Divinity of Jesus

[Ingledsva]

This theory also wxpects you to believe that Isaiahs son also had two names. Just a heads up.

aik!

One name Emmanuel, but More then two monikers - Mighty Warrior, etc.

 

[Desert Snake]

One name Emmanuel, but More then two monikers - Mighty Warrior, etc.

Why are you saying that first given name is just a moniker? It sounds like that is the actual name, in context.

 

[Ingledsva]

Please provide one shred of evidence that Isaiahs son did any of this

Give one shred of evidence that these verses are about some future Jesus!

The scholars say it is Isaiah's son. The Jews say it is Isaiah's son. It verses themselves say it is Isaiah's son.

It ALL takes place during a war with Rezin the King of Syria.

Again - the Jews whom wrote this, and the rabbis writing about the text say it is Isaiah's son - Google it and choose a Jewish site.

Christians want it to be about Jesus so they try to tweak it to fit.

Do you really think we are going to get a big leadup and then hear nothing else about Isaiah's son by the temple Virgin?

How many time do I have to say - and prove with the texts - that the birth of the son is within the war with Rezin?

Isa 7:1 And it came to pass in the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, king of Judah, that Rezin the king of Syria, and Pekah the son of Remaliah, king of Israel, went up toward Jerusalem to war against it, but could not prevail against it.
Isa 7:2 And it was told the house of David, saying, Syria is confederate with Ephraim. And his heart was moved, and the heart of his people, as the trees of the wood are moved with the wind.
Isa 7:3 Then said the LORD unto Isaiah, Go forth now to meet Ahaz, thou, and Shearjashub thy son, at the end of the conduit of the upper pool in the highway of the fuller's field;

Isa 7:8 For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin; and within threescore and five years shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people.
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Isa 7:10 Moreover the LORD spake again unto Ahaz, saying,
Isa 7:11 Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above.
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
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Isa 8:1 Moreover the LORD said unto me, Take thee a great roll, and write in it with a man's pen concerning Mahershalalhashbaz.
Isa 8:2 And I took unto me faithful witnesses to record, Uriah the priest, and Zechariah the son of Jeberechiah.

8:3 And I (Isaiah)went unto the prophetess; and she conceived, and bare a son. Then said the LORD to me, Call his name Mahershalalhashbaz

Isa 8:8 And he shall pass through Judah; he (the river) shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and stretching out of his edges shall fill the breadth of the land, O Immanuel.

Note that 8:1 says to record concerning Mahershalalhashbaz – and here they record him as Immanuel.

Isa 8:18 Behold, I (Isaiah) and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.

Isa 9:5 For every battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this shall be with burning and fuel of fire.
Isaiah 9:6 For is born a child, a son given to take the rule/government upon his shoulders; and his name is called Wonderful Adviser, Mighty Warrior, Father of future generations, Ruler/keeper/prince of peace.
Isaiah 9:7 To increase the government/empire and the welfare/safety/peace of the throne of David, and over his kingdom, to strengthen the justice and righteousness, from this time, and to eternity. Zealously YHVH of Hosts will do this.

Note that he is still recording and this is present tense - Things are going to be different this time - FOR - this son has been BORN.

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Isa 9:11 Therefore the LORD shall set up the adversaries of Rezin against him, and join his enemies together;
Isa 9:12 The Syrians before, and the Philistines behind; and they shall devour Israel with open mouth.

Note we are past the recording of the child and still in the war with REZIN!!!

7:8 gives us a time.

 

[Muffled]

As pointed out, Jesus never called himself divine. or to be more fair, he never did so in a way that excluded anyone else's divinity. His only two claims of divinity are inclusive:I am as a name of God is as inclusive as you get ( we are all I ams) and when he was asked about saying he was a god by the pharisees he answered with scripture that said EVERYONE is God. His statements of being son of God are also inclusive giventhe rayer he taught us make us say OUR Father.

So what truly puzzles me is a Christian ignoring his own divinity. Which I find n bunches

I believe He did when He said I and my Father are one. The exclusivity is definitely found n His prayer that we be one with the Father since prayer is for that which is not yet accomplished and probably never will be.

I believe in the context in which He said it, it is exclusive. The defense of His statement was not a statement in itself.

However we will not be sons of God the way Jesus was a son of God.

That may simply reflect reality since not all Christians totally accept the concept.

 

[Muffled]

JWs do not believe Jesus is the God of Israel, they believe he was God's first creation and therefore his special son above all the other angels, he was the arch angel Michael in his pre-human existence. So yes Jesus is divine to them in terms of being the arch angel but he isn't divine like God who is almighty all powerful, can create life and is the law giver.

I believe JW's love to spout his nonsense but have never provided any esonable evidence to support it. I call people who continue to believe speculation as though it were reality delusional.

 

[Muffled]

Both of these have already been answered by me, and others, in this thread.

Immanuel is Isaiah's son by the temple virgin.

These events took place back then.

They are not writing about a future Jesus.

