Do animals have souls?

[jeffrey]

I do love dogs. My wife loves cats. We had a stay cat show up shortly after we moved in. It's like the stray knew my wife loves cats. She started feeding it. soon, other cats showed up. Like they talked to each other and told them "HEY! FREE FOOD AT REBECCA'S HOUSE!" We now go through about 5lbs of cat food a week feeding strays. I'd rather feed them then let the coyotes get them!

 

[Valjean]

There is no reason one can't be reborn as onesself, one's wife, ones grandfather, or a Neanderthal, Michel. Remember that time is purely subjective, the steady past-to-future flow we perceive violates relativity theory.

 

[jeffrey]

Perhaps you'll come back as your wife....

Question: What biological/qualitative differences are there that produce souls in hominids but not in Canids or felids?
Do you have any links to studies or research projects?

how could I come back as my wife? And all the studies that I've studied of dogs and cats have come from 'animal cops' , and sesame street.

 

[Evenstar]

There is no reason one can't be reborn as onesself, one's wife, ones grandfather, or a Neanderthal, Michel. Remember that time is purely subjective, the steady past-to-future flow we perceive violates relativity theory.

Hmm good thought, I hope I come back as michel, he is so intelligent

 

[Dark_Waltz]

I am so sorry to hear about your dog, BUT I believe he is still with you.

I have No doubt she is

 

[jeffrey]

Hmm good thought, I hope I come back as michel, he is so intelligent

Gee, thanks! See what you got started now, michel! LOL!

 

[Quiddity]

From a catholic perspective animals and plants do have souls. But they are animal souls and plant souls. Specific souls that are different then human souls.

Three terms are used for the soul: nephesh, nuah, and neshamah; the first was taken to refer to the animal and vegetative nature, the second to the ethical principle, the third to the purely spiritual intelligence. At all events, it is evident that the Old Testament throughout either asserts or implies the distinct reality of the soul. An important contribution to later Jewish thought was the infusion of Platonism into it by Philo of Alexandria. He taught the immediately Divine origin of the soul, its pre-existence and transmigration; he contrasts the pneuma, or spiritual essence, with the soul proper, the source of vital phenomena, whose seat is the blood; finally he revived the old Platonic Dualism, attributing the origin of sin and evil to the union of spirit with matter.

NEW ADVENT

 

[michel]

I know what you mean, when I was 5 I saw this dog born and we grew up together she was very special to me we had a very close relationship, My parents thought I was mad because I would talk to her,
She seemed to have a sixth sense too,
Then in June I lost her and greived for her more so than members of my own family that I have lost.
She had as every bit a soul as anyone I know

I'm sorry I missed your post; I know what you mean though. I had a cat die in my arms, waiting for the vet surgery to open. I felt just as bad as at the death of humans I have known.

 

[Katzpur]

My wife and I are having a disagreement over this. I do not believe they do. She thinks they do! This discussion started over the reincarnation thread. She believes that if reincarnation does exist, she might come back as a cat! I can't fathom that, because I don't believe animals have souls, Your thoughts?

I'm with your wife on this one, Jeff. I'd substitute the word "spirit" for "soul," though, since I understand the spirit and the body combine to form "a living soul." To me, a spirit is the life force that makes a person unique. Personality is part of it, but it's more than merely personality. I'm a devoted animal-lover. My pets mean the world to me. When they die, I believe that their spirits will leave their bodies just the same as when a human being dies. I also believe that, through Jesus Christ, they will be resurrected. I suppose that's a kind of an off-the-wall concept to most people, but it's what I believe. That's not to say that animals spirits and human spirits are the same; I don't believe they are. But I do believe that they have a thinking, feeling, cognizant life force which inhabits their bodies during their lifetimes. It's what I would call their spirit, and I guess it's what you would call their soul.

 

[michel]

I'm with your wife on this one, Jeff. I'd substitute the word "spirit" for "soul," though, since I understand the spirit and the body combine to form "a living soul." To me, a spirit is the life force that makes a person unique. Personality is part of it, but it's more than merely personality. I'm a devoted animal-lover. My pets mean the world to me. When they die, I believe that their spirits will leave their bodies just the same as when a human being dies. I also believe that, through Jesus Christ, they will be resurrected. I suppose that's a kind of an off-the-wall concept to most people, but it's what I believe. That's not to say that animals spirits and human spirits are the same; I don't believe they are. But I do believe that they have a thinking, feeling, cognizant life force which inhabits their bodies during their lifetimes. It's what I would call their spirit, and I guess it's what you would call their soul.

That's not to say that animals spirits and human spirits are the same

Do you have any idea in how they differ?

 

[Katzpur]

LOL! we have made up, he just thinks im crazy, the dog bit him for saying that she didnt have a soul.... that showed him

:biglaugh: Good for the dog! :biglaugh: I love yours and Jeff's avatars, but I think it's funny that his is a cat and yours is a dog since he likes dogs better and you like cats better. Me... I'd be hard-pressed to make a choice between them.

 

[Katzpur]

Then in June I lost her and greived for her more so than members of my own family that I have lost. She had as every bit a soul as anyone I know

I know exactly what you mean. I had a Cocker Spaniel that I mourned for months and months after she died. I simply could not get over her death. Animals have souls. Period. End of debate!

 

[jeffrey]

Ok! I throw it the towel! And Kat, since I love my wife, I love her cats, so the avatar represents my love for her. Rebecca loves wolves, so hence, her avatar. (And the fact I got the cat one 1st!)

