Disappointed in our bishop

[Sheldon]

as woke shows you these days, morality has become deeply political and highly subjective.

Nope, politics and morality are and have always been inextricably linked, and human morals are and have always been subjective, they cannot be otherwise.

 

[Sheldon]

When did I say that ???????

I don't spend all day 'fact checking'

 

[PruePhillip]

Yeah, sure... I did.
Do you spend all day fact checking?

 

[PruePhillip]

Nope, politics and morality are and have always been inextricably linked, and human morals are and have always been subjective, they cannot be otherwise.

What politics do you see in the four Gospels?

 

[Sheldon]

Yeah, sure... I did.
Do you spend all day fact checking?

Well you said it, I only quoted it, you can use the link for proper context. To answer your question, I never knowingly present as fact anything I have not fact checked, it would not even occur to me to do so.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Does this Bishop have to be "in touch" with any secular person or trend?
Does the church lead the people or do people lead the church?
Is the church allowed to maintain a standard, or must it accept divorce, adultery, abortion, euthenasia, drug tolerance, homosexuals, lesbians and children claiming they are sexually animals and want a kitty litter tray in the classroom for them?

Here's the bargain that the Catholic Church - or any church - gets:

They can impose whatever rules they want on their own members, provided that those members are there of their own free will and are free to leave.

However, if they do certain things, these are an invitation on the part of the church for outsider to interfere in the church's affairs:

- try to impose their views on non-members
- try to impose their views on members who have been coerced into staying
- take public money (or subsidized goods or services)

So it's up to them. Turnabout is fair play: if a church is going to try to dictate the laws that an atheist like me is forced to live under, then I'll try to dictate rules for the church to live under.

 

[Sheldon]

What politics do you see in the four Gospels?

Well they're just hearsay stories, why do you ask? Obviously the narratives suggest Jesus was very concerned with the politics of his day.

 

[GardenLady]

I think a religious school supporting a racist organization like Black Lives Matter sends a message out of touch with the religious intent.

A substantial number of White people in this country have always been outraged by Black people complaining about how they are treated. On what basis do you call a group objecting to historic and systemic mistreatment "racist"?

 

[GardenLady]

Seems to me that the Jesuits have sufficient financial resources to blow off the bishop and be an independent Jesuit school unaffiliated with the archdiocese.

 

[PruePhillip]

Well they're just hearsay stories, why do you ask? Obviously the narratives suggest Jesus was very concerned with the politics of his day.

Is the story of Hannibal hearsay? No evidence for it.
Was Socrates a myth? No evidence for the guy.

The people of the bible had no dealings with politics - period. That famous admonition, 'Render to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's' is the closest Jesus came to being 'political.' In other words respect the laws of the land, leaders and put there by God and if it's God's will they be gone or conduct policy differently, that is God's issue.
I love that thought.

 

[PruePhillip]

Here's the bargain that the Catholic Church - or any church - gets:

They can impose whatever rules they want on their own members, provided that those members are there of their own free will and are free to leave.

However, if they do certain things, these are an invitation on the part of the church for outsider to interfere in the church's affairs:

- try to impose their views on non-members
- try to impose their views on members who have been coerced into staying
- take public money (or subsidized goods or services)

So it's up to them. Turnabout is fair play: if a church is going to try to dictate the laws that an atheist like me is forced to live under, then I'll try to dictate rules for the church to live under.

Sure. I recall there's a bridge in Europe where the Catholics hung people up on each of the lamp poles on that bridge - people who would not convert to Catholicism. Now that's wicked. Murder in fact. Don't want to be in the shoes of whoever dictated that policy.
I am a bible reading Christian, Frankly I have no idea about Roman Catholicism, most of its ideas are not in the bible.

 

[Sheldon]

Is the story of Hannibal hearsay? No evidence for it.
Was Socrates a myth? No evidence for the guy.

The people of the bible had no dealings with politics - period. That famous admonition, 'Render to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's' is the closest Jesus came to being 'political.' In other words respect the laws of the land, leaders and put there by God and if it's God's will they be gone or conduct policy differently, that is God's issue.
I love that thought.

