Discussions on Islamic Heaven

[robo]

Good day everyone,

I would like to initiate a discussion on Islamic heaven. There seems to be a lot of confusion surrounding this. This thread may ride roughshod over many of our sensibilities but I do not think there is anyway around this because of the nature of the subject itself.

Topics for discussion are:

(1)Do Muslim men get rewarded with 72 female virgins? The reason I ask is that there seems to be some confusion whether the 72 entities referred to are virgins or raisins.

(2)What do Muslim women get in heaven?

(3)Muslim men are allowed to marry up to four wives here on earth. Now, given normal sexual relationships between husbands and wives, I assume that the 72 female virgins that are provided as reward to Muslim men will not be one of the four wives ( if you know what I mean ;-) ). Given this, will not the four wives feel jealous seeing their earthly husband get intimate with 72 other women?

(4)Is it okay for a Muslim man to have sexual relationship with 72 women here on earth? If it is not, then why is it allowed in heaven?

(5)Assume a male child dies in childbirth itself. The Islamic belief is that every child (regardless of faith) goes to heaven. Now, is this child also provided with 72 virgins? What will the poor child know and do in heaven with this reward?

Again, please leave this thread alone if it affects your sensibilities. However, as I mentioned, that is the nature of the beast - so there is no way I can see to avoid such issues.

 

[chinu]

good day everyone,

i would like to initiate a discussion on islamic heaven. There seems to be a lot of confusion surrounding this. This thread may ride roughshod over many of our sensibilities but i do not think there is anyway around this because of the nature of the subject itself.

Topics for discussion are:

(1)do muslim men get rewarded with 72 female virgins? The reason i ask is that there seems to be some confusion whether the 72 entities referred to are virgins or raisins.

(2)what do muslim women get in heaven?

(3)muslim men are allowed to marry up to four wives here on earth. Now, given normal sexual relationships between husbands and wives, i assume that the 72 female virgins that are provided as reward to muslim men will not be one of the four wives ( if you know what i mean ;-) ). Given this, will not the four wives feel jealous seeing their earthly husband get intimate with 72 other women?

(4)is it okay for a muslim man to have sexual relationship with 72 women here on earth? If it is not, then why is it allowed in heaven?

(5)assume a male child dies in childbirth itself. The islamic belief is that every child (regardless of faith) goes to heaven. Now, is this child also provided with 72 virgins? What will the poor child know and do in heaven with this reward?

Again, please leave this thread alone if it affects your sensibilities. However, as i mentioned, that is the nature of the beast - so there is no way i can see to avoid such issues.

:d.....

 

[F0uad]

The “72 virgins” idea is probably the most overblown idea that people seem to remember about Islam. It’s turning into a real stereotype. Forgetting the doctrines of monotheism and tolerance, it seems all people want to hear about is the virgins. There’s a lot more to Paradise than just sex and physical pleasure, you know.

Taking the issue and the verses out of context. One really should read the whole Surah (chapter) to get a better understanding of the religious significance. Nearly a third of the Quran talks about the life after this one anyway i will just reply on my own humble view.

(1)Do Muslim men get rewarded with 72 female virgins? The reason I ask is that there seems to be some confusion whether the 72 entities referred to are virgins or raisins.

It's not in the Quran. The "houris" are male and female, and it just means innocent, intelligent companions. The kind of people you'd expect to find in heaven.

The number 72 came from a hadith (traditonal story attributed falsely to Muhammad saws) in the Tirmidhi collection and in Ibn Kathir's writings (tafsir). Again, not part of the Qur'an.

(2)What do Muslim women get in heaven?

The same as man whatever they want.

(3)Muslim men are allowed to marry up to four wives here on earth. Now, given normal sexual relationships between husbands and wives, I assume that the 72 female virgins that are provided as reward to Muslim men will not be one of the four wives ( if you know what I mean ;-) ). Given this, will not the four wives feel jealous seeing their earthly husband get intimate with 72 other women?

Since there is no mentioning of virgins or a number i cannot really reply on this, in my understanding of heaven you can get whatever you want.

(4)Is it okay for a Muslim man to have sexual relationship with 72 women here on earth? If it is not, then why is it allowed in heaven?