 

[Katzpur]

Do you have any idea in how they differ?

Not in very specific terms. I believe that since we are created in God's image, human beings have a spirit that is more like God's. We have the ability to be able to distinguish right from wrong. In the Garden of Eden, after Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, God said, "Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil." Animals, I don't believe, have the ability to make decisions of a truly moral nature. Maybe that's why I like them so much. I don't believe they can be "evil." They sometimes do bad things, but I would attribute these things to instinct or to the will to survive, or -- when they have been abused by people -- out of fear. Because they don't have a moral consciousness, I don't believe they have the same divine potential we human beings do. It kind of gets back to my belief that in order for us to be able to progress spiritually, there must be opposition in all things. They can't know (at least not to the extent we can) the difference between good and evil, so their progression is somewhat limited. On the other hand, they do have emotions, and anyone who says they don't is just plain wrong!

As to how this distinction extends to plants, I'm less certain. But, the fact that we know plants can be either alive or dead does, to me, imply the existance of a spirit component. Also, that's part of LDS doctrine, though none of our leaders have ever elaborated on it. We believe that God created the spirits for all His creations before He created them physically. So, once again, I believe this extends in some way, to plants. I've heard of scientific studies in which plants in separate "test groups" were exposed to different types of music. They responded differently to classical music than they did to hard rock. All I can really remember about the study was that the group of plants that were in a room where classical music was being played, eventually started growing towards the source of the music. I don't know that it really proves anything, but I found it interesting anyway.

I've done a very small amount of research into early Christian beliefs concerning whether or not animals have souls, and did learn something quite interesting. For instance, one early Christian document, "The Secrets of Enoch," states that animals will appear at the bar of God's judgment to accuse human who have wronged them. Obviously, this is not Christian "doctrine" today, but it's possible that the ancient Christians believed this to be true. Also, in the Bible (in Revelation 4), there is mention of four beasts who were seen by John as praising and glorifying God. To me, that sounds like they have immortal souls. I think they have far greater wisdom than we often give them credit for.

 

[Evenstar]

Im with you Katzpur, I look into my animals eyes and I see a soul. I lost a cat only a few months back, and swore he was here, I also cryed for days, it upset me so much.

I really enjoyed reading every bodies posts in this thread.​

 

[Katzpur]

Im with you Katzpur, I look into my animals eyes and I see a soul. I lost a cat only a few months back, and swore he was here, I also cryed for days, it upset me so much.

I'll have to tell you about an experience I had once, Rebecca. I had a cat, Josie, that I'd got as a stray when it was fairly young. I think her parents must have been pretty wild, because she never, in all the time I had her, ever warmed up to people the way other cats I'd had did. I had her for 18 years! During that time, I tried and tried to get her to want to sit on my lap or even next to me on the couch. I would have been happy if she'd rubbed up against my legs and purred. Now I've had enough cats to know that most of them are, by nature, somewhat aloof and independent. The cat I have now is super loving and friendly, but she's still a cat, if you know what I mean. But Josie was the epitome of aloof. I never felt an ounce of love from her.

Well, during Josie's last few months, she had a lot of health problems. We even ended up having to have one of her legs amputated. It cost us a small fortune, but the vet assured us that she could still have a quality life with just three legs. We were amazed at how well she adapted. Finally, though, she stopped eating and started losing a lot of weight. When we took her in to the vet that time, she said that Josie's condition was terminal. We made the hard decision to put her to sleep. We decided to stay with her when the vet gave her the injection, even though we didn't know whether it would give her any comfort at all to have us there. After all, she didn't seem to have found much comfort in having lived with us for 18 years.

Anyway, the vet let her lie down on a towel on the examining table and gave her the shot. She told us it would be painless and would just take a few minutes to end Josie's life. I stood next to her and petted her the whole time. I had expected that she would just close her eyes and eventually stop breathing. But what actually happened astonished me. She was in a position where she really couldn't see me; I was kind of behind her. A few seconds after the vet injected her, she suddenly craned her neck so that she would be able to see me. I don't know why she wanted to see me. She seemed to be completely at peace and not suffering at all. But then she did something she had not done in 18 years. She looked directly into my eyes (kind of the way a dog will often do). And when she did, I saw an understanding and a love that I had never seen in her eyes before. We just looked into each other's eyes and I felt so strongly that she was thinking, "Oh, now I see! You really loved me, didn't you? All those years... And now you're helping me to move on. Thank you. I love you, too, you know." People who have never seen that look will balk, but I know Josie's spirit was about to leave her body and I believe God allowed us a brief moment of connection we'd never had before. I will never forget it as long as I live.

 

[Bangbang]

I suppose it depends on what definition of Soul you are using. Check these definitions out.


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&oi=defmore&defl=en&q=define:soul

 

[Dark_Waltz]

I'm sorry I missed your post; I know what you mean though. I had a cat die in my arms, waiting for the vet surgery to open. I felt just as bad as at the death of humans I have known.

Sorry Michel. and yeah but I guess I was lucky she was 16

 

[jeffrey]

Wow, Kat, had trouble reading the end. Tears in my eyes. I've had to bury a couple of dogs that I loved, but nothing compared to that.

And Terry, what a wonderful story!​

All these stories about their pets. Looks like our dog and stray cats will be eating left over turkey. Give them all a treat for being 'soul filled'!

 

[Katzpur]

Looks like our dog and stray cats will be eating left over turkey. Give them all a treat for being 'soul filled'!

Yippee! :woohoo: I'm sure they'll love you for it!