Disseminating "Jews control America" ...

[Alceste]

Alceste,

I suggest that rather than playing into their hands, you should read this: Swans Commentary: "The Politics Of Anti-Semitism" Part II: Stereotypes And Other Canards, by Gilles d'Aymery - ga177

Well, I gave it a go, Pete, but it's rather long-winded, unrelated to my point and dull into the mix, so would you mind specifically indicating which part of it is relevant to this thread, or to my request for a credible source to support the attack in the OP? And whose hands I'm playing into, in your opinion?

 

[Scuba Pete]

Can you clarify whether you are talking about the alleged Ariel Sharon quote or CAMERA's article claiming it is false?

There is NO credible source for the quote. The quote is FALSE.

Now, how would you determine if a quote is false? It is proven false by a LACK of a credible source for the quote. There is none.

 

[Alceste]

There is NO credible source for the quote. The quote is FALSE.

Now, how would you determine if a quote is false? It is proven false by a LACK of a credible source for the quote. There is none.

I would not bother trying to determine whether or not a quote is false if I could find no credible information one way or the other. Might be true, might be false. Who knows? Who cares? .lava has already indicated the quote is not particularly relevant to his opinions on Israel - US relations, whereas to the numerous members speaking out against him the falsity of the quote is an ABSOLUTE FACT, regardless of the impossibility of determining whether or not it was ever spoken, and .lava's belief in a "false" quote means he's somehow anti-semitic.

I'm more interested in the uses of propaganda, and this is a propaganda thread. I'm trying to point out that Jayhawk's assertions are just as sloppy and baseless as he insists .lava's are. They are equal.

That's all.

 

[Nehustan]

I'm more interested in the uses of propaganda, and this is a propaganda thread.

Bernays' (nephew of Freud) book (1928) is a short but historically interesting take on the subject...you may be able to find it online. More interesting than arguing...

 

[Nehustan]

Found a copy if you're interested...

http://whale.to/b/bernays.pdf

 

[Scuba Pete]

I would not bother trying to determine whether or not a quote is false if I could find no credible information one way or the other.

So, in true "I don't give a rat's patootie about the truth" mentality, would you join the other hatriots in asserting our right to invade Iraq based on mythical WMDs?

regardless of the impossibility of determining whether or not it was ever spoken, and .lava's belief in a "false" quote means he's somehow anti-semitic.

The events of the Holocaust were predicated on SIMILAR lies and distortions. If you can not learn from history, you are BOUND to repeat it.

I'm more interested in the uses of propaganda, and this is a propaganda thread.

Here is the MAJOR difference. On one side, we have someone trying to PROVE how evil them "darned dirty Jews" are. They are doing it by insinuating that they somehow CONTROL America. They do it using a singular quote which has absolutely NO credibility and can not be traced to a single source. The quote exists and is propagated only to continue the lie that Jews somehow control America. This entire notion is simply preposterous and is nothing but out and out bigotry.

On the other hand, we have someone who is OUTRAGED that such a preposterous lie is being perpetrated. So what if he used a less than credible source to deny the quote. THERE IS NO CREDIBLE SOURCE TO CONFIRM THE QUOTE. It's not the QUOTE, but the lie that perpetrates the QUOTE.

No one controls America but Americans. We are Jewish, Christian, Muslim, atheist and OTHER. All of us control the wealth of America as well as who will be the next President. We have MANY allies, including Israel, Iraq and even Saudi Arabia. In the final analysis, no ethnic group exerts an undue influence in America.

 

[TashaN]

2 years a go. An offecial group came to my university "in Malaysia" from the American Embassy, and when the students were asking him why they can't just be FAIR, instead of backing up Israel whether Israel was right or wrong, the offecial said, sorry, but the Jewish lobby is controlling and influencing our forgien policies, you can create your own if you want. People there were shocked and they couldn't ask anymore questions.

The problem is that, some Jewish groups call their groups the Jewish lobby or the Jewish group for bla bla, and when you creticise them you will fall under the anti-semitism crap propaganda and holocaust, hitler bla bla.

Yes, many Jews control America, and many Jews know that and speak about it, but when we say Jews do we mean ALL Jews, no, but we mean specific groups who call themselves Jews, and we have to just call them Jews because they call themselves so. How else we will be able to identify them?!