There are things that aren't allowed here but they will be possible in heaven such as wine drinking because in heaven you don't have a physical body therefore not can be effected by its effect.

(5)Assume a male child dies in childbirth itself. The Islamic belief is that every child (regardless of faith) goes to heaven. Now, is this child also provided with 72 virgins? What will the poor child know and do in heaven with this reward?

Lol..

 

[Bob Dixon]

Alright, kids, thread's over. Go home.

 

[robo]

The “72 virgins” idea is probably the most overblown idea that people seem to remember about Islam. It’s turning into a real stereotype. Forgetting the doctrines of monotheism and tolerance, it seems all people want to hear about is the virgins. There’s a lot more to Paradise than just sex and physical pleasure, you know.

Hey, do not blame the non-believer for this. If the idea is over blown, it is not the fault of non-believers.

It's not in the Quran. The "houris" are male and female, and it just means innocent, intelligent companions. The kind of people you'd expect to find in heaven.

I have not been to heaven, you see. So, it is difficult for me to have an opinion of what to expect to find in heaven. Where do you form your opinion of heaven from?

The number 72 came from a hadith (traditonal story attributed falsely to Muhammad saws) in the Tirmidhi collection and in Ibn Kathir's writings (tafsir). Again, not part of the Qur'an.

Ah...so it is not us non-believers who are blowing this out of proportion. Looks like the idea originated within Islamic literature itself.

There are things that aren't allowed here but they will be possible in heaven...

Why does Islamic heaven promise stuff that is forbidden by Allah here? What is the point though?

...such as wine drinking because in heaven you don't have a physical body therefore not can be effected by its effect.

This is news to me. We will not have physical bodies? What do you do with your intelligent innocent companions? How can you sense their presence without the sensory apparatus of touch, sight, smell, etc.? How exactly do you drink wine without a mouth? How do you even experience something without the mediation of your sense organs?

Is the lack of physical body only in heaven or in hell also?

Because, here is what is in store for me in the afterlife.

Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses - We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment.

Looks like Kuffars in hell will have skin.

 

[OneTwo]

Why does Islamic heaven promise stuff that is forbidden by Allah here? What is the point though?

This life is a test, God forbade his people to do certain things because he is testing how strong our faith will be to Him, and if we succeed this test we will be rewarded in heaven, for example; don't consume wine here because in heaven you will be given the finest of wines.

Pretty simple tbh.

 

[robo]

This life is a test, God forbade his people to do certain things because he is testing how strong our faith will be to Him, and if we succeed this test we will be rewarded in heaven, for example; don't consume wine here because in heaven you will be given the finest of wines.

Pretty simple tbh.

This cannot make do with RF's facepalm.

I needed to go to the WWW and respond with

 

[Nooj]

Do you have a problem with OneTwo's answer?

 

[OneTwo]

I simplified a complex answer for you in the easiest way possible, yet you don't get it??

 

[robo]

Do you have a problem with OneTwo's answer?

As the cliche goes - "If you need to ask for the price, chances are you cannot afford it."

 

[Nooj]

I don't know what that means in relation to the answer.

 

[F0uad]

Hey, do not blame the non-believer for this. If the idea is over blown, it is not the fault of non-believers.

I do since Non-muslims made up the story, mis-translated it and created the hadith in the first place.

I have not been to heaven, you see. So, it is difficult for me to have an opinion of what to expect to find in heaven. Where do you form your opinion of heaven from?

The Quran and Authentic Hadiths.. hehe sorry for the word ''opinion'' i meant mine understanding.

Ah...so it is not us non-believers who are blowing this out of proportion. Looks like the idea originated within Islamic literature itself.

Nope not islamic literature mis-use of words and fabricated islamic teachings by non-muslims.

Why does Islamic heaven promise stuff that is forbidden by Allah here? What is the point though?

This is been answered to bad you replied with a face-palm because muslims sincerely do belief it.

This is news to me. We will not have physical bodies? What do you do with your intelligent innocent companions? How can you sense their presence without the sensory apparatus of touch, sight, smell, etc.? How exactly do you drink wine without a mouth? How do you even experience something without the mediation of your sense organs?

