Disappointed in our bishop

[Sheldon]

I agree that Black Lives Matter and Gay Rights don't try for special rights. However, President W. Bush, who was very proud of hiring minorities, tried to cancel affirmative action, on the grounds that it was discriminatory.

Reverend Martin Luther King Junior said "I have a dream that some day my four young children will be judged, not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." Affirmative action rewards them for their skin color, but only because it compensates for them losing out because bigots attack them.

Another issue is starting state. President W. Bush started his political career as the son of a president, and with the ears of heads of state around the world. Some poor Black kid doesn't have that advantage. Everyone knew the family of the president, so that notoriety also worked in his favor to get elected. Though most wealthy families of the Civil War might have lost their fortunes (plantations went broke), some privileged Whites have inherited much wealth. Poor Black kids, from the inner city don't have that advantage.

Reverend Jesse Jackson, and Reverend Louis Farrakhan both insisted that affirmative action should be cancelled. This is because Blacks are smart enough to make it on their own, and because once a Black person graduates, they will often be perceived as uneducated, but boosted up to have a better education (perceived to have good credentials, but not educated). Jackson and Farrakhan felt that Blacks would be respected more if they had to struggle without affirmative action.

If we look at society, we see slums, mostly filled with minorities. Grafitti and vandalism is rife. They pay more for repairs that rich neighborhoods, but yet get more crimes. It is cheaper to live in a good neighborhood. But many are trapped by poverty.

Song "Skid Row" from the musical "Little Shop of Horrors."

President George H. W. Bush (W. Bush's dad) started his political career in the former Confererate state of Texas, on the sole platform of eliminating the newly established Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Civil Rights Act of 1965. Bush was wildly popular for his anti-Black proposals.

How does any of that make the BLM movement racist?

 

[PruePhillip]

Thy seemed ok protecting paedophile priests from justice, and even moving them to avoid justice, and thus enabling them to continue raping children in their care. that's some moral standard fair play.

These 'priests' who fiddle with kids - there are no priests in the New Testament, just as there are no cathedrals, monasteries, pilgrims, rosary beads, nuns, Crusades, purgatory or Inquisitions. IMO such priests have a double curse upon them - making their own religion and using it to abuse children.

 

[blü 2]

Bishop forbids Jesuit-run school from calling itself ‘Catholic’ for flying LGBT and Black Lives Matter flags

A standoff between a Jesuit middle school and the bishop of Worcester, Mass., where the school is located, escalated Thursday, after Bishop Robert J. McManus stripped the “Catholic” moniker from the school over its decision to continue flying flags supporting L.G.B.T. pride and Black Lives Matter.
“The flying of these flags in front of a Catholic school sends a mixed, confusing and scandalous message to the public about the Church’s stance on these important moral and social issues,” states a decree issued on June 10 and signed by Bishop McManus. The ruling was posted to the diocese’s website on Thursday.

“These flags simply state that all are welcome at Nativity and this value of inclusion is rooted in Catholic teaching.”

In January 2021, students requested that the school fly a rainbow flag to show support for the L.G.B.T. community and another to support Black Lives Matter. According to the school, the flags remained up for more than a year before the bishop requested they be removed. Shortly after that request, the flags were torn down in an act of vandalism, but the school replaced them.

At issue is what the flags are perceived to symbolize.

Bishop McManus wrote in the decree that the pride flag connoted support for same-sex marriage, which the Catholic Church opposes, and for “actively living a LGBTQ+ lifestyle.”

As for the Black Lives Matter flag, the bishop wrote that “the Catholic Church teaches that all life is sacred and the Church certainly stands unequivocally behind the phrase ‘black lives matter’ and strongly affirms that all lives matter.”

But, he continued, the movement associated with Black Lives Matter “promotes a platform that directly contradicts Catholic social teaching on the importance and role of the nuclear family and seeks to disrupt the family structure in clear opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church.”

“Both flags are now widely understood to celebrate the human dignity of our relatives, friends and neighbors who have faced, and continue to face hate and discrimination,” Mr. McKenney wrote. “Though any symbol or flag can be co-opted by political groups or organizations, flying our flags is not an endorsement of any organization or ideology,” he said, adding that “they fly in support of marginalized people.”