Oops - It was in the "Was Jesus the Messiah thread - so -

7:1 tells us we are talking about Isaiah and Ahaz.


Isa 7:1 And it came to pass in the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, king of Judah, that Rezin the king of Syria, and Pekah the son of Remaliah, king of Israel, went up toward Jerusalem to war against it, but could not prevail against it.

Isa 7:3 Then said the LORD unto Isaiah, Go forth now to meet Ahaz, thou, and Shearjashub thy son, at the end of the conduit of the upper pool in the highway of the fuller's field;


7:10-13 tells us God tells Ahaz to ask for a sign, but Azah feels this would be an imposition.

7:14 tells us THEN God gives AHAZ a sign - Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin maiden shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel.

NOTE - the sign is for Ahaz whom is with Isaiah!!!!!

8:1 Here he is told to record concerning Mahershalalhashbaz. His ceremonial name.

8:3 He wrote -And I (Isaiah)went unto the prophetess; and she conceived, and bare a son. Then said the LORD to me, Call his name Mahershalalhashbaz (Fast to the plunder, swift to the prey.)

8:8 Tells us HE, EMMANUEL.

8:18 Here ISAIAH tells us HE and his CHILDREN are for SIGNS, just as it says up in 7:13-14 and 8:3!

Isa 8:18 Behold, I (Isaiah) and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.

Isa 7:8 even gives us a time - ...,and within threescore and five years shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people.

If you look up Emmanuel in a Strong's, for instance, it will tell you Emmanuel is the name of Isaiah's son - also called Mahershalalhashbaz - Isa 8:3!

Look at 9:6-7 in Hebrew, this is not talking about Jesus. Where they translated it Mighty God - it is probably Mighty warrior - though it doesn't have to be as we are told humans are called god in the Bible - "Ye are gods"

In later verses such as 9:11 it is still talking about Rezin.

Isa 9:11 And YHVH will set up Rezin's foes against him, and join together his enemies;

SO! This all takes place at the time of Resin - and the child is not Messiah, or Jesus.

I looked through the posts and didn't find one where you say you posted on this.

I believe I did say that there is misinterpretation and this is a prime example.

I am not concerned about who we are talking about but only who God is talking about. God says nothing about Isaiah but no doubt He is speaking through Isaiah to Ahaz: Isa 7:11 Ask thee a sign of Jehovah thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above.
God did not say to either Ahaz or Isaiah "I am giving you a son as a sign."
Isa 7:13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David: Is it a small thing for you to weary men, that ye will weary my God also? This say the sign is for the house of David which is ostensibly saying to anyone in a leadership position in Israel.

I believe this verse does not equate Isaiah's son with Immanuel and Isaiah's son is not named immanuel. Isaiah already had a child so his wife wasn't a virgin or even a young maiden.

Signs are signs. I believe mention of one sign does not necessarily mean that all signs are alike.

So then how do you view Everlasting Father?

So you are saying that an everlasting throne was set up for Ahaz? Where is this person who still sits on the throne of Israel?

 

[Ingledsva]

I looked through the posts and didn't find one where you say you posted on this.

I believe I did say that there is misinterpretation and this is a prime example.

I am not concerned about who we are talking about but only who God is talking about. God says nothing about Isaiah but no doubt He is speaking through Isaiah to Ahaz: Isa 7:11 Ask thee a sign of Jehovah thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above.
God did not say to either Ahaz or Isaiah "I am giving you a son as a sign."
Isa 7:13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David: Is it a small thing for you to weary men, that ye will weary my God also? This say the sign is for the house of David which is ostensibly saying to anyone in a leadership position in Israel.

I believe this verse does not equate Isaiah's son with Immanuel and Isaiah's son is not named immanuel. Isaiah already had a child so his wife wasn't a virgin or even a young maiden.

Signs are signs. I believe mention of one sign does not necessarily mean that all signs are alike.

So then how do you view Everlasting Father?

So you are saying that an everlasting throne was set up for Ahaz? Where is this person who still sits on the throne of Israel?

Look it up in your Strong's --- H6005 --- "Isaiah's son"

 

[Muffled]

Look it up in your Strong's --- H6005 --- "Isaiah's son"

Sorry, My Strong's is in storage and in tough shape. So what does Strong's have to do with anything since it contains compilations by men and is not scripture?

 

[Ingledsva]

Sorry, My Strong's is in storage and in tough shape. So what does Strong's have to do with anything since it contains compilations by men and is not scripture?

Obviously it means they KNOW Emmanuel is Isaiah's son.

As for the scriptural - I showed you that this is exactly what the scripture says.

We are given time-lines.

Three score and five.

And this line confirms it happened THEN, not to a future Jesus.

7:16 For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land before whose two kings you are in dread of will be deserted.

Traditionally this age is 12 - so within twelve years ...

And who are the TWO they dread -

Isa 7:1 And it came to pass in the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, king of Judah, that Rezin the king of Syria, and Pekah the son of Remaliah, king of Israel, went up toward Jerusalem to war against it, but could not prevail against it.

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