Do Athiests have morals?

[sun rise]

This might be a separate thread, but we could turn this around and ask the theists:

Is your religion consistently moral? My experience is that all the major religions offer a set of morals that might have been state of the art 2000 years ago, but which are no longer the best moral ideas available. And so reasonable theists are left to cherry-pick their religions for the bits of morality that are still valid in 2014.

Examples: Christians and Muslims are both instructed to kill adulterers, the RC church behaves in ways that prefer AIDS to condoms, many Muslims think apostasy should be a crime, and both religions - even in modern times - often cry "blasphemy" in opposition to freedom of expression.

So, where do theist "really" get their morals?

You are to some degree conflating theists with people who follow a religion. There are many who believe in God but are not religious adherents (and more every day).

But you are also wrong about Christians and Muslims being instructed to kill adulterers. The "fun" thing about religion is that it provides great opportunities for people to read scriptures in any way that suits them.

I'm not a Christian, but the way I read the Bible says that there are two fundamental commandments and that anything which appears to contradict those laws is false:

Matthew 22:36-40
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Those two commandments both say that love is fundamental and nothing is true unless love is the foundation and expression.

Of course others read scriptures differently.

My thought is thus that whether or not one believes in God or follows any religion, essential morality comes from the nature of being human, the human heart or human soul depending on how you express the thought.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Look, there issue at hand is where did morals come from in the first place. Someone had to think of it. You lean toward a notion where anybody can come up with their own standards of morals on a whim. Does it mean that this is how Athiests operate?

The majority or morals are brought about on a whim. You espouse to a deity or a higher power for your morals as they are written in your scripture. The old testament has over 600 commandments but many of you have take your top "ten commandments"...as the base of much of your morality and even then....those ten are highly subjective and interpreted and re-interpreted by the followers.......but like I said.....even those rules go back further to previous cultures. Morality come from within and without.....

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Since I believe in God, I believe that nobody can escape his influence whether they believe in God or not. God implants within every human a conscience, a sense of right and wrong. Atheists are guided by that conscience when they choose to be kind or to do good, just like a believer.

And I find this to be an insult....

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Quick definitions for the unlearned:

Amoral: lacking a moral sense; unconcerned with the rightness or wrongness of something.

Immoral: not conforming to accepted standards of morality.

Moral: concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior and the goodness or badness of human character.

When someone claims that he/she is irreligious, does it give them justifications to negate teachings of religious communities. For example, thou not steal. Does it give someone who claims to be irreligious the right to steal?

Also, which of the above words excellently describes the life of an Athiest?

Immoral, Amoral and Moral are all potential ways to describe any individual not just any specific group and there are no specific groups whose members contain a uniform label of any of those three.

In fact it would be difficult usually to pin down just one for a single person. People usually have done immoral and moral things in their life.

But yes atheists can have morals and I have seen that most do. Usually secular humanists or some self internalized version of this.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

And I find this to be an insult....

Really? I don't, actually. I liken it to me saying that whether someone believes in God or not, in my opinion they're working to a man-made moral code.
Not saying you're not allowed to be insulted, just found it an interesting perspective.

 

[McBell]

But yes atheists can have morals and I have seen that most do. Usually secular humanists or some self internalized version of this.

Out of curiosity, who does not have morals?

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Out of curiosity, who does not have morals?

Immoral individuals would probably be sever apathetics or individuals with unstable mental conditions. At any given time someone could "loose" their morals. This is why we have "crimes of passion". Temporary moments where individuals do things they normally wouldn't in their right and logical mind. This would be a case of Amorality rather than immorality.

 

[LuisDantas]

Really? I don't, actually. I liken it to me saying that whether someone believes in God or not, in my opinion they're working to a man-made moral code.
Not saying you're not allowed to be insulted, just found it an interesting perspective.

It is interesting and difficult to avoid given the premises.

And sure, it is not at all offensive. I just don't agree that one of its premises (that God exists) is true.

 

[McBell]

Immoral individuals would probably be sever apathetics or individuals with unstable mental conditions. At any given time someone could "loose" their morals. This is why we have "crimes of passion". Temporary moments where individuals do things they normally wouldn't in their right and logical mind. This would be a case of Amorality rather than immorality.

So you are of the mind that immoral means no morals?

I am of the mind that immoral means "morals that differ from my own".

 

[Levite]

Quick definitions for the unlearned:

Amoral: lacking a moral sense; unconcerned with the rightness or wrongness of something.

