Do bible and coran present a sadistic god?

[lewisnotmiller]

Your way of arguing is in my eyes a better way to argue, actually many could lean to think in a similar way as you give your understanding and wisdom. And yes I should also learn from your way of writing here, you have good points, without trashing believers

I've learnt a lot from believers and non-believers alike, so the last thing I'm interested in doing is trashing them due to whether they believe in God or not.
I have plenty of friends who are believers...we just think differently about God.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I agree that worshipping physical objects and money is problematic. I'd quibble on how 'new' this is, or how it's the natural 'replacement' of religion though.
I don't worship God. That doesn't mean I do worship objects or money.



I agree to some level. However, for whatever reason, there are a lot of believers who do follow them literally. And there are even more believers who have impacted on the course of nations due to their beliefs in these scriptures, be they literal or not.
So it is not enough to merely suggest they are for personal growth and leave it at that. These things impact on my world in very real ways.

,
Yes you are correct, what used to be a personal spiritual path true cultivation paths, did become what we see as religions today. And unfortunately many who have become religious have found that they want everyone to be like them, that is not possible and it is also a wrong way of thinking. Would I like to see more people understand the spiritual way of life, yes, but I can not force them to become spiritual, I think it is important to have mutual respect for every religion even we do not follow them?
I do respect atheists of course, but sometimes a few of them go to far in trashing religious people or religion in it self. But maybe I just have to live with it and do my own thing

 

[dybmh]

God is not evil but there is crookedness in what primitive people ascribed to God

Spoken like a real missionary...

 

[wellwisher]

When Eve and Adam ate the tree of knowledge of good and evil, paradise was sealed, along wth the tree of life. The topic of this discussion is an artifact of this decision by Adam and Eve to subjectively label everything using good and evil value judgments. The topic is about knowledge and good and evil, being used to infer and create a separation between God, paradise, and other humans.

Satan was in the tree of knowledge of good and evil. When you choose knowledge of good and evil or law as the basis for judgment, you choose the way of Satan over God. God said not to eat of this tree. If you wish to know God, you cannot make these judgements, but rather need to accept based on faith.

Let me give you a practical example of this contrast. If you were in the wild and saw a pack of wolves kill and eat a deer, this is not judged as good or evil. It would be considered, morally neutral, since it is connected to natural law and instinct. This is how things have evolved. This is the tree of life, since it defines life as it is and not how we judge it to be.

On the other hand, if you eat of the tree of knowledge; make willful moral value judgments of everything, this natural act of the wolf may no longer be seen as natural to you. Rather it is now judged based on a human value judgment. This value judgement could means that you now feel the need to enforce your value, by punishing the wolves, for killing and eating. You have become like a little god. as Satan promised. This dynamics is projected into the God of the old Testament, since it was the way humans behaved and acted but not fully conscious; becomes projected.

The tree of life was sealed, less humans tried to impose their subjective value judgments onto nature, and create a mutant natural environment, that will nevertheless evolve via artificial selection. You shall surely die, means these subjective values will throw off the natural balance of nature, even though it may appear to satisfy human subjectivity. In the end, it will cause death in nature. Too many deer will cause disease and death that was worse than the portion of the wolves.

When Adam and Eve were in paradise, before they chose the power to judge right and wrong or good and evil, they acted on impulse, in natural ways, that were integrated with perpetual creation; natural human nature. There was no right or wrong, because all impulse was natural. Afterwards they; humans, attempted to value judge reality, causing creation to become repressed and perverted.

Jesus taught the forgiveness of sins. This weakened the impact of law and Satan since it watered down the enforcements aspect law. Sin is not fully acknowledged, if there is no punishment. If you broke the speed limit and the officer let you go, there is no sin, since you were only given a warning without punishment. The idea was to return to natural impulse, where you do not make subjective value judgments. Rather learn to act on faith, like the animal; inner spirit. This allows the tree of life to become restored; natural human instinct.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Yes, definetly.
Judge by yourself :

- bible (deuteronome 28:63)
"the eternal will take pleasure make you perish and destroy you"

- bible (10 orders)
"because I am a jealous god"

- the coran allows slavery and even sexual slavery :

god is a sadistic *** with no ball but with 100% arrogance and cruelty.
god needs your ignorance and stupidity.
god mixes good with evil because god is evil but hides his evilness behind the good acts of humans.

