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Discussing Hinduism

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Next week I am leading a 2 hour group discussion on hinduism in a group of 10 people. Its a weekly study of major world religions based on a book by Stephen Prothero. I will be briefly discussing certain sections from the Upanisads, Gita and some poetic works of Bhakti saints to provide a brief flavor to the various aspects of Hinduism.

If you have small sections from other scriptures that you particularly like, please refer them to me (with a brief explanation of what the scripture means in context).
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
Ramayana pictures the whole gamut of life of an individual, while the Upanishads for example trend towards the lofty thoughts that typically occur at the end of one's life though I do not want to make any assumptions that such vision can occur anytime in life even with a child.

But my point being, the Ramayana is not to be left out in any discussion of Hinduism simply because it has mingled with the collective conscience of people and PRECISELY because The Holy Story of Ram pictures the whole gamut of life of an individual and connects in the hearts of people WHO LIVE THE GAMUT OF LIFE on a daily basis.

The story is so epic, and so human while at the same God and Human and ALL LIFE including demons, that is why most resonate and "color themselves into it" once they began to take it in. Human life CAN be both human AND EPIC - this is another drawing factor of the Ramayana that attracts humans to it.

This attraction to the Ramayana drew deep colors into the ethos of Mother India. In fact the Ramayana is also the GEOGRAPHY of India as well, and Ram travels from North to South to eventually Sri Lanka. So many tirthas were established ALL OVER INDIA by this great Lord and because of Ramayana. Who could not deny it?

Yet the Ramayana is SO MUCH A GAMUT OF HUMAN LIFE and the EPIC desires of the soul, it can become an ethos of all, no matter where one lives. When South Indians brought Ramayana to South East Asia, to Cambodia and Thailand, it connect with the people, even today Thai Kings are identified with Lord Ram. Today, Ramayana is touching the hearts of Americans, and so on, it will go to the Moon and other planets as humans travel into outer space.

So a brief quote from the Ramayana in context of Hinduism I think should not be forgotten.

Here is one.

Only a person’s conduct and character proclaim whether he is born in a good family or whether he is boasting about himself or whether he is unblemished (shuchih) or blemished (ashuchih). Just as people are afraid of serpents they are afraid of persons who utter lies. Truth controls this world and dharma is rooted in truth.

Purport (IMHO): Rama said this to Maharshi Jabali who advises him to ignore his father’s wishes and go back to Ayodhya. Ram defended his resolve to do what his father said which was to go to the forest to live in exile, Ram stood fast to continue the epic of His life even before Jabali a Hindu renunciate who spent many years meditating on the banks of the Narmada River but argued that discarding the kingdom at His father’s request and taking shelter in inaccessible and dangerous forests is not Ram's duty, that Lord Ram should return to prosperous Ayodhya. Yet Ram continued on in the Epic of His life and of all humans, to meet with Lord Hanuman the Monkey-God and assemble a great army and then head further South. The epic continued, the gamut of life lived. Most all humans establish a connection with Ram long remembered but less remembered is Jabali who is largely remembered if only because of Ram and the Wonders of Him and the Wonders of India itself, and to go deeper into the jungle is in a way, an adventure back home into the human soul.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Let me post my favorite line of Valmiki's Ramayana in addition to what ShivaFan has said wherein Lord Rama defines truth as Supreme.

"Satyam eva ishwaro loke, satyam dharmah sadashrita;
satya moolani sarvani, satyen nasti param padam."

(Truth is God in the universe, in truth 'dharma' finds good refuge;
all have their base in truth, there is no station higher than truth.)

Not that 'God is truth', an oft repeated saying, but that 'truth is God'. That makes a world of difference.
And because of that, I have become an atheist Hindu.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Let me post my favorite line of Valmiki's Ramayana in addition to what ShivaFan has said wherein Lord Rama defines truth as Supreme.

"Satyam eva ishwaro loke, satyam dharmah sadashrita;
satya moolani sarvani, satyen nasti param padam."

(Truth is God in the universe, in truth 'dharma' finds good refuge;
all have their base in truth, there is no station higher than truth.)

Not that 'God is truth', an oft repeated saying, but that 'truth is God'. That makes a world of difference.
And because of that, I have become an atheist Hindu.
Thank you. I will incorporate this in my discussion.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Ramayana pictures the whole gamut of life of an individual, while the Upanishads for example trend towards the lofty thoughts that typically occur at the end of one's life though I do not want to make any assumptions that such vision can occur anytime in life even with a child.