“This leaves me no other option but to take canonical action,” he continued.

In addition to no longer being able to describe itself as Catholic, the school is not permitted to celebrate Mass on its premises, is barred from engaging in fundraising with diocesan organizations and must remove a previous Worcester bishop from its board of directors.

The move by Bishop McManus to strip the Nativity School of its Catholic label mirrors a similar situation that played out three years ago.

Administrators at the Jesuit-run College of the Holy Cross, which is located in Worcester and has connections to the Nativity School, responded by calling his remarks “deeply hurtful and offensive.” That prompted a reply from the bishop, who repeated his call that all people, including those who are transgender, be treated with compassion and respect. But he stood by his remarks.

“If certain members of the Holy Cross community find this to be hurtful and offensive, then perhaps the college should present clearly what Catholicism teaches regarding Christian anthropology and human sexuality,” he said in 2019.

Personally, I think this bishop is out of touch with Francis.
Bishop forbids Jesuit-run school from calling itself ‘Catholic’ for flying LGBT and Black Lives Matter flags | America Magazine

I keep banging on my drum marked 'Decency, respect and inclusion'.

Since the bishop uses doctrine to oppose inclusion, I'm not on his side.

Although I'd be delighted to see Borgoglio intervene on the side of the Good Guys, I'd also be very surprised.

 

[Sheldon]

Thy seemed ok protecting paedophile priests from justice, and even moving them to avoid justice, and thus enabling them to continue raping children in their care. that's some moral standard fair play.

These 'priests' who fiddle with kids - there are no priests in the New Testament, just as there are no cathedrals, monasteries, pilgrims, rosary beads, nuns, Crusades, purgatory or Inquisitions. IMO such priests have a double curse upon them - making their own religion and using it to abuse children.

This has nothing to do with your claim though, you said:

Is the church allowed to maintain a standard, or must it accept divorce, adultery, abortion, euthenasia, drug tolerance, homosexuals, lesbians

And I pointed out the church's standard didn't seem to have any problem protecting paedophile priests from justice, and even moving them to avoid justice, and thus enabling them to continue raping children in their care for many years.

So you seem to be missing the point, which is that the church seems to have a very odd standard for what is acceptable, since raping children is about as pernicious an act I can imagine, whereas as being gay harms no one. or perhaps like the church you think raping children is morally defensible, and being gay is not? Your list of non-sequiturs has no relevance to that point that I can see?

 

[pearl]

Although I'd be delighted to see Borgoglio intervene on the side of the Good Guys, I'd also be very surprised.

I hope he does but may be wishful thinking.

"At the same time, after meaningful deliberation and discernment by its board, leadership team, faculty, and partners, Nativity will continue to display the flags in question to give visible witness to the school's solidarity with our students, families, and their communities. Commitment to our mission, grounded and animated by Gospel values, Catholic Social Teaching, and our Jesuit heritage compels us to do so."

The senior administration of Worcester's Jesuit-run College of the Holy Cross developed the school, which opened in 2003 to address low graduation rates among boys who come from economically insecure homes.
quoted from the Arch Diocese of Boston's 'Pilot' news publication.
Echoes - A forum of Catholic thought. The Opinion section of thebostonpilot.com

"Pope Francis has praised the outreach and inclusion of LGBTQ+ people. The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops supports the spirit and movement of 'Black Lives Matter.' Both flags are now widely understood to celebrate the human dignity of our relatives, friends and neighbors who have faced, and continue to face hate and discrimination."

 

[metis]

Christians don't follow Christ.

That's what Gandhi lamented when he said all too many Christians elevated the man and forgot his message.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Bishop forbids Jesuit-run school from calling itself ‘Catholic’ for flying LGBT and Black Lives Matter flags

A standoff between a Jesuit middle school and the bishop of Worcester, Mass., where the school is located, escalated Thursday, after Bishop Robert J. McManus stripped the “Catholic” moniker from the school over its decision to continue flying flags supporting L.G.B.T. pride and Black Lives Matter.
“The flying of these flags in front of a Catholic school sends a mixed, confusing and scandalous message to the public about the Church’s stance on these important moral and social issues,” states a decree issued on June 10 and signed by Bishop McManus. The ruling was posted to the diocese’s website on Thursday.

