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DNA can tell you whether someone is male or female

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
That's true and fine, but I'm talking about individual identity of one's actual physical sex.
What of it? My hands and feet don't give me away, my hips are wide for someone born male, I never had an Adam's apple, and women's clothing fits me better than men's, and even before I started hormones I frequently was referred to as female pronouns.
It just doesn't nicely, neatly fit and work like people such as yourself want to think.
Amd do keep in mind, the brain too is a physical organ.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
What does it matter? I was born female however that's not how I live my life and no one knows until I tell them. Who cares. It's only relevant if I'm going to have sex with someone or they're my doctor, in my life.
It funny how people suddenly bring up stuff that never matters any other time. If I didn't know you and you said anything about having a period and my brain would probably feel like it slammed into an invisible wall upon hearing such an unexpected thing. I'd look at your picture again "him? huh? huh."
We could probably make a show out of us in situations where some bigot yokel wants to misgender us, but is uncomfortable because no one else is because you look like your hair decided it was all going to be beard hair since day one and I look like I could have been my great grandmother's daughter or sister. And that's just looks. After mannerisms everyone else might think the bigot is drunk, lmao.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
What of it? My hands and feet don't give me away, my hips are wide for someone born male, I never had an Adam's apple, and women's clothing fits me better than men's, and even before I started hormones I frequently was referred to as female pronouns.
It just doesn't nicely, neatly fit and work like people such as yourself want to think.
Amd do keep in mind, the brain too is a physical organ.
Any doctor will be able tell your natural sex based on your skeleton. It's not a big deal in terms of one's lifestyle and personal culture, but the actual truth of the matter will always remain physically.

It's just how nature works.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
What does it matter? I was born female however that's not how I live my life and no one knows until I tell them. Who cares. It's only relevant if I'm going to have sex with someone or they're my doctor, in my life.

Same with DNA, chromosomes and the other stuff people blather about as if it's relevant to daily life. I'm sure you're not thinking about those things in regard to yourself.
I'm only talking in terms of physicality. It's not a cultural or personal by which people make their choices involving their person.

I do however think its dishonest to claim one is something their actually not in a natural context which is why I mentioned ones skeleton.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
I'm only talking in terms of physicality. It's not a cultural or personal by which people make their choices involving their person.

I do however think its dishonest to claim one is something their actually not in a natural context which is why I mentioned ones skeleton.
Despite what some people may think, transsexuals aren't delusional. We know what we were born as and what our bodies are like. We know what the limits of medical science are. No, we cannot fully change into the opposite sex. Obviously. Part of handling dysphoria should be accepting reality as it is now, and not expect there to be a magic cure all. However, there are things we can change and there are generally enough to be able to live comfortably as the sex we see ourselves as.

I don't know where people are getting nonsense that we're being "dishonest". That's very insulting. I am what I say I am and my genitals are quite frankly none of your damn business. You wouldn't want people inquiring about your body like that, but people think it's cool to single trans people out for that sort of dehumanization. It's irrelevant to social situations and daily life, unless you're a sex worker or whatever. :rolleyes:
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
I didn't say Bob is crazy.

Phantom pain is in the brain, its mental.
Phantom pain originates in the brain and in the spinal cord as a result of a miscommunication of nervous system signals between your spinal cord and your brain. The nerve connections are still there, but they're damaged and no longer attached to the amputated body part. Nerves in your spinal cord and brain basically end up having to re-wire themselves when they lose signals from the missing body part.

Phantom pain is no longer thought to be psychological in nature, is my point.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Despite what some people may think, transsexuals aren't delusional. We know what we were born as and what our bodies are like. We know what the limits of medical science are. No, we cannot fully change into the opposite sex. Obviously. Part of handling dysphoria should be accepting reality as it is now, and not expect there to be a magic cure all. However, there are things we can change and there are generally enough to be able to live comfortably as the sex we see ourselves as.

I don't know where people are getting nonsense that we're being "dishonest". That's very insulting. I am what I say I am and my genitals are quite frankly none of your damn business. You wouldn't want people inquiring about your body like that, but people think it's cool to single trans people out for that sort of dehumanization. It's irrelevant to social situations and daily life, unless you're a sex worker or whatever. :rolleyes:
I think the point is acceptance and it's a good thing.

The problem as I see it is how it's interfering with natural sex in ways that it's creating issues like those in sports, and issues involving pronouns as some examples.