That's the Abrahamic God for ya.

 

[Twilight Hue]

When Eve and Adam ate the tree of knowledge of good and evil, paradise was sealed, along wth the tree of life. The topic of this discussion is an artifact of this decision by Adam and Eve to subjectively label everything using good and evil value judgments. The topic is about knowledge and good and evil, being used to infer and create a separation between God, paradise, and other humans.

Satan was in the tree of knowledge of good and evil. When you choose knowledge of good and evil or law as the basis for judgment, you choose the way of Satan over God. God said not to eat of this tree. If you wish to know God, you cannot make these judgements, but rather need to accept based on faith.

Let me give you a practical example of this contrast. If you were in the wild and saw a pack of wolves kill and eat a deer, this is not judged as good or evil. It would be considered, morally neutral, since it is connected to natural law and instinct. This is how things have evolved. This is the tree of life, since it defines life as it is and not how we judge it to be.

On the other hand, if you eat of the tree of knowledge; make willful moral value judgments of everything, this natural act of the wolf may no longer be seen as natural to you. Rather it is now judged based on a human value judgment. This value judgement could means that you now feel the need to enforce your value, by punishing the wolves, for killing and eating. You have become like a little god. as Satan promised. This dynamics is projected into the God of the old Testament, since it was the way humans behaved and acted but not fully conscious; becomes projected.

The tree of life was sealed, less humans tried to impose their subjective value judgments onto nature, and create a mutant natural environment, that will nevertheless evolve via artificial selection. You shall surely die, means these subjective values will throw off the natural balance of nature, even though it may appear to satisfy human subjectivity. In the end, it will cause death in nature. Too many deer will cause disease and death that was worse than the portion of the wolves.

When Adam and Eve were in paradise, before they chose the power to judge right and wrong or good and evil, they acted on impulse, in natural ways, that were integrated with perpetual creation; natural human nature. There was no right or wrong, because all impulse was natural. Afterwards they; humans, attempted to value judge reality, causing creation to become repressed and perverted.

Jesus taught the forgiveness of sins. This weakened the impact of law and Satan since it watered down the enforcements aspect law. Sin is not fully acknowledged, if there is no punishment. If you broke the speed limit and the officer let you go, there is no sin, since you were only given a warning without punishment. The idea was to return to natural impulse, where you do not make subjective value judgments. Rather learn to act on faith, like the animal; inner spirit. This allows the tree of life to become restored; natural human instinct.

I suppose it could be argued that Adam and Eve should have known right from wrong beforehand, rather than after the fact.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Yes, definetly.
Judge by yourself :

- bible (deuteronome 28:63)
"the eternal will take pleasure make you perish and destroy you"

- bible (10 orders)
"because I am a jealous god"

- the coran allows slavery and even sexual slavery :

god is a sadistic *** with no ball but with 100% arrogance and cruelty.
god needs your ignorance and stupidity.
god mixes good with evil because god is evil but hides his evilness behind the good acts of humans.

Monotheism's attitude is often "my god or the highway to hell.":

 

[Sand Dancer]

I find there is a BIG difference between jealous and envy.
You can be jealous for your good name to protect it.
Whereas an envious person wants to destroy what you have.