Immoral: not conforming to accepted standards of morality.

Moral: concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior and the goodness or badness of human character.

When someone claims that he/she is irreligious, does it give them justifications to negate teachings of religious communities. For example, thou not steal. Does it give someone who claims to be irreligious the right to steal?

Also, which of the above words excellently describes the life of an Athiest?

Morality is not synonymous with religion. Why would atheists by definition be immoral or even amoral?

Morality can be derived from any number of philosophical systems and processes. Religion is only one of them. Sure, the Torah, the Christian Bible, the Quran, and other such religious scriptures say not to steal and kill: so do a whole bunch of different philosophers, including plenty who either predate the scriptures of Western religion or come from cultures and times that never encountered those scriptures.

And there are plenty of religious people who don't seem to be doing a very good job with the morality their religion actually prescribes. Which seems to prove all the more that religion and morality are not synonymous.

So it seems to me that there are moral people and immoral or amoral people; some of each are religious, and some of each are atheist. It probably depends a lot more on the specific person, and a lot less on what their professed theology or atheology is.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Morality is not synonymous with religion. Why would atheists by definition be immoral or even amoral?

Morality can be derived from any number of philosophical systems and processes. Religion is only one of them. Sure, the Torah, the Christian Bible, the Quran, and other such religious scriptures say not to steal and kill: so do a whole bunch of different philosophers, including plenty who either predate the scriptures of Western religion or come from cultures and times that never encountered those scriptures.

And there are plenty of religious people who don't seem to be doing a very good job with the morality their religion actually prescribes. Which seems to prove all the more that religion and morality are not synonymous.

So it seems to me that there are moral people and immoral or amoral people; some of each are religious, and some of each are atheist. It probably depends a lot more on the specific person, and a lot less on what their professed theology or atheology is.

^^Quoted for truth

 

[LuisDantas]

So you are of the mind that immoral means no morals?

Isn't the usual understanding that immoral means "lacking in moral justification"?

I am of the mind that immoral means "morals that differ from my own".

I think we have no frequently-used word for that, mainly because people dont often appeal to immorality while also believing that morals can simply vary from one person to another.

 

[Scott C.]

And I find this to be an insult....

Are you insulted that I believe that God influences you for good? I don't understand why you would be.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

So you are of the mind that immoral means no morals?

I am of the mind that immoral means "morals that differ from my own".

Immoral is someone who has morals but would either go against someone else's or their own. We all have morals that we break ourselves. Amoral means "without morals".

 

[McBell]

Isn't the usual understanding that immoral means "lacking in moral justification"?

I have not seen it used as such.
Though the user may seem to think that just because my morals (which I do have) do not line up with their morals, I must not have any morals at all.

I think we have no frequently-used word for that, mainly because people dont often appeal to immorality while also believing that morals can simply vary from one person to another.

Thus the reason people use the term "immoral" when they really mean "morals that differ from my own"

 

[McBell]

Are you insulted that I believe that God influences you for good? I don't understand why you would be.

Some people do not require the threat of punishment or the hope of reward to be good.
Your claim implies otherwise.

 

[LuisDantas]

I have not seen it used as such.
Though the user may seem to think that just because my morals (which I do have) do not line up with their morals, I must not have any morals at all.


Thus the reason people use the term "immoral" when they really mean "morals that differ from my own"

I beg to differ. Far as I can tell, I have never understood the word with such a meaning, nor do I support it.

 

[LuisDantas]

Some people do not require the threat of punishment or the hope of reward to be good.
Your claim implies otherwise.

Does it? His post #16 says:

Since I believe in God, I believe that nobody can escape his influence whether they believe in God or not. God implants within every human a conscience, a sense of right and wrong. Atheists are guided by that conscience when they choose to be kind or to do good, just like a believer.

He is simply saying that he believes atheists are creations of God much like anyone else (according to his beliefs) and no more or less gifted with a moral conscience.

I have a hard time seeing any lack of respect there.

 

[McBell]

I beg to differ. Far as I can tell, I have never understood the word with such a meaning, nor do I support it.

So who then does not have any morals?

I contend that there is not a single person alive, who has ever lived, or will ever live who has no morals.
Everyone has morals.
Disagreement with someone elses morals does not mean the one with the morals disagreed with does not have morals.

 

[McBell]

I have a hard time seeing any lack of respect there.

I did not say nor imply that it was disrespectful.
Mainly because I do not find it so.

I merely offered up one possible reason why those who do find it offensive might.