But my point being, the Ramayana is not to be left out in any discussion of Hinduism simply because it has mingled with the collective conscience of people and PRECISELY because The Holy Story of Ram pictures the whole gamut of life of an individual and connects in the hearts of people WHO LIVE THE GAMUT OF LIFE on a daily basis.

The story is so epic, and so human while at the same God and Human and ALL LIFE including demons, that is why most resonate and "color themselves into it" once they began to take it in. Human life CAN be both human AND EPIC - this is another drawing factor of the Ramayana that attracts humans to it.

This attraction to the Ramayana drew deep colors into the ethos of Mother India. In fact the Ramayana is also the GEOGRAPHY of India as well, and Ram travels from North to South to eventually Sri Lanka. So many tirthas were established ALL OVER INDIA by this great Lord and because of Ramayana. Who could not deny it?

Yet the Ramayana is SO MUCH A GAMUT OF HUMAN LIFE and the EPIC desires of the soul, it can become an ethos of all, no matter where one lives. When South Indians brought Ramayana to South East Asia, to Cambodia and Thailand, it connect with the people, even today Thai Kings are identified with Lord Ram. Today, Ramayana is touching the hearts of Americans, and so on, it will go to the Moon and other planets as humans travel into outer space.

So a brief quote from the Ramayana in context of Hinduism I think should not be forgotten.

Here is one.

Only a person’s conduct and character proclaim whether he is born in a good family or whether he is boasting about himself or whether he is unblemished (shuchih) or blemished (ashuchih). Just as people are afraid of serpents they are afraid of persons who utter lies. Truth controls this world and dharma is rooted in truth.

Purport (IMHO): Rama said this to Maharshi Jabali who advises him to ignore his father’s wishes and go back to Ayodhya. Ram defended his resolve to do what his father said which was to go to the forest to live in exile, Ram stood fast to continue the epic of His life even before Jabali a Hindu renunciate who spent many years meditating on the banks of the Narmada River but argued that discarding the kingdom at His father’s request and taking shelter in inaccessible and dangerous forests is not Ram's duty, that Lord Ram should return to prosperous Ayodhya. Yet Ram continued on in the Epic of His life and of all humans, to meet with Lord Hanuman the Monkey-God and assemble a great army and then head further South. The epic continued, the gamut of life lived. Most all humans establish a connection with Ram long remembered but less remembered is Jabali who is largely remembered if only because of Ram and the Wonders of Him and the Wonders of India itself, and to go deeper into the jungle is in a way, an adventure back home into the human soul.
I have read the Ramayana but prefer the Mahabharata a bit more which I find provides a richer analysis of dharma and the human condition. But I will certainly incorporate this quote and your descriptions in my discussions. Thanks.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Next week I am leading a 2 hour group discussion on hinduism in a group of 10 people. Its a weekly study of major world religions based on a book by Stephen Prothero. I will be briefly discussing certain sections from the Upanisads, Gita and some poetic works of Bhakti saints to provide a brief flavor to the various aspects of Hinduism.
Boy, did you draw the short stick.:rolleyes:
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
also when you get into discussions about church/xstianity , you should raise a point on physical and spiritual abuse on small kids by catholic priests.........When i am typing this basically, somewhere right now a priest is molesting a child
Umm, what does it have to do with a discussion on Hinduism?
 

Shantanu

Well-Known Member
Let me post my favorite line of Valmiki's Ramayana in addition to what ShivaFan has said wherein Lord Rama defines truth as Supreme.

"Satyam eva ishwaro loke, satyam dharmah sadashrita;
satya moolani sarvani, satyen nasti param padam."

(Truth is God in the universe, in truth 'dharma' finds good refuge;
all have their base in truth, there is no station higher than truth.)

Not that 'God is truth', an oft repeated saying, but that 'truth is God'. That makes a world of difference.
And because of that, I have become an atheist Hindu.
Through yoga, we may be lucky enough to come to know that God alone knows everything and can provide the individual with the truths that he or she needs to live his life in ways that satisfies his/her needs.
 
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shivsomashekhar

Well-Known Member
Next week I am leading a 2 hour group discussion on hinduism in a group of 10 people. Its a weekly study of major world religions based on a book by Stephen Prothero. I will be briefly discussing certain sections from the Upanisads, Gita and some poetic works of Bhakti saints to provide a brief flavor to the various aspects of Hinduism.

If you have small sections from other scriptures that you particularly like, please refer them to me (with a brief explanation of what the scripture means in context).