We will get a spiritual form call it a body if you want. We will get a ''body'' but not a physical one like we have now we will be different kind of ''people'' so we will have a face, sight, smell, touch and all those things just the bad things are left out since its heaven and its a reward.

Is the lack of physical body only in heaven or in hell also?

Of my knowledge if you go to hell your skin will re-create itself (i didn't actually did any reading on the subject so i can be mistaken)

 

[robo]

I do since Non-muslims made up the story, mis-translated it and created the hadith in the first place.

Nope not islamic literature mis-use of words and fabricated islamic teachings by non-muslims.

Ibn Kathir is a non-Muslim?

We will get a spiritual form call it a body if you want. We will get a ''body'' but not a physical one like we have now we will be different kind of ''people'' so we will have a face, sight, smell, touch and all those things just the bad things are left out since its heaven and its a reward.

What are the bad things that will be left out in heaven? Well, as long as we have a face, eyes, nose, skin, etc. it is a body. I have no idea what you mean by a "spiritual form".

Can you please tell me how Allah expects heaven dwellers to bide their time for the rest of eternity come the Day of Judgement?

My questions are still unanswered.

Will a Muslim man's wives feel jealous when that man spends time with 72 other women? In other words, will there be room for envy, hate, jealousy, love, compassion, joy, anger, etc., etc. in your heaven? These are the things that make us human, you know?

 

[F0uad]

Ibn Kathir is a non-Muslim?

Did he narrate the hadith no.. he was a islamic historian who collected the hadith he also knew hadiths but this specific hadith he never made authentic or anyone else.

What are the bad things that will be left out in heaven? Well, as long as we have a face, eyes, nose, skin, etc. it is a body. I have no idea what you mean by a "spiritual form".

I am not sure how to explain i am sorry? I think its more kind of a form with a face and features that allow us to smell, see etc..

Can you please tell me how Allah expects heaven dwellers to bide their time for the rest of eternity come the Day of Judgement?

Its better then this world... so i am pretty sure we wouldn't get bored if that is your question..

My questions are still unanswered.

Will a Muslim man's wives feel jealous when that man spends time with 72 other women? In other words, will there be room for envy, hate, jealousy, love, compassion, joy, anger, etc., etc. in your heaven? These are the things that make us human, you know?

I said there are no 72 virgins... so stop mentioning it
I belief you will go with your wife to heaven (if you want to) if you wish a new partner in heaven you will get one its simple as that...

Love, compassion, joy and all the good things i think we will keep i am not sure why you should be angry or jealous since you get whatever you want.

 

[robo]

I belief you will go with your wife to heaven (if you want to) if you wish a new partner in heaven you will get one its simple as that...

Simple!? What if you want your wife in heaven but she feigns a headache because she wants to spend the night with someone else? Whose wish gets granted?

 

[F0uad]

Simple!? What if you want your wife in heaven but she feigns a headache because she wants to spend the night with someone else? Whose wish gets granted?

Like i said i think you will get only the ''good things'' there are no such things are bad, angry, headaches as i know... Like i said i do not know much on the subject so i am actually replying with guesses..
I also said you get whatever you want, if you do not wish your wife or husband with you, you don't get it...

I am pretty sure if you have questions regarding heaven or the after-life you can post them on the Islam dir.

 

[robo]

Like i said i think you will get only the ''good things'' there are no such things are bad, angry, headaches as i know... Like i said i do not know much on the subject so i am actually replying with guesses..
I also said you get whatever you want, if you do not wish your wife or husband with you, you don't get it...

I said what if your wife feigns a headache because someone next door caught her eye. Can you infer?

You want her, so you will get her. But she wants to be with someone else, so she gets him?

In Islamic heaven there is just going to be all-round deception from what I see. It would make modern soap operas that run endlessly on TV tame by comparison. Fact IS stranger then fiction.

 

[F0uad]

I said what if your wife feigns a headache because someone next door caught her eye. Can you infer?

You want her, so you will get her. But she wants to be with someone else, so she gets him?

In Islamic heaven there is just going to be all-round deception from what I see. It would make modern soap operas that run endlessly on TV tame by comparison. Fact IS stranger then fiction.