Do you like ice cream?

 

[GardenLady]

Frankly I have no idea about Roman Catholicism, most of its ideas are not in the bible.

No idea, indeed. The great majority of RC doctrines come from the bible. Yes, there are those that do not. But the great majority do.

 

[metis]

How is not allowing a certain flag to fly "shunning" any people?

Did this Bishop claim that LGBT or Black people cannot enter Catholic Churches and worship with there?

Great - wouldn't it be a kick in the pants if someone claimed that you were "shunning" people just because you weren't flying a particular flag over your home?

But this is the point I was making, and part of this why is the bishop reversing a decision made by a particular university run by some Catholic clergy? Where's the freedom of expression there? So, what if they flew the flags?

 

[GardenLady]

Where's the freedom of expression there?

Um... we're talking about the Catholic church here. An expectation of "freedom of expression" is unrealistic.

 

[metis]

Um... we're talking about the Catholic church here. An expectation of "freedom of expression" is unrealistic.

All denominations have their limitations even though they draw lines at different levels. Within Catholicism, personal discernment is very important, whereas Protestants historically tended to split into splinter groups over disputes, which includes the Lutheran tradition.

 

[GardenLady]

Within Catholicism, personal discernment is very important,

On a personal level, yes, in theory (though the uber-Catholics would say that if one's discernment disagrees with the church, then one's conscience is not properly formed). But on an institutional level, there is a much stronger history of demanding orthodoxy from schools, especially below the collegiate level.

 

[metis]

On a personal level, yes, in theory

Not in theory but in reality in today's world at least.

(though the uber-Catholics would say that if one's discernment disagrees with the church, then one's conscience is not properly formed). But on an institutional level, there is a much stronger history of demanding orthodoxy from schools, especially below the collegiate level.

Yes.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Sure. I recall there's a bridge in Europe where the Catholics hung people up on each of the lamp poles on that bridge - people who would not convert to Catholicism. Now that's wicked. Murder in fact. Don't want to be in the shoes of whoever dictated that policy.

Pretty much any Christian denomination that's had enough political power to gruesomely execute apostates has gruesomely executed apostates.

I am a bible reading Christian, Frankly I have no idea about Roman Catholicism, most of its ideas are not in the bible.

I haven't found a Christian denomination yet - or even an individual Christian - that this isn't true for, IMO.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Which principle of logic does Godwin's law violate and why?

It has been known as reductio ad hitlerum - or reductio ad absurdum - or an association fallacy.

I know, hence my observation that no one knows what Jesus did or did not do, since all we have are the unsubstantiated hearsay claims in the bible.

An irrelevant observation to make in a discussion about whether or not the actions of a Catholic Bishop violated a supposed teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ.

That's like someone saying in a discussion about evolution - "Evolution is just a theory" - in an asinine attempt to derail any discussion about evolution.

It's just dumb and pointless.

No point, it's a simple concept, if you haven't grasped it by now.

We are all used to your comments lacking substance - no use breaking that trend now - eh?

It was a refutation of your claim it addressed, I quoted the claim for you. I can't really simplify it anymore.

No - it wasn't a refutation at all.

Which is why I asked, "So?" - as in - "So what?"

There are a lot of things not mentioned in the Bible - that doesn't refute what is in it.

If you want to judge a Catholic Bishop by what is contained in the Bible - you cannot reference things that are not included in the Bible.

That makes no sense.

Yes, of course, you didn't know this? Have you actually read the bible, because it certainly endorses slavery, and sex trafficking, and ethnic cleansing, and global genocidal floods. I have even seen theists on here state plainly these things were not immoral as nothing their version of the biblical deity does can be immoral, a pretty worrying claim at that. William Lane Craig is a vociferous public defender of biblical genocide, he sees nothing wrong with it.

Where are these things endorsed in the Bible?

I am at a loss as to why they want to align themselves with a global paedophile ring anyway.

Again - ask them - but I assume it is based on aspirations for world domination.

Thank you for that very graphic image, it appears you have given it some though???

Not really - you can gain that insight from a single image of any Pride parade or spend one minute on social media.