But he stood by his remarks.

“If certain members of the Holy Cross community find this to be hurtful and offensive, then perhaps the college should present clearly what Catholicism teaches regarding Christian anthropology and human sexuality,” he said in 2019.

Personally, I think this bishop is out of touch with Francis.
Bishop forbids Jesuit-run school from calling itself ‘Catholic’ for flying LGBT and Black Lives Matter flags | America Magazine

I think a religious school supporting a racist organization like Black Lives Matter sends a message out of touch with the religious intent.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I think a religious school supporting a racist organization like Black Lives Matter sends a message out of touch with the religious intent.

Black Lives Matter is a movement based around a phrase. Flying a flag to support the idea that the lives of a minority group with a history of horrific mistreatment seems like a good thing for them to do.

 

[PruePhillip]

Bishop forbids Jesuit-run school from calling itself ‘Catholic’ for flying LGBT and Black Lives Matter flags

A standoff between a Jesuit middle school and the bishop of Worcester, Mass., where the school is located, escalated Thursday, after Bishop Robert J. McManus stripped the “Catholic” moniker from the school over its decision to continue flying flags supporting L.G.B.T. pride and Black Lives Matter.
“The flying of these flags in front of a Catholic school sends a mixed, confusing and scandalous message to the public about the Church’s stance on these important moral and social issues,” states a decree issued on June 10 and signed by Bishop McManus. The ruling was posted to the diocese’s website on Thursday.

“These flags simply state that all are welcome at Nativity and this value of inclusion is rooted in Catholic teaching.”

In January 2021, students requested that the school fly a rainbow flag to show support for the L.G.B.T. community and another to support Black Lives Matter. According to the school, the flags remained up for more than a year before the bishop requested they be removed. Shortly after that request, the flags were torn down in an act of vandalism, but the school replaced them.

At issue is what the flags are perceived to symbolize.

Bishop McManus wrote in the decree that the pride flag connoted support for same-sex marriage, which the Catholic Church opposes, and for “actively living a LGBTQ+ lifestyle.”

As for the Black Lives Matter flag, the bishop wrote that “the Catholic Church teaches that all life is sacred and the Church certainly stands unequivocally behind the phrase ‘black lives matter’ and strongly affirms that all lives matter.”

But, he continued, the movement associated with Black Lives Matter “promotes a platform that directly contradicts Catholic social teaching on the importance and role of the nuclear family and seeks to disrupt the family structure in clear opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church.”

“Both flags are now widely understood to celebrate the human dignity of our relatives, friends and neighbors who have faced, and continue to face hate and discrimination,” Mr. McKenney wrote. “Though any symbol or flag can be co-opted by political groups or organizations, flying our flags is not an endorsement of any organization or ideology,” he said, adding that “they fly in support of marginalized people.”

“This leaves me no other option but to take canonical action,” he continued.

In addition to no longer being able to describe itself as Catholic, the school is not permitted to celebrate Mass on its premises, is barred from engaging in fundraising with diocesan organizations and must remove a previous Worcester bishop from its board of directors.

The move by Bishop McManus to strip the Nativity School of its Catholic label mirrors a similar situation that played out three years ago.

Administrators at the Jesuit-run College of the Holy Cross, which is located in Worcester and has connections to the Nativity School, responded by calling his remarks “deeply hurtful and offensive.” That prompted a reply from the bishop, who repeated his call that all people, including those who are transgender, be treated with compassion and respect. But he stood by his remarks.

“If certain members of the Holy Cross community find this to be hurtful and offensive, then perhaps the college should present clearly what Catholicism teaches regarding Christian anthropology and human sexuality,” he said in 2019.