“These flags simply state that all are welcome at Nativity and this value of inclusion is rooted in Catholic teaching.”

In January 2021, students requested that the school fly a rainbow flag to show support for the L.G.B.T. community and another to support Black Lives Matter. According to the school, the flags remained up for more than a year before the bishop requested they be removed. Shortly after that request, the flags were torn down in an act of vandalism, but the school replaced them.

At issue is what the flags are perceived to symbolize.

Bishop McManus wrote in the decree that the pride flag connoted support for same-sex marriage, which the Catholic Church opposes, and for “actively living a LGBTQ+ lifestyle.”

As for the Black Lives Matter flag, the bishop wrote that “the Catholic Church teaches that all life is sacred and the Church certainly stands unequivocally behind the phrase ‘black lives matter’ and strongly affirms that all lives matter.”

But, he continued, the movement associated with Black Lives Matter “promotes a platform that directly contradicts Catholic social teaching on the importance and role of the nuclear family and seeks to disrupt the family structure in clear opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church.”

“Both flags are now widely understood to celebrate the human dignity of our relatives, friends and neighbors who have faced, and continue to face hate and discrimination,” Mr. McKenney wrote. “Though any symbol or flag can be co-opted by political groups or organizations, flying our flags is not an endorsement of any organization or ideology,” he said, adding that “they fly in support of marginalized people.”

“This leaves me no other option but to take canonical action,” he continued.

In addition to no longer being able to describe itself as Catholic, the school is not permitted to celebrate Mass on its premises, is barred from engaging in fundraising with diocesan organizations and must remove a previous Worcester bishop from its board of directors.

The move by Bishop McManus to strip the Nativity School of its Catholic label mirrors a similar situation that played out three years ago.

Administrators at the Jesuit-run College of the Holy Cross, which is located in Worcester and has connections to the Nativity School, responded by calling his remarks “deeply hurtful and offensive.” That prompted a reply from the bishop, who repeated his call that all people, including those who are transgender, be treated with compassion and respect. But he stood by his remarks.

“If certain members of the Holy Cross community find this to be hurtful and offensive, then perhaps the college should present clearly what Catholicism teaches regarding Christian anthropology and human sexuality,” he said in 2019.

Personally, I think this bishop is out of touch with Francis.
Bishop forbids Jesuit-run school from calling itself ‘Catholic’ for flying LGBT and Black Lives Matter flags | America Magazine

I agree completely with what the Bishop did. Kudos to him taking his job and position seriously and not being intimidated.

 

[pearl]

I agree completely with what the Bishop did. Kudos to him taking his job and position seriously and not being intimidated.

Intimated by the inclusive teaching of Vat II, Pope Francis, Jesus' association with sinners?

 

[metis]

I agree completely with what the Bishop did. Kudos to him taking his job and position seriously and not being intimidated.

Or was he just playing politics?

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Intimated by the inclusive teaching of Vat II, Pope Francis, Jesus' association with sinners?

I don't remember the Lord Jesus Christ raising anyone's flags - but if He did - I believe He would raise God's and only God's.

I don't see where this Bishop claimed that none of these "sinners" could not attend their services or otherwise be associated with the Church.

They just can't stick their flags in the Church - literally.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Or was he just playing politics?

Even if he was - what he said was true.

You are free to apply some political motive to it - if you want.

 

[pearl]

They just can't stick their flags in the Church - literally.

I guess one is following the 'letter' of the law, the other following the spirit of inclusiveness, exemplified by the bishop of Rome.

 

[metis]

Even if he was - what he said was true.

You are free to apply some political motive to it - if you want.

So, you don't mind if he was just taking a position of partisan politics versus Catholic social teachings? I don't recall Jesus or the Church condemning flags or LGBT people or blacks.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

I guess one is following the 'letter' of the law, the other following the spirit of inclusiveness, exemplified by the bishop of Rome.