Having a jealous deity does not seem like a positive.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I can be wrong in some cases, yes, and most of the times I have been humble enough to admit I was wrong when I learn a higher wisdom of what I was speaking about, But if you look at the OP, it is very clear that the author of the OP has little or no interest in finding the truth about Christianity or other religions for that matter. If a person has an interest in finding the truth, they would benefit from looking at both the negative and the positive written words in the Bible and then ask questions about it. But we see time and time again that nonbelievers smearing the believers or the written word from the bible or the Qu`ran when discussing Islam.
What attitude are you speaking about by the way? Is it ok for a nonbeliever to smear believers but when a believer ask nonbelievers questions or see their lack of knowledge about the topic in hand, to try to help them understand what religion actually is, it becomes arrogance?

Still coming across as arrogant. Plenty of people have analysed the Bible and come to rather different conclusions than those who seem to take it as presented - or those analysing it to suit their particular beliefs.

I highlighted the particular section:

Because if you do not believe or have faith in God, How are you going to understand the true meaning of the Bible? You have to raise your wisdom to understand, so yes it is not enough to only believe, it is hard work mostly every day to get up to the standard that is required to even see the first truth of God.

Seems to me that you have a rather one-sided view of wisdom and intellectual endeavour. That is, for any who don't subscribe to your or any particular religious belief - or belief in God. Perhaps many don't go further (than necessary) into religious texts because they don't need to. Perhaps believing in God is the first step in a downward path of intellectual dishonesty?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Still coming across as arrogant. Plenty of people have analysed the Bible and come to rather different conclusions than those who seem to take it as presented - or those analysing it to suit their particular beliefs.

I highlighted the particular section:

Because if you do not believe or have faith in God, How are you going to understand the true meaning of the Bible? You have to raise your wisdom to understand, so yes it is not enough to only believe, it is hard work mostly every day to get up to the standard that is required to even see the first truth of God.

Seems to me that you have a rather one-sided view of wisdom and intellectual endeavour. That is, for any who don't subscribe to your or any particular religious belief - or belief in God. Perhaps many don't go further (than necessary) into religious texts because they don't need to. Perhaps believing in God is the first step in a downward path of intellectual dishonesty?

I do not say my way of understanding the truth is the only way. But if you look at those who do enlighten to the truth within a religion or spiritual path, they do have to work from within to realize the truth. For those who just wish to believe or not believe that is fine too, None of my business, but I do react when i see people trying to trash talk religions.

I have been doing the hard way for more than 20 years within Buddhism and still, I get reminded that my knowledge or wisdom is still fairly low compared to those who really understand spiritual life.
In no way do I try to come across as arrogant, But to speak truthfully is sometimes hurtful for those who do not see the truth the same way.
Do I see the ultimate truth within the spiritual life we need to live? No, i do not see the full truth still have much to realize

 

[ChristineM]

the coran allows slavery and even sexual slavery

So does the bible.

Considering both Qur'an and Bible are mostly copied from the Tanakh i i don't find this surprising

 

[ChristineM]

Why is it that people who want to smear religion are only able to find what can look negative within the religious texts, but they ignore all the love and kindness with in the same book?

This works both ways, those who consider the holy books to be good, ignore the bad bits.

 

[Spirit of Light]

This works both ways, those who consider the holy books to be good, ignore the bad bits.

Maybe it be that what is written as "bad habbits" actually are a warning of what will happen to people who do not understand the scripture? That for those who choose to ignore the truth can end up killing others, raping, and doing all the negative that is written in the scriptures?
But in the time from the teaching was given until now, someone changed the words used so it look like what religious people should/could do are the bad things? And that example it is here where terrorists get their view from? (i do not know the answer to this, but it is a thought )

 

[sealchan]

Yes, definetly.
Judge by yourself :

- bible (deuteronome 28:63)
"the eternal will take pleasure make you perish and destroy you"

- bible (10 orders)
"because I am a jealous god"

- the coran allows slavery and even sexual slavery :

god is a sadistic *** with no ball but with 100% arrogance and cruelty.
god needs your ignorance and stupidity.
god mixes good with evil because god is evil but hides his evilness behind the good acts of humans.

And what about nature? Or humanity? Do either fare any better?