I don't see why unique identifiers can't be accommodated in addition to natural born sexes using trans orientations as an expansion to male and female. A simple prefix like "trans" would be all that's required imo and screw the pronouns.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Any doctor will be able tell your natural sex based on your skeleton.
It's not always that easy. As I said even forensic anthropologist will sometimes have a hard time telling and sometimes they can't, and forensic anthropologist are top experts when it comes to human bones.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Phantom pain originates in the brain and in the spinal cord as a result of a miscommunication of nervous system signals between your spinal cord and your brain. The nerve connections are still there, but they're damaged and no longer attached to the amputated body part. Nerves in your spinal cord and brain basically end up having to re-wire themselves when they lose signals from the missing body part.

Phantom pain is no longer thought to be psychological in nature, is my point.
It's become clear to me in this thread we must stop thinking of the mind and body as separate. The mental is physical. Even something like an abusive childhood, you won't see physical indications on adults who suffered this, but the abuse is very likely to have caused malformations in the brain and lead to chemical imbalances. We can't see that, but it is physically there.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
It funny how people suddenly bring up stuff that never matters any other time. If I didn't know you and you said anything about having a period and my brain would probably feel like it slammed into an invisible wall upon hearing such an unexpected thing. I'd look at your picture again "him? huh? huh."
We could probably make a show out of us in situations where some bigot yokel wants to misgender us, but is uncomfortable because no one else is because you look like your hair decided it was all going to be beard hair since day one and I look like I could have been my great grandmother's daughter or sister. And that's just looks. After mannerisms everyone else might think the bigot is drunk, lmao.
It's obvious that sex/gender/whatever you want to call it is more than just DNA and karotypes. There's a whole social dimension and internal dimension of it. People mostly go by visual cues and how your voice sounds when determining if they view you as a male or female. For trans man, testosterone is almost always enough for us to be able to be accepted as a man by society, even without any surgery. It's a very powerful thing. But even though estrogen doesn't tend to have profound effects as testosterone, most of the trans women I've known have been able to move comfortably through society as women, especially if they started hormone therapy at least by their 20s or so. It's obvious to me that hormones make the biggest difference, even more than surgery. Of course, many of us are so blessed that we "pass" even without hormones. I know of a lot of people like that. My oldest friend is a trans woman and she looked like a straight up girl even before transitioning. She would be harassed in the men's room over it. I remember her prom photo with her girlfriend in high school and she just looked like a lesbian in a suit and was more feminine looking than her gf. Lol.

It amuses me how cis men respond to me being trans, when they find out somehow. They are usually very jealous and intimidated to an extent. It's funny. They place so much importance in their penis and testicles as the fount of manhood that it's shocking that an individual who lacks those organs can be more masculine than they are. When I'm going to get sexual with a gay guy, they're often shocked when I tell them but still want me and view me as a man. And these guys will be "gold star" gays. Gay bottoms always liked me. I guess it's an energy thing. :D

"you look like your hair decided it was all going to be beard hair since day one and I look like I could have been my great grandmother's daughter or sister."
Lmao!
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
I think the point is acceptance and it's a good thing.

The problem as I see it is how it's interfering with natural sex in ways that it's creating issues like those in sports, and issues involving pronouns as some examples.

I don't see why unique identifiers can't be accommodated in addition to natural born sexes using trans orientations as an expansion to male and female. A simple prefix like "trans" would be all that's required imo and screw the pronouns.
Those are mostly recent controversies that fanatical activists have forced on everyone. Trust me, tons of us are against what's going on in women's sports. It's like I can't stand Caitlyn Jenner but she represents a large number of us when she speaks against it.

The pronoun thing has gotten out of hand in ways, too. It used to be that you transitioned and it just came naturally that people would call you what you are presenting as. But that requires actually looking and behaving as that sex. Now you have people who do nothing to transition except changing their pronouns, and then get mad when people don't see them as a "they/them" automatically (which is rather impossible). I've known people like that and they are unreasonable. The "GameStop ma'am" was also being unreasonable and ridiculous. It completely ignores how the brain processes gendered information from people.
 