Personally, I think this bishop is out of touch with Francis.
Bishop forbids Jesuit-run school from calling itself ‘Catholic’ for flying LGBT and Black Lives Matter flags | America Magazine

Does this Bishop have to be "in touch" with any secular person or trend?
Does the church lead the people or do people lead the church?
Is the church allowed to maintain a standard, or must it accept divorce, adultery, abortion, euthenasia, drug tolerance, homosexuals, lesbians and children claiming they are sexually animals and want a kitty litter tray in the classroom for them?

 

[pearl]

I think a religious school supporting a racist organization like Black Lives Matter sends a message out of touch with the religious intent.

I think the support is in accepting the reality of who people are and how they define themselves, these children may come from different family makeups, but their needs are no different than anyone else's and should be recognized. Because it does not fit into our perceptions of family seems to be the problem.

 

[PruePhillip]

I think the support is in accepting the reality of who people are and how they define themselves, these children may come from different family makeups, but their needs are no different than anyone else's and should be recognized. Because it does not fit into our perceptions of family seems to be the problem.

I had to laugh. Seems some kids have decided they aren't male, female or trans, but animal trans. Forget the trans- toilets, they want kitty litters in the classroom. And it won't stop there either.

 

[pearl]

Parenthetically, Religious Dispatches is, in my opinion, a worthwhile source in general.

It was a good read.

In Paul' letter to the Romans, the 'abomination' is not homosexual acts, but 'idolatry'.

21for although they knew God they did not accord him glory as God or give him thanks. Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless minds were darkened
22While claiming to be wise, they became fools
23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes

 

[pearl]

The school is now receiving support from The College of the Holy Cross, also a Jesuit school.
“More than three dozen professors and administrators at the Jesuit College of the Holy Cross, along with hundreds of students, are now proclaiming that Catholic opposition to flags which affirm the mortal sin of same-sex relations ‘is ignorant and bigoted’ and that anyone who holds such traditional Catholic beliefs — including the Bishop of Worcester — must be excluded, in the name of inclusion, from participating in the public life of the college,”

However there is a recent Vatican document
On March 29, the Vatican’s Congregation for Catholic Education published “The Identity of the Catholic School for a Culture of Dialogue,” which reaffirmed the principle that to be recognized as a Catholic institution the local bishop’s approval “is required.”

Bishops have direct authority, not indirect influence, over Catholic schools, even if the diocese the bishop leads doesn’t run them, the document states.

“It is the right and duty of the diocesan … Bishop to watch over all Catholic schools in his diocese … including those” founded by religious orders or private groups, the document says, with italics in the original. The document also says the bishop “can intervene whenever he considers it appropriate, and he must do so whenever the Catholic identity of a school situated in his diocese … is seriously affected.”
Dispute Over ‘BLM’ and ‘Pride’ Flags at Mass. Jesuit School Highlights Need to Communicate Catholic Identity| National Catholic Register (ncregister.com)

 

[metis]

I think a religious school supporting a racist organization like Black Lives Matter sends a message out of touch with the religious intent.

BLM simply put, is not a "racist organization" because, contrary to dishonest right-wing tripe, they do not teach that any "race" is superior or inferior to another.

Home - Black Lives Matter

Just for the record, I do not subscribe to all their positions, especially defunding the police.

 

[Sheldon]

Does this Bishop have to be "in touch" with any secular person or trend?
Does the church lead the people or do people lead the church?
Is the church allowed to maintain a standard, or must it accept divorce, adultery, abortion, euthenasia, drug tolerance, homosexuals, lesbians and children claiming they are sexually animals and want a kitty litter tray in the classroom for them?

Thy seemed ok protecting paedophile priests from justice, and even moving them to avoid justice, and thus enabling them to continue raping children in their care. that's some moral standard fair play.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think a religious school supporting a racist organization like Black Lives Matter sends a message out of touch with the religious intent.

And I think that when people say that protesting extradjudicial killings of black people by police is "out of touch with the religious intent," they probably don't realize just how damning this is for "religious intent."

 

[Sheldon]

And I think that when people say that protesting extradjudicial killings of black people by police is "out of touch with the religious intent," they probably don't realize just how damning this is for "religious intent."