What is the "spirit of inclusiveness"?

I didn't see that mentioned in the Bible.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

So, you don't mind if he was just taking a position of partisan politics versus Catholic social teachings?

That's not possibel though considering that what he said agrees with what the Catholic Church teaches and believes.

If what the Catholic Church teaches and believes happens to line up with one side of the political issue - then so be it - but that doesn't mean he was speaking politically.

He spoke accurately about what the Catholic Church teaches and believes - all are welcome - but they only support causes and organizations that they believe God wants them to support.

I don't recall Jesus or the Church condemning flags or LGBT people or blacks.

When did this Bishop condemn flags, Alphabet or Black people?

He accurately pointed out that the Catholic Church opposes "same-sex marriage" because they believe and teach that homosexuality is sinful.

Therefore - the Church should not be promoting any group or organization that acts and teaches contrary to the teachings of the Catholic Church.

So - no Pride flags flying above Catholic Churches.

All sinners are welcome to join them in worship in their churches - but the only flag they should be flying are those they believe God supports.

Rejecting the Black Lives Matter organization - specifically their stated mission to "disrupt the nuclear family" - is not a condemnation of Black people at all.

BLM does not represent Black people.

That would be like claiming that someone who rejects the KKK is somehow condemning White people.

The KK does not represent White people.

The Catholic Church has always encouraged the nuclear family - that it is the best and most stable home for all children - and it was designed by God.

So - no BLM flags flying above Catholic Churches.

All sinners are welcome to join them in worship in their churches - but the only flag they should be flying are those they believe God supports.

 

[metis]

That's not possibel though considering that what he said agrees with what the Catholic Church teaches and believes.

If what the Catholic Church teaches and believes happens to line up with one side of the political issue - then so be it - but that doesn't mean he was speaking politically.

He spoke accurately about what the Catholic Church teaches and believes - all are welcome - but they only support causes and organizations that they believe God wants them to support.

When did this Bishop condemn flags, Alphabet or Black people?

He accurately pointed out that the Catholic Church opposes "same-sex marriage" because they believe and teach that homosexuality is sinful.

Therefore - the Church should not be promoting any group or organization that acts and teaches contrary to the teachings of the Catholic Church.

So - no Pride flags flying above Catholic Churches.

All sinners are welcome to join them in worship in their churches - but the only flag they should be flying are those they believe God supports.

Rejecting the Black Lives Matter organization - specifically their stated mission to "disrupt the nuclear family" - is not a condemnation of Black people at all.

BLM does not represent Black people.

That would be like claiming that someone who rejects the KKK is somehow condemning White people.

The KK does not represent White people.

The Catholic Church has always encouraged the nuclear family - that it is the best and most stable home for all children - and it was designed by God.

So - no BLM flags flying above Catholic Churches.

All sinners are welcome to join them in worship in their churches - but the only flag they should be flying are those they believe God supports.

So, the Jesuits there are not supposedly aware of this? What about recognizing people even if they have a different sexual orientation and/or race? Are all groups that don't 100% recognize Catholic teachings to be shunned?

Personally, I don't agree with some of their positions, but then I question many other teachings as well, including some within the Church.

 

[pearl]

I didn't see that mentioned in the Bible.

Tax collectors, prostitutes, and sinners. It is the righteous who Jesus avoided.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Does this Bishop have to be "in touch" with any secular person or trend?
Does the church lead the people or do people lead the church?
Is the church allowed to maintain a standard, or must it accept divorce, adultery, abortion, euthenasia, drug tolerance, homosexuals, lesbians and children claiming they are sexually animals and want a kitty litter tray in the classroom for them?

Why maintain standards Jesus didn’t have?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I had to laugh. Seems some kids have decided they aren't male, female or trans, but animal trans. Forget the trans- toilets, they want kitty litters in the classroom. And it won't stop there either.

Can you provide neurological testing showing that their brains are cat-like? If not, they are bs’ing people, unlike real trans people.

 

[metis]

Tax collectors, prostitutes, and sinners. It is the righteous who Jesus avoided.

I think you mean "self-righteous".