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Discussion of the Secret Book of John

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
Halcyon said:
For me this story is almost like a guide for our own spiritual journey.
I think the whole book is like that.

Halcyon said:
She was given gnosis so that her fullness was returned, just like we should strive for.
Do you think that maybe Sophia did not strive for fulfillment, but the acknowledgement that her light had diminished brought her directly back to the fullness?

Hal said:
It reminds me a bit of "On the Origin of the World" which tells of the soul and her journey back to the source.
yup. We're all just trying to get back to the One. But, I think maybe we're already it, we just haven't realized it.
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
Buttons* said:
I think the whole book is like that.
Well, yeah. But this is like a little summary... :p

Buttons* said:
Do you think that maybe Sophia did not strive for fulfillment, but the acknowledgement that her light had diminished brought her directly back to the fullness?
Acknowledging that we lack understanding, that our light is diminished by ignorance - its all the same. But then, i don't think Sophia ever left the fullness, its just a story Buttons*, you silly literalist! :faint:

Buttons* said:
yup. We're all just trying to get back to the One. But, I think maybe we're already it, we just haven't realized it.
Exactly. Just like mine signature sayeth.
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
Buttons* said:
...... i cant believe you just said that to me :areyoucra

:slap:
Lol, hilarious aren't i?

If i were any funnier, i think my bowels would spontaneously prolapse.
 

Krie

Member
my ex b/f thought that the Gnostic veiw was very good so i think that i would like to know more on the thoughts of them
i also hear that they are hated is that so?
 

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
so yeah... after a respite on this thread (meaning that it died a while ago, but i'm into beating the dead horse mercilessly) I've decided to just finish my explinations on the Book of John.

The Human Appears

"A voice called from the exalted heavenly realm,
'The human exists,
and the human child.'
The first ruler, Yaldabaoth, heard the voice and though it had come from his mother. He did not realize its source.

The holy perfect mother-father,
the complete forethought,
the image of the invisible one,
being the father of everything,
through whom everything came into being,
the first human -
this is the one who showed them, and appeared in human shape.

The entire realm of the first ruler quaked, and the foundations of the abyss shook. The bottom of the waters above the material world was lighted by this image that had appeared. When all the authorities and he first ruler stared at this appearance, they saw the whole bottom as it was illuminated. And through the light they saw the shape of the image in the water."
 

EnhancedSpirit

High Priestess
Buttons* said:
so yeah... after a respite on this thread (meaning that it died a while ago, but i'm into beating the dead horse mercilessly) I've decided to just finish my explinations on the Book of John.

The Human Appears

"A voice called from the exalted heavenly realm,
'The human exists,
and the human child.'
The first ruler, Yaldabaoth, heard the voice and though it had come from his mother. He did not realize its source.

The holy perfect mother-father,
the complete forethought,
the image of the invisible one,
being the father of everything,
through whom everything came into being,
the first human -
this is the one who showed them, and appeared in human shape.

The entire realm of the first ruler quaked, and the foundations of the abyss shook. The bottom of the waters above the material world was lighted by this image that had appeared. When all the authorities and he first ruler stared at this appearance, they saw the whole bottom as it was illuminated. And through the light they saw the shape of the image in the water."
so yaldoboath didn't create the first humans? I'm confused?
 
Buttons* said:
the foundations of the abyss shook. The bottom of the waters above the material world was lighted by this image that had appeared. When all the authorities and he first ruler stared at this appearance, they saw the whole bottom as it was illuminated. And through the light they saw the shape of the image in the water."[/I] [/color]


"And the Dark waters stirred" is a quote from the necronomicon, a 30,000 year old book of ancient exorcism, relating to how the neandrathals fell to opium. The image you try to see upon "doing" this (and the incense recipe is not given...i have a full bottle of concentrated flower oil) see is chutulu, the devil slave trader that built the pyramids etc...
John had a hacked idiots copy of the necronomicon when he wrote the book of revelations and didn't know at all what he was doing, and most idiots still cannot read it, as you have proven in this thread. I think his secret book was just to make people think he was on to something more than he was when he wrote the book of revs...but the necronomicon he based most of it on was a bad copy, probably having something to do with egypt and the pyramids that he tried to apply to rome. :beach:
 

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
alright, it's been a while, cause i've been out of town. Any questions or comments before I continue?
 