I couldn't be bothered to bite to be honest, but I did wonder how advocating racial equality could be labelled racist?

I couldn't find anything remotely racist on their website?

HERE

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I couldn't be bothered to bite to be honest, but I did wonder how advocating racial equality could be labelled racist?

I couldn't find anything remotely racist on their website?

HERE

They're opposed to a racist status quo, which many people are invested in.

Tilting the balance towards equality feels racist when you're blind to the racism in the status quo.

 

[Clara Tea]

Bishop forbids Jesuit-run school from calling itself ‘Catholic’ for flying LGBT and Black Lives Matter flags

A standoff between a Jesuit middle school and the bishop of Worcester, Mass., where the school is located, escalated Thursday, after Bishop Robert J. McManus stripped the “Catholic” moniker from the school over its decision to continue flying flags supporting L.G.B.T. pride and Black Lives Matter.
“The flying of these flags in front of a Catholic school sends a mixed, confusing and scandalous message to the public about the Church’s stance on these important moral and social issues,” states a decree issued on June 10 and signed by Bishop McManus. The ruling was posted to the diocese’s website on Thursday.

“These flags simply state that all are welcome at Nativity and this value of inclusion is rooted in Catholic teaching.”

In January 2021, students requested that the school fly a rainbow flag to show support for the L.G.B.T. community and another to support Black Lives Matter. According to the school, the flags remained up for more than a year before the bishop requested they be removed. Shortly after that request, the flags were torn down in an act of vandalism, but the school replaced them.

At issue is what the flags are perceived to symbolize.

Bishop McManus wrote in the decree that the pride flag connoted support for same-sex marriage, which the Catholic Church opposes, and for “actively living a LGBTQ+ lifestyle.”

As for the Black Lives Matter flag, the bishop wrote that “the Catholic Church teaches that all life is sacred and the Church certainly stands unequivocally behind the phrase ‘black lives matter’ and strongly affirms that all lives matter.”

But, he continued, the movement associated with Black Lives Matter “promotes a platform that directly contradicts Catholic social teaching on the importance and role of the nuclear family and seeks to disrupt the family structure in clear opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church.”

“Both flags are now widely understood to celebrate the human dignity of our relatives, friends and neighbors who have faced, and continue to face hate and discrimination,” Mr. McKenney wrote. “Though any symbol or flag can be co-opted by political groups or organizations, flying our flags is not an endorsement of any organization or ideology,” he said, adding that “they fly in support of marginalized people.”

“This leaves me no other option but to take canonical action,” he continued.

In addition to no longer being able to describe itself as Catholic, the school is not permitted to celebrate Mass on its premises, is barred from engaging in fundraising with diocesan organizations and must remove a previous Worcester bishop from its board of directors.

The move by Bishop McManus to strip the Nativity School of its Catholic label mirrors a similar situation that played out three years ago.

Administrators at the Jesuit-run College of the Holy Cross, which is located in Worcester and has connections to the Nativity School, responded by calling his remarks “deeply hurtful and offensive.” That prompted a reply from the bishop, who repeated his call that all people, including those who are transgender, be treated with compassion and respect. But he stood by his remarks.

“If certain members of the Holy Cross community find this to be hurtful and offensive, then perhaps the college should present clearly what Catholicism teaches regarding Christian anthropology and human sexuality,” he said in 2019.

Personally, I think this bishop is out of touch with Francis.
Bishop forbids Jesuit-run school from calling itself ‘Catholic’ for flying LGBT and Black Lives Matter flags | America Magazine

How dare a Christian be tolerant of God's children!!!!

Only God is the judge. "Judge not, lest ye be judged." We must love all, and it is up to Gays to refrain from Gay sex as Christians.

Not killing (also rooted in Christian teaching). . .yet they support wars, and only National Rifle Association members can get elected by the Religious Right.