 

[Scuba Pete]

Yes, many Jews control America, and many Jews know that and speak about it, but when we say Jews do we mean ALL Jews, no, but we mean specific groups who call themselves Jews, and we have to just call them Jews because they call themselves so. How else we will be able to identify them?!

This is so pathetic that it simply amazes me. Whoever told you that "Jews" were in control is a bigot. It's simply not true and this is spread in order to make people DISTRUST Jews all over

Again, these are the PRECISE thoughts that lead to the Holocaust. That you dismiss it so easily shows just how PERVASIVE this bigotry has become.

 

[Sahar]

Again, these are the PRECISE thoughts that lead to the Holocaust. That you dismiss it so easily shows just how PERVASIVE this bigotry has become.

God!! Can't you just stop this nonsense?

 

[Magic Man]

This is so pathetic that it simply amazes me. Whoever told you that "Jews" were in control is a bigot. It's simply not true and this is spread in order to make people DISTRUST Jews all over

Again, these are the PRECISE thoughts that lead to the Holocaust. That you dismiss it so easily shows just how PERVASIVE this bigotry has become.

As always, you're right. Anyone who thinks differently than you is obviously a bigot and trying to spread hate. Thank God we have you around to point this out.

I would love to see you prove that it is in no way whatsoever true at all, not even a small itsy-bitsy bit true. Then, at least you're venom could be considered justified. For now, your claim that it's not at all true, and anyone who claims it is at all true is only spreading hate and leading us towards a holocaust, is no better than others' claims that it is true. If you are so convinced that it isn't true, you should have no problem at all showing just how it is false and there was never any truth to the rumor. I won't hold my breath, though.

 

[Scuba Pete]

You're kidding right? You are buying into this bigotry? Wow. Let's look at the RICHEST people in America. From The World's Billionaires - Forbes.com

1 Warren Buffett United States 77 62.0 United States
3 William Gates III United States 52 58.0 United States
12 Sheldon Adelson United States 74 26.0 United States
14 Lawrence Ellison United States 63 25.0 United States
26 Christy Walton & family United States 53 19.2 United States
26 Jim Walton United States 60 19.2 United States
26 S Robson Walton United States 64 19.2 United States
29 Alice Walton United States 58 19.0 United States
32 Sergey Brin United States 34 18.7 United States
33 Larry Page United States 35 18.6 United States

Here in the top ten richest Americans, I would like you to show me who is Jewish. Go ahead, I am patient.

 

[Scuba Pete]

God!! Can't you just stop this nonsense?

I am trying my hardest to stop them, but the bigots keep on spewing their hate!

The worst part is that many just can't see it. They think it's perfectly acceptable to adopt these biased beliefs about anyone who is different then they are. It's like they have completely forgotten the Holocaust and how Hitler manipulated the masses with the EXACT SAME INSIPID LIES. Please, read Mein Kampf and see YOURSELVES in the text.

 

[Majikthise]

I am trying my hardest to stop them, but the bigots keep on spewing their hate!

The worst part is that many just can't see it. They think it's perfectly acceptable to adopt these biased beliefs about anyone who is different then they are. It's like they have completely forgotten the Holocaust and how Hitler manipulated the masses with the EXACT SAME INSIPID LIES. Please, read Mein Kampf and see YOURSELVES in the text.

Don't feed the bigots!

 

[kai]

a source ,a source my kingdom for a source ,
i cant source who said that,

come on guys we have all had sources that have been found to be dubious, its hard to trawl through all the rubbish in the net ,especially about the middle east, and i think Lava and Jay were both genuine in their intentions . -----and its all getting a little out of hand.

 

[.lava]

As I mentioned in the OP:In my opinion, the referenced signature was propagating a "quote"

• for which I could find no credible verification,
• which was openly disputed by one source, and
• which was being transmitted on a seemingly endless list of hate sites.

I took exception to it. You apparently feel that it is fine to use unless and until it can be proven false. We clearly have a difference of opinion.