Now your being silly how do you not understand you get what you want?

If you were a true believer(muslim) on this planet who followed Mohammed(saws) you can never want someone else's wife only your own, if you want a specific looking woman with the same characters as a other woman you will get it (in my understanding).

We have a concept of heaven that is imaginable it is so ''great'' i am not sure what a tv program has anything to do with it... Since being bored is a negative thing right?

Instead of accepting what MUSLIMS belief you are just trying to argue in the sack of arguing it won't help you though.


Ps: many woman's do like soap's.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

(1)Do Muslim men get rewarded with 72 female virgins? The reason I ask is that there seems to be some confusion whether the 72 entities referred to are virgins or raisins.

The húrís (the virgins) is also mentioned in the Quran. I believe indeed it was true that after the Day of Resurrection the húrís are given.
As the Day of Resurrection has already passed, these húrís are already available. The reason that, 72 virgins don't make any sense, is literal interpretation. But some of the Quran's verses are figurative. These húrís, were the hidden meaning of the verses, which was never seen or touched (i.e. virgin), but are now revealed in the Baha'i scriptures.
For example Baha'u'llah refers to húrís, in the Book of Certitude:


How many the húrís of inner meaning that are as yet concealed within the chambers of divine wisdom! None hath yet approached them;—húrís, “whom no man nor spirit hath touched before.”‡




There are also Islamic traditions which says:


“Every knowledge hath seventy meanings, of which one only is known amongst the people. And when the Qá’im shall arise, He shall reveal unto men all that which remaineth.” He also saith: “We speak one word, and by it we intend one and seventy meanings; each one of these meanings we can explain.”







‡Qur’án 55:56.

 

[Starsoul]

I said what if your wife feigns a headache because someone next door caught her eye. Can you infer?

Although Heaven in Islam is defined minimally in description, only some of its attributes have been hinted at in the Quran; the attributes we all desire in this world as well, like beautiful spouses, companions, rare delicious eatables , countless servants, spacious houses and etc.

But even these descriptions indicate very little about heaven, it is still a place unseen, and has been described as a place beyond human perception. So, whatever questions we may have about it, one thing caters to them all; that heaven is a place where the Creator will serve us, and it is a place where there is no malice, no jealousy, no pride and no arrogance; only love and peace, but in what form, we do not know, neither do we waste our time contemplating about it, a human mind cannot reach the realm of this knowledge, his sense are limited to this world only.

e.g you may know that animals can hear noises of much larger decibels than humans can, and those sound waves are completely inperceptible by human ears, does that mean they do not exist?

About wives feeling jealousy, there will be no jealousy in heaven (our hearts will be purified from all these feelings). Also men and women will have whatever they desire. And to quote a meaning of a hadith here, the righteous wife of a man will be superior to the rest of the women in heaven, she will be beautified more, and made more valuable since she has faced the trials and temptations of this earth and came out victorious, whereas the women of heaven, though also beautiful and sweet, have not faced temptation on Earth.

The whole idea of heaven may seem odd to a person who has not had a life of struggle and good character, and who's enjoyed every prohibited thing of this world (women, wine, sinning and etc) but near death and in extreme grief and difficulty, all people desire heaven and want some sort of compensation for the difficulties that they go through.

The efforts of this life seem useless if one knows he is not ever getting up again; and his existence was just a one time wonder with no reward or compensation for what he went through in this world. Good if you've had everything perfect in this world, but some news for you; it isn't perfect for everybody out there in this world, you can skip heaven if it sounds so odd to you, nobody is going to force you into it.

(P.s I've always been a muslim and I'm rather amazed how I've never heard of 72 virgins and all some people seem to focus on in islam is them. Cant say if thats all people want in heaven, but what most people would want, is to see the Creator and talk to him, to meet all their forefather, earlier generations, the Prophets, a whole lot of people that we would like to meet.

Also it has been said in the hadith that the most keen moment for heavenites will be to see their Creator, and speak to him, which will be a soulful experience for all people and thats one thing that they will look forward to everyday, and this desire to see the Creator and speak to him shall never end. )