If the topic of discussion is Hinduism, then I would not discuss scripture. The typical Hindu gets his/her religion as a matter of legacy. Scripture often plays little or no role in the matter. The Gods worshiped, the method of worship, the temples visited, the festivals, the expectations - are in most cases not obtained from scripture. The role of scripture in Hinduism is highly overrated by Westerners.

I would discuss the popular places of worship (Tirupathi, Kashi, Hardwar,etc.,), popular Hindu festivals like Diwali/Deepavali, Ganesha, Durga Pooja, etc., and touch upon the currently popular Gods. These are very relevant to Hinduism as it is today and how it is commonly practiced. And these are not the topics that one draws from scripture.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
If the topic of discussion is Hinduism, then I would not discuss scripture. The typical Hindu gets his/her religion as a matter of legacy. Scripture often plays little or no role in the matter. The Gods worshiped, the method of worship, the temples visited, the festivals, the expectations - are in most cases not obtained from scripture. The role of scripture in Hinduism is highly overrated by Westerners.

I would discuss the popular places of worship (Tirupathi, Kashi, Hardwar,etc.,), popular Hindu festivals like Diwali/Deepavali, Ganesha, Durga Pooja, etc., and touch upon the currently popular Gods. These are very relevant to Hinduism as it is today and how it is commonly practiced. And these are not the topics that one draws from scripture.
I will be showing a short video showing a typical puja festival in south india. I will have little difficulty in explaining popular forms of worship. However, it is perhaps not widely realized that the ideas behind the popular forms of worship a person does in a temple or in her own home are fairly continuous with the ideas and conception of god and god-human relationships found in the scriptures. Just because most Hindus learn the mode of worship and relating to god from their peers by seeing them practice does not mean that the principles on which their worship is based on is not found in the scriptures.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Sayak83, you have a problem here. What type of Hinduism will you describe? Atheist/Theist/polytheist/or some where between the two? Vaishnava, Shaiva, Shakta, Smarta, Tantrik. And the various sects in each of these ways. I wish you the best of exposition.
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
I will be showing a short video showing a typical puja festival in south india. I will have little difficulty in explaining popular forms of worship. However, it is perhaps not widely realized that the ideas behind the popular forms of worship a person does in a temple or in her own home are fairly continuous with the ideas and conception of god and god-human relationships found in the scriptures. Just because most Hindus learn the mode of worship and relating to god from their peers by seeing them practice does not mean that the principles on which their worship is based on is not found in the scriptures.

I agree mostly. Furthermore, the reasons for an indigenous Hindu to engage with rituals and reasons for a seeker from a different culture may not be same.

On the other hand, attainment of stability of mind is pretty much the common thread through much of Hinduism and also Buddhism. IMO, Arjuna's steadfastness and immaculate concentration was the reason that Bhagavan revealed Gita to him. The Yoga Sutras is a non sectarian practical scripture that helps here. Especially, the yama and niyama prescriptions are the foundations for a practitioner of Hinduism. Similarly, Gita is the essence of all upanishads containing teachings for all kinds of seekers of all levels: bhakta-s, yogi-s or for those practising jnana yoga. A seeker will likely find a message appropriate for his level of understanding in Gita. (However, it is my personal opinion that one should avoid a particular translation that is often peddled with messianic zeal by a particular sect.)
 
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atanu

Member
Premium Member
Let me post my favorite line of Valmiki's Ramayana in addition to what ShivaFan has said wherein Lord Rama defines truth as Supreme.

"Satyam eva ishwaro loke, satyam dharmah sadashrita;
satya moolani sarvani, satyen nasti param padam."

(Truth is God in the universe, in truth 'dharma' finds good refuge;
all have their base in truth, there is no station higher than truth.)

Not that 'God is truth', an oft repeated saying, but that 'truth is God'. That makes a world of difference.
And because of that, I have become an atheist Hindu.

But prAna (the life principle) is called the satyam (the truth) and the Atman-Brahman is called satyasa satyam (the truth of the truth) in scripture. The immanent life force is God-the Truth, and the transcendental Brahman the satasya satyam- the Truth of the Truth.
 
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sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Sayak83, you have a problem here. What type of Hinduism will you describe? Atheist/Theist/polytheist/or some where between the two? Vaishnava, Shaiva, Shakta, Smarta, Tantrik. And the various sects in each of these ways. I wish you the best of exposition.
I will not discuss atheistic Hinduism much as it will take me to Nyaya, Vaisesika and Carvaka philosophy and its interactions with Abhidharma, Madhyamika and Yogacara Buddhism. I will mention it, but the topic is a bit too advanced and not representative of most Hindus.
 
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