Shalom.

let me say it again. a thread about false statements is already exist on the forum. i did not post those statements again while sharing my view on Middle East or Israel. you started a new thread about a statement as if it was posted somewhere else again.

yes, it is normal to have different opinions. there are many people that i like who has completely different beliefs. i don't mind for what they believe. i do mind for attitude. someone who's being friendly would never be pushed away by me. each would have a place within my heart as each is equally unique to me. imo it was unfriendly to accuse me and saying i cheer cold blood murderer because i donot approve what Israeli govenment do in Middle East. that's how you represent Jewish people. i don't repeat what you say and that makes me equal to a murderer. are you gonna say that attitude does not reflect how Israeli see 'other'?



.

 

[.lava]

I am trying my hardest to stop them, but the bigots keep on spewing their hate!

The worst part is that many just can't see it. They think it's perfectly acceptable to adopt these biased beliefs about anyone who is different then they are. It's like they have completely forgotten the Holocaust and how Hitler manipulated the masses with the EXACT SAME INSIPID LIES. Please, read Mein Kampf and see YOURSELVES in the text.

matter of fact, it is not Jewish, it is only Muslim people who's happened to be 2nd Jews of Europe. you say 'you got me just fine' and you compare me with Hitler? i thought you're being sincere with me when you said that. now you're calling me bigot. that's a joke Scuba Pete. i am not even close to be bigot. you defend this Jewish issues' all along and you say Jewish don't control America and you say and act like this as an American. what a irony you performed. however i still think you are nice person. as i never gave people ugly names, i am not willing to give you either. once upon a time i used to explain my position with the same example over and over again. even if you called me 'dog' for a million times, you could never make me bark at you. so good luck.



.

 

[.lava]

You're kidding right? You are buying into this bigotry? Wow. Let's look at the RICHEST people in America. From The World's Billionaires - Forbes.com

1 Warren Buffett United States 77 62.0 United States
3 William Gates III United States 52 58.0 United States
12 Sheldon Adelson United States 74 26.0 United States
14 Lawrence Ellison United States 63 25.0 United States
26 Christy Walton & family United States 53 19.2 United States
26 Jim Walton United States 60 19.2 United States
26 S Robson Walton United States 64 19.2 United States
29 Alice Walton United States 58 19.0 United States
32 Sergey Brin United States 34 18.7 United States
33 Larry Page United States 35 18.6 United States

Here in the top ten richest Americans, I would like you to show me who is Jewish. Go ahead, I am patient.

one post could not have them all at once, so i post it in a few parts.
the United States

• Leonore Annenberg, billionaire owner of TV Guide and Triangle Publications
• Philip Anschutz, founder and chairman of Qwest Communications International, and acquired United Artists Theaters, and Regal Cinemas
• Edmund Ansin, billionaire owner of TV Stations
• Ted Arison, U.S.-Israeli billionaire, founder of Carnival Cruise Lines.
• Micky Arison Chief Executive Officer of Carnival Corporation & PLC.
• Sheldon Adelson, is a 71 year-old billionaire property developer in Las Vegas. He took Las Vegas Sands Corp. public in December 2004 by selling 10 % of the shares. He was born and raised in a Jewish neighborhood in Boston, Massachusetts.
• Steve Ballmer, U.S. CEO of Microsoft (Jewish mother)
• Carl Berg, billionaire real estate and investments
• Arthur Blank, billionaire co-founder and co-owner of Home Depot
• Leonard Blavatnik, billionaire sharehoder in TNT-BP Sual and Access/Renova
• Jeff Bleustein, Chairman and former Chief Executive Officer of Harley-Davidson, Inc.
• Michael Bloomberg, Billionaire, U.S. politician, founder of Bloomberg News
• Neil Bluhm, billionaire owner of JMG Realty
• Sergey Brin Russian-born U.S. co-founder of Google
• Samuel Bronfman founder of Seagram
• Edgar Bronfman, billionaire
• Edgar Bronfman, Jr., Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Warner Music Group
• Emanuel H. Bronner, soapmaker
• Sid Bernstein, promoter, "The Man That Brought The Beatles to America"
• Chess brothers, Polish-born U.S. record company executive
• Eli Broad is a billionaire who lives in Los Angeles California.
• Harvey Chaplin, billionaire owner of Southern Wine & Spirits of America
• Lyor Cohen, billionaire chairman of Warner Music

.

 

[UnityNow101]

Do Jews control America? I am not sure, neither do I much care. But I do believe that we have a media bias which favors the Jewish people and is not giving us the whole story as to what is going on in the Middle East. I watch the news everyday to see if we get a balanced view of the situation in Palestine, only to be dissapointed every night. The zionist agenda has been well protected by the media here in the US, that is for sure.

