Do All People Have at least some Measure of Worth or Value?

[Quintessence]

In your opinion, do all people have at least some basic measure of worth or value?

Yes, and for me "people" encompasses a great deal more territory than it does for most humans given my animistic orientation. I assign intrinsic value to all things, without exception.

If you believe all people have at least some basic measure of worth or value, why do you believe that?

Respectfulness of all things is common sense and honorable. Seeing sacredness in all things facilitates both personal wellness and wellness in those around you. Put another way, it fosters good relationships and avoids needless adversity. You become more a listener and less of a judger.

 

[Thief]

You don't think one's beliefs have any relationship to one's actions then?

if your hand does anything at all......
it's because you thought you should....or
because you felt like it

your mind or your heart

your thoughts or your feelings

your hand obeys

 

[Sunstone]

if your hand does anything at all......
it's because you thought you should....or
because you felt like it

your mind or your heart

your thoughts or your feelings

your hand obeys

Then why ignore the influence of belief on action in order to assert that you know a tree only by its fruit?

 

[Thief]

Then why ignore the influence of belief on action in order to assert that you know a tree only by its fruit?

a tree performs as it does....it can do nothing else or more

we humans are much the same in that perspective...but

some of us behave......less than human

hard to say why
some children seem to have a poor disposition
and they stay that way

 

[Sunstone]

The difference is that the criminal assumes the worthlessness of people, I don't; you have to prove your worthlessness to me. Worth, to me, is relative. For example, a pediatrician has worth, but if that pediatrician starts sexually molesting his young patients then he becomes worthless (i.e., having no value) no matter how good a doctor he was.

Would you allow torture of someone who you deemed worthless? If not, on what grounds not?

Let me clarify something that seems to be a sticking point in this discussion, I do not seek, nor do I need, the validation and/or approval of others when it comes to my existence. It seems that some folks worry about how they are going to appear to others. Sometimes you simply have to take a stand and let the chips fall where they may (even Jesus knew he couldn't save the entire world).

I'm not sure how that has anything to do with this thread. But if you say so.

 

[Curious George]

In your opinion, do all people have at least some basic measure of worth or value?

If not, is it permissible to kill without further justification those people who do not have at least a basic measure of worth or value? Why or why not?

If you believe all people have at least some basic measure of worth or value, why do you believe that?

Interesting wording.


Water has more value to me when I am thirsty. All value judgement must be relative to something else. A water molecule in a vacuum has no value, because there is nothing towards which it can have value.

Do people have a basic measure of value? No. But Do all people have value? Yes.

Why is that? Well, we do not live in a vacuum, do we?

 

[Thief]

Interesting wording.


Water has more value to me when I am thirsty. All value judgement must be relative to something else. A water molecule in a vacuum has no value, because there is nothing towards which it can have value.

Do people have a basic measure of value? No. But Do all people have value? Yes.

Why is that? Well, we do not live in a vacuum, do we?

wait a minute......
some people have their own sense of value
it might be common....it might not

and then somehow...the same people rise to position greater than their ability
and the masses follow

OOOOOPS!!!!!!!!!

 

[Curious George]

wait a minute......
some people have their own sense of value
it might be common....it might not

and then somehow...the same people rise to position greater than their ability
and the masses follow

OOOOOPS!!!!!!!!!

Value can only be derived from relations. If the only relation is to self, then by what basis do you say such a relation exists?

Relation to self can exist I'd and only if there is relation to something not self.

 

[syo]

In your opinion, do all people have at least some basic measure of worth or value?

If you believe all people have at least some basic measure of worth or value, why do you believe that?

absolutely yes. people are all the same.

 

[Onyx]

I think the assumption that another person lacks value simply because they are not valuable to you is a faulty, but prevalent one. Judgement calls are always in play, both in terms of self-worth and how people are viewed by each other. So I don't see how some particular metric can accurately quantify this concept.

 

[Sunstone]

I think the assumption that another person lacks value simply because they are not valuable to you is a faulty, but prevalent one. Judgement calls are always in play, both in terms of self-worth and how people are viewed by each other. So I don't see how some particular metric can accurately quantify this concept.

Do you think it can be in your self-interest to value other people?

 

[SalixIncendium]

In your opinion, do all people have at least some basic measure of worth or value?

If not, is it permissible to kill without further justification those people who do not have at least a basic measure of worth or value? Why or why not?

If you believe all people have at least some basic measure of worth or value, why do you believe that?

I've been hesitant to respond to this because I'm really having difficulty with the word 'all' and making the distinction between the ego self and the higher Self of people as it relates to the question. There is also the issue with perspective, but here's my (probably incoherent) response anyway...

There are those I've experienced that place little to no value of themselves. For example, an addict that doesn't see a reason for her existence, and out of hopelessness, turns to drugs, not caring if she OD's. However, I see value in that person that she doesn't see. She exceeds others in her abilities on the job and has the best work ethic of practically anyone I've worked with. Her son, despite her history, loves her and respects her. She is smart, and is a deep thinker who are one of the few IRL that relate to my views on spiritual matters. So although she does not recognize any measure of basic worth or value in herself, her worth and value from my perspective and the perspective of her son exist.