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SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
It's become clear to me in this thread we must stop thinking of the mind and body as separate. The mental is physical. Even something like an abusive childhood, you won't see physical indications on adults who suffered this, but the abuse is very likely to have caused malformations in the brain and lead to chemical imbalances. We can't see that, but it is physically there.
As someone who suffers from anxiety and panic disorder, I can attest to that.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
It's obvious that sex/gender/whatever you want to call it is more than just DNA and karotypes. There's a whole social dimension and internal dimension of it. People mostly go by visual cues and how your voice sounds when determining if they view you as a male or female. For trans man, testosterone is almost always enough for us to be able to be accepted as a man by society, even without any surgery. It's a very powerful thing. But even though estrogen doesn't tend to have profound effects as testosterone, most of the trans women I've known have been able to move comfortably through society as women, especially if they started hormone therapy at least by their 20s or so. It's obvious to me that hormones make the biggest difference, even more than surgery. Of course, many of us are so blessed that we "pass" even without hormones. I know of a lot of people like that. My oldest friend is a trans woman and she looked like a straight up girl even before transitioning. She would be harassed in the men's room over it. I remember her prom photo with her girlfriend in high school and she just looked like a lesbian in a suit and was more feminine looking than her gf. Lol.
I do really think we need to start acknowledging hormones as seriously heavy weight drugs, and in a serious way. They do mess with our mental states, they do alter our bodies, and are so potent that even MtFs can end up having psuedo-periods.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
I do really think we need to start acknowledging hormones as seriously heavy weight drugs, and in a serious way. They do mess with our mental states, they do alter our bodies, and are so potent that even MtFs can end up having psuedo-periods.
Yup. But hormones are just thrown around like confetti and people don't take it seriously. It's bizarre that we've been using cross sex hormones to treat transsexuals for a century now but there's hardly any studies on their effects. The FDA still hasn't approved them for this use, so it's off-label. (That's actually why health insurance was able to get out of covering it, because it was "experimental" and off-label.) Many of the effects you only learn about because you've experienced it. They continue to change your body a lot after the first few years, but they (doctors) act like all the big changes happen in the first 2-3 years and after that it mostly stops. That's bs. I'll be 8 years on T this month and I noticed big changes were still happening to me about 2 years ago. After all, puberty itself takes most of a decade to go through, so why would it be different here.

Also, specifically for trans men, it's not often discussed that you should really have your uterus and ovaries removed eventually because testosterone tends to a cause a lot of problems with those and probably increases your risk of cancer. And don't get me started on so-called trans men who are on testosterone therapy and then let themselves get pregnant, when testosterone is a pregnancy category X drug, meaning it can cause serious deformities and problems with the child. Testosterone changes the tissues of the reproductive organs and that includes your eggs being bathed in it. Their kids are basically science experiments at that point.
 
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Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
And don't get me started on so-called trans men who are on testosterone therapy and then let themselves get pregnant, when testosterone is a pregnancy category X drug, meaning it can cause serious deformities and problems with the child. Testosterone changes the tissues of the reproductive organs and that includes your eggs being bathed in it. Their kids are basically science experiments at th
I do worry they may be heightening their child's chances of being transgender.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
I do worry they may be heightening their child's chances of being transgender.
I think their kids will have problems, either way. I know many of them with infants and toddlers tell the press that their baby is perfectly healthy. But I guarantee that many of those kids will end up with mental health and developmental conditions at the least. The time to have kids (naturally) is before you medically transition, is all I can say. I think it is cruel to play such games with a human being before they're even born. I knew I never wanted to be pregnant so I was totally fine with giving that up when I got on testosterone. It's a rather disgusting and disturbing thought to me, although I recognize that motherhood is a wonderful thing for women in general. I mean, I want to be able to father kids, not pop them out. I thought that was the point of being transsexual. :rolleyes:
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I mean, I want to be able to father kids, not pop them out. I thought that was the point of being transsexual. :rolleyes:
I get that.
I think their kids will have problems, either way. I know many of them with infants and toddlers tell the press that their baby is perfectly healthy. But I guarantee that many of those kids will end up with mental health and developmental conditions at the least.
I'm hesitant to say they will have mental health issues. But I also grew up with the idea that interracial coupling shouldn't happen to protect the kids from hypothetical agonies that just don't manifest like they think.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
I get that.

I'm hesitant to say they will have mental health issues. But I also grew up with the idea that interracial coupling shouldn't happen to protect the kids from hypothetical agonies that just don't manifest like they think.
No, the only problems that a mixed race person encounters due to being mixed is society's prejudices. My dad was black and my mom was white, so certainly I know all about that. People treating me and my mom cruelly over it (both black and white) caused me a lot of psychological trauma that caused me to be very resentful and racist myself until I personally underwent a healing process and reconciled my heritage with myself. Now I proudly say I'm mixed and don't feel a need to pigeonhole myself into "black" or "white". I'm just a human being. That stuff goes back to America's nasty history of racial obsession, which I don't really find in most other areas of the world, so it's a social issue. "Black" and "white" are made up racial caste labels and don't exist outside of that.

With the children I was speaking of, I think a lot issues may be caused by the effects of the hormones on the reproductive organs. It at least leads to confusion in some cases. I remember Thomas Beatie, a trans man who gave birth to multiple children, talking about how one of his sons, who is a cis male, thought he would eventually give birth to a child.
 
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