 

[Alceste]

So, in true "I don't give a rat's patootie about the truth" mentality, would you join the other hatriots in asserting our right to invade Iraq based on mythical WMDs? The events of the Holocaust were predicated on SIMILAR lies and distortions. If you can not learn from history, you are BOUND to repeat it. Here is the MAJOR difference. On one side, we have someone trying to PROVE how evil them "darned dirty Jews" are. They are doing it by insinuating that they somehow CONTROL America. They do it using a singular quote which has absolutely NO credibility and can not be traced to a single source. The quote exists and is propagated only to continue the lie that Jews somehow control America. This entire notion is simply preposterous and is nothing but out and out bigotry.

On the other hand, we have someone who is OUTRAGED that such a preposterous lie is being perpetrated. So what if he used a less than credible source to deny the quote. THERE IS NO CREDIBLE SOURCE TO CONFIRM THE QUOTE. It's not the QUOTE, but the lie that perpetrates the QUOTE.

No one controls America but Americans. We are Jewish, Christian, Muslim, atheist and OTHER. All of us control the wealth of America as well as who will be the next President. We have MANY allies, including Israel, Iraq and even Saudi Arabia. In the final analysis, no ethnic group exerts an undue influence in America.

Pete, I have to say I think your reaction is a tad on the hysterical side. Even criticism of Israel, or the mysterious equation by which the US sees fit to refuse to join the UN in condemning them for their atrocities in Palestine and gives them a billion dollars a year (of your tax dollars) in military aid, falls under the category of free speech, as far as I'm concerned. I come from a country where the vast majority of the daily news sources are prohibited by the family that owns them from running any stories or editorials that are critical toward Israel. So the claim that Israel, or "the Jewish lobby" are attempting to control public opinion in North America doesn't seem so outrageous to me. A bit of a simplistic picture, but based on factual evidence. Are the Aspers even Jews? I don't even know. Is it acceptable that their policy is to insist on a uniformly pro-Israel stance in almost ALL of Canada's major daily papers? No, it's not. Is criticizing a pro-Israeli family for insisting Canada's papers don't run unfavorable stories on Israel going to turn me into a Nazi? No.

 

[.lava]

• Lyor Cohen, billionaire chairman of Warner Music
• Steven Cohen, billionaire founder of SAC Capital Management hudge fund
• Lester Crown, billionaire main shareholder in General Dynamics
• Joshua Lionel Cowen, U.S. toy inventor and manufacturer (Lionel trains)
• Mark Cuban, U.S. billionaire owner of Dallas Mavericks, founder of Broadcast.com (sold to Yahoo!).
• William Davidson, billionaire owner of Gurdian Industries
• Barbara Davis, billionaire energy tycoon
• Clive Davis, U.S. founder of Arista Records
• Michael Dell, U.S. founder of Dell Inc.
• Barry Diller, billionaire owner of Usa Networks Ticketmaster
• Stanley Druckenmiller, billionaire, famous for his "billion dollar bet against the British pound in 1992 that generated 30% returns for George Soros"
• Larry Ellison, U.S. CEO of Oracle Corporation (adopted by Jews from Jewish biological parents)
• Max Factor, Polish-American cosmetics industrialist
• Paul Fireman, billionaire founder of Reebok aerobic shoes
• Donald Fisher founder of The Gap
• Robert, William, John Fisher, 3 billionaires main shareholders of The Gap
• Sydney Frank, billionaire liquor (unconfirmed)
• David Geffen, U.S. record executive
• Rob Glaser, founder and CEO of Real Networks, makers of Real Player
• Guiford Glazer, real estate shopping centers
• Malcolm Glazer, billionaire owner of First Allied Corporation shareholder of Manchester United
• Leslie & Louis Gonda, billionaires shareholders in AIG insuarance and real estate
• Alex & Tom Gores, 2 billionaires leveraged buyout
• David Gottesman, billionaire founder of First Manhattan (unconfirmed)
• Pincus Green, billionaire commodities trader
• Maurice Greenberg, billionaire main shareholder and ex chairman of AIG
• Alan Greenspan, U.S. economist, chairman of the U.S. Federal Reserve

.