Christians don't follow Christ.

 

[Clara Tea]

I couldn't be bothered to bite to be honest, but I did wonder how advocating racial equality could be labelled racist?

I couldn't find anything remotely racist on their website?

HERE

Giving special rights to minorities is racism. The intent is to compensate for racism with racism.

 

[Clara Tea]

That isn't even close to what he said. Being gay harms no one, child abuse on the other hand victimises people in the worst way imaginable, and causes a life long trauma. Anyone who thinks these are remotely comparable has no moral compass.

Then again since the RCC protected priests responsible for the systematic and endemic rape of children in their care for many many years, that we know of, and even moved them to evade justice, and enable them to continue preying on children, suggests it's a morally bankrupt organisation, and rotten the core. Were there any real justice they'd be in the Hague facing trial for crimes against humanity.

I agree. Child-raping priests have unconsentual sex (crime). Gays, on the other hand, have consentual sex (prohibited by the bible, but only God is their judge).

 

[Clara Tea]

The following article on "abomination" may prove useful, although one must admit that it may well be too long and too substantive for your average anti-catholic and/or homophobic bigot.

See: Does the Bible really call Homosexuality an "abomination"?

Parenthetically, Religious Dispatches is, in my opinion, a worthwhile source in general.

I'm too verbose.

 

[Sheldon]

Giving special rights to minorities is racism. The intent is to compensate for racism with racism.

I could see no claims for special rights on their website, only for equality. I am also dubious that positive discrimination is motivated by racism.

 

[Clara Tea]

They're opposed to a racist status quo, which many people are invested in.

Tilting the balance towards equality feels racist when you're blind to the racism in the status quo.

I agree.

We have the same type of balance with the environment. If we desalinate, we dump brine into the ocean and suck eggs into our water filters. So, my proposal is very similar. We need to alter nature to undo the negative changes. An example is off-shore oil platforms that have provided shelters for sea life to thrive. That is, we tip the balance trying to survive, but tip it back artificially by repairing damage from our incursions.

Those in the wrong usually don't see the harm that they do.

 

[Clara Tea]

I could see no claims for special rights on their website, only for equality. I am also dubious that positive discrimination is motivated by racism.

I agree that Black Lives Matter and Gay Rights don't try for special rights. However, President W. Bush, who was very proud of hiring minorities, tried to cancel affirmative action, on the grounds that it was discriminatory.

Reverend Martin Luther King Junior said "I have a dream that some day my four young children will be judged, not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." Affirmative action rewards them for their skin color, but only because it compensates for them losing out because bigots attack them.

Another issue is starting state. President W. Bush started his political career as the son of a president, and with the ears of heads of state around the world. Some poor Black kid doesn't have that advantage. Everyone knew the family of the president, so that notoriety also worked in his favor to get elected. Though most wealthy families of the Civil War might have lost their fortunes (plantations went broke), some privileged Whites have inherited much wealth. Poor Black kids, from the inner city don't have that advantage.

Reverend Jesse Jackson, and Reverend Louis Farrakhan both insisted that affirmative action should be cancelled. This is because Blacks are smart enough to make it on their own, and because once a Black person graduates, they will often be perceived as uneducated, but boosted up to have a better education (perceived to have good credentials, but not educated). Jackson and Farrakhan felt that Blacks would be respected more if they had to struggle without affirmative action.

If we look at society, we see slums, mostly filled with minorities. Grafitti and vandalism is rife. They pay more for repairs that rich neighborhoods, but yet get more crimes. It is cheaper to live in a good neighborhood. But many are trapped by poverty.

Song "Skid Row" from the musical "Little Shop of Horrors."

President George H. W. Bush (W. Bush's dad) started his political career in the former Confererate state of Texas, on the sole platform of eliminating the newly established Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Civil Rights Act of 1965. Bush was wildly popular for his anti-Black proposals.