ChrisP

Veteran Member
I think this is looking quite mythical now, and am having trouble gleaning anything from the texts :p. Anything you'd like to point out you haven't?
 

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
ChrisP said:
I think this is looking quite mythical now, and am having trouble gleaning anything from the texts :p. Anything you'd like to point out you haven't?
yeah, i'll have to look at them again once i get home.
 

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
Yeah, i really dislike the mythology.

Basically:

Out of the Source comes all aspects of the mind. "Understanding" the wisdom within brings you back to the One from whence Sophia came. (I'm really saying "wisdom" when I say Sophia... if you dont catch it. Again, not earthly learning wisdom, it's more... instinctive? You can insert your own word for it :p )

The thoughts we...catch?... are not our own. I guess it's saying that nothing really is ours, or of the self. It's all from One. Forethought and Wisdom were the most important to the Gnostics who wrote this particular text. There are male and female energies simply to show how they all go together. Male and female have to be equally combined to come back to the Light. It's just discussing the balancing act of everything. Mentioning the luminaries has to do with numbers. In the majority of religious movements of that time, numbers played an important part in relating the message that people were trying to get across to one another. The more ways you learn to tell a story, the broader your audience becomes.

It also talks about the birth of ignorance from wisdom. Aside from the mythological crap, just understand that knowing something in this physical/materialistic world leads to pseudo-wisdom, which is ignorance. And when people are ignorant of what they are, they **** up. Knowing, or the false assumption of security, takes away from spiritual understanding and seeing the Source.

The Good and all it's "beings" created the perfect man. A model in heaven for all to look up to. He is with One. That is the most important thing, really, that he is with the Source. Adamas doesn't do much. We dont hear much about him, actually, after that chapter. His son, Seth, is awarded the title of perfect Son. A parallel to Yeshua. The main idea is that those people had been perfectly created into the One, and remain there. So should we.

All people are trying to do is answer questions that are unanswerable. "who are we?" "why are we here?" "what's our purpose?" The Source has everything... but really, it's not our place to know. We just have to exist understanding. If you ask questions, you will only have more questions...You may also get answers, but answers are a stopping block. They are what you choose to accept to keep your mind at peace. Yeshua said that you need to be disturbed in order to gain the true message. (somewhere in Thomas) Stop asking questions, stop getting answers, which are ignorant and pointless anyway.

The reason for the mythology is to split it up and explain everything at a slow pace for people. It's also meant to be slightly literalistic. But I refuse to see these texts in that light simply because I'm too stubborn. *smiles* Halcyon would argue that parts of the text are taken from actual events. Take it as you will. *shrugs*

That's all I have for now. More questions? :p
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Will there be any more discussion on John's Secret Book?

It's has been fairly quiet here for several weeks now.
 

ChrisP

Veteran Member
It sure has. Our study leader is currently flim flamming her way across Western Europe and will be back in the saddle in the next week or so.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
ChrisP said:
It sure has. Our study leader is currently flim flamming her way across Western Europe and will be back in the saddle in the next week or so.
:p

Well, I had enjoyed Button's summarising and her inputs of what it mean, as well as from other gnostic's feedbacks (even though there are not many gnostics here), who would know more than I could. It had been very informative.

I would only wish that Simon Gnosis would put some inputs into this thread too. :( We could have use his insight on this book. :shout
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
gnostic said:
:p
I would only wish that Simon Gnosis would put some inputs into this thread too. :( We could have use his insight on this book. :shout
I concur. He seems to have vanished... :cover:
 
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