I suppose my point is that one's measure of worth and value is a matter of the perspective of the individual you're asking.

 

[Sunstone]

I've been hesitant to respond to this because I'm really having difficulty with the word 'all' and making the distinction between the ego self and the higher Self of people as it relates to the question. There is also the issue with perspective, but here's my (probably incoherent) response anyway...

There are those I've experienced that place little to no value of themselves. For example, an addict that doesn't see a reason for her existence, and out of hopelessness, turns to drugs, not caring if she OD's. However, I see value in that person that she doesn't see. She exceeds others in her abilities on the job and has the best work ethic of practically anyone I've worked with. Her son, despite her history, loves her and respects her. She is smart, and is a deep thinker who are one of the few IRL that relate to my views on spiritual matters. So although she does not recognize any measure of basic worth or value in herself, her worth and value from my perspective and the perspective of her son exist.

I suppose my point is that one's measure of worth and value is a matter of the perspective of the individual you're asking.

That's a very nice post and all, Salix, and I can't fault you for not being thoughtful, but what do you think of this cute kitten pic?

Isn't she adorable!

 

[Sunstone]

I've been hesitant to respond to this because I'm really having difficulty with the word 'all' and making the distinction between the ego self and the higher Self of people as it relates to the question. There is also the issue with perspective, but here's my (probably incoherent) response anyway...

There are those I've experienced that place little to no value of themselves. For example, an addict that doesn't see a reason for her existence, and out of hopelessness, turns to drugs, not caring if she OD's. However, I see value in that person that she doesn't see. She exceeds others in her abilities on the job and has the best work ethic of practically anyone I've worked with. Her son, despite her history, loves her and respects her. She is smart, and is a deep thinker who are one of the few IRL that relate to my views on spiritual matters. So although she does not recognize any measure of basic worth or value in herself, her worth and value from my perspective and the perspective of her son exist.

I suppose my point is that one's measure of worth and value is a matter of the perspective of the individual you're asking.

Seriously, very interesting post! I've noticed over the years that a lot of people -- not just the person you spoke of -- seem oblivious to their own good qualities.

 

[SalixIncendium]

That's a very nice post and all, Salix, and I can't fault you for not being thoughtful, but what do you think of this cute kitten pic?

Isn't she adorable!

Adorable indeed!

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

For awhile I lived in an apartment that had ceiling gerbils. Our cat was terribly entertained. The landlord didn't put out too much effort--well, any effort at all, really--to do away with them. Part of the reason we called the county building and health inspectors...

 

[GreenpeaceRECo-operative]

Do you think there are any negative consequences to you that come about as a consequence of believing some people do not have even a basic measure of worth or value?

I find the Q & A interesting, so I´ll just throw in my piece for myself. That is, apparently Cruz didn´t kill himself, but did enter into the fray in which he could easily have already been killed by police, no less.

Shifting to spiritual cause and effect, with socioeconomic factors no less to modernize it, it is easy to see how modern US society has created a lot of momentum around materialism and inequality. Empathetic values have largely remained confined to core Bernie Sanders and Green Party values, Therapeutic Psychology professionals, and various people in touch with spiritual values in practices like Buddhism, Yoga, the Recovery Movement, and things comparable to John Bradshaw style psychotherapy.

Even more so, are the socioeconomic practices of the co-operative business model embodied in Fair Trade certified foods and food co-operatives.

Places like Germany, Denmark, Emiglia Romana Italy, and Mondragon Spain, like Vermont in the US, have strong social capitalisms that are reflected in policies that support the broader public interest and respect human potential more widely and generously. A good start to beginning a movement to change US culture would be to join a food co-op and promote empathetic practices like M Rosenberg´s Non-Violent Communication. William Greider´s book The Soul of Capitalism and Marj Kelly´s books Divine Right of Capital and Owning Our Future are good starts as well. John Bradshaw´s books are good starts, too. Al Gore even referred to him in his earlier work, Earth in the Balance.

 

[Onyx]

Do you think it can be in your self-interest to value other people?

I don't see why not, especially if they value you in return. I've learned more through building relationships than I could have otherwise.

 

[YmirGF]

In your opinion, do all people have at least some basic measure of worth or value?

If not, is it permissible to kill without further justification those people who do not have at least a basic measure of worth or value? Why or why not?

If you believe all people have at least some basic measure of worth or value, why do you believe that?

The UN Declaration of Human rights covers my position. Sadly, @BSM1 it covers everyone. I'm also inclined to go along with the view that @Quintessence outlined and don't limit this to the human race, although if I want to put in a new hot tub, a tree is going to go.

I think, overall, when we vilify the monsters among us, we only serve to perpetuate the monstrosity. Yes, we can be horrified, but I believe they stand out, as a reminder, of what we are capable of both individually and en masse.

 

[GreenpeaceRECo-operative]

The UN Declaration of Human rights covers my position. Sadly, @BSM1 it covers everyone. I'm also inclined to go along with the view that @Quintessence outlined and don't limit this to the human race, although if I want to put in a new hot tub, a tree is going to go.

If you plant a new one somewhere else, will anyone hear it, even if it doesn´t fall?