 

[ChristineM]

Maybe it be that what is written as "bad habbits" actually are a warning of what will happen to people who do not understand the scripture? That for those who choose to ignore the truth can end up killing others, raping, and doing all the negative that is written in the scriptures?
But in the time from the teaching was given until now, someone changed the words used so it look like what religious people should/could do are the bad things? And that example it is here where terrorists get their view from? (i do not know the answer to this, but it is a thought )

And maybe its the threats and imagination of bronze age authors

The bible for example condones the murder, slavery (and sex slavery) of those considered enemies. So it is not those ignoring what you purport to call truth who are committing atrosities but god believers killing and raping in his name.

Who changed the words? The origin, the Tanakh is faithful to original texts. Both Qur'an and bible are copied from that and both claim (although not always true) accuracy.

 

[Spirit of Light]

And maybe its the threats and imagination of bronze age authors

The bible for example condones the murder, slavery (and sex slavery) of those considered enemies. So it is not those ignoring what you purport to call truth who are committing atrosities but god believers killing and raping in his name.

Who changed the words? The origin, the Tanakh is faithful to original texts. Both Qur'an and bible are copied from that and both claim (although not always true) accuracy.

When looking at the dead sea scrolls it is easy to see that words and meaning in the bible today have different meanings. And if we look at the bible of today, The part where they discuss homosexuality has been changed so it looks like it is ok when it was, in the beginning, clear that homosexual act was seen as a sin. Today the word sin has been removed because it is "evil" to call someone a sinner. So yes the scripture has been changed and lost its true meaning in many ways. And if I remember correctly it even says in the bible, You should not change even one word of the truth that was given in the teaching.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Present and intent may be different.
Whatever may have been written in the scriptures (does it really matter?), weigh it against what happened in the history.

 

[sealchan]

When Eve and Adam ate the tree of knowledge of good and evil, paradise was sealed, along wth the tree of life. The topic of this discussion is an artifact of this decision by Adam and Eve to subjectively label everything using good and evil value judgments. The topic is about knowledge and good and evil, being used to infer and create a separation between God, paradise, and other humans.

Satan was in the tree of knowledge of good and evil. When you choose knowledge of good and evil or law as the basis for judgment, you choose the way of Satan over God. God said not to eat of this tree. If you wish to know God, you cannot make these judgements, but rather need to accept based on faith.

Let me give you a practical example of this contrast. If you were in the wild and saw a pack of wolves kill and eat a deer, this is not judged as good or evil. It would be considered, morally neutral, since it is connected to natural law and instinct. This is how things have evolved. This is the tree of life, since it defines life as it is and not how we judge it to be.

On the other hand, if you eat of the tree of knowledge; make willful moral value judgments of everything, this natural act of the wolf may no longer be seen as natural to you. Rather it is now judged based on a human value judgment. This value judgement could means that you now feel the need to enforce your value, by punishing the wolves, for killing and eating. You have become like a little god. as Satan promised. This dynamics is projected into the God of the old Testament, since it was the way humans behaved and acted but not fully conscious; becomes projected.

The tree of life was sealed, less humans tried to impose their subjective value judgments onto nature, and create a mutant natural environment, that will nevertheless evolve via artificial selection. You shall surely die, means these subjective values will throw off the natural balance of nature, even though it may appear to satisfy human subjectivity. In the end, it will cause death in nature. Too many deer will cause disease and death that was worse than the portion of the wolves.

When Adam and Eve were in paradise, before they chose the power to judge right and wrong or good and evil, they acted on impulse, in natural ways, that were integrated with perpetual creation; natural human nature. There was no right or wrong, because all impulse was natural. Afterwards they; humans, attempted to value judge reality, causing creation to become repressed and perverted.

Jesus taught the forgiveness of sins. This weakened the impact of law and Satan since it watered down the enforcements aspect law. Sin is not fully acknowledged, if there is no punishment. If you broke the speed limit and the officer let you go, there is no sin, since you were only given a warning without punishment. The idea was to return to natural impulse, where you do not make subjective value judgments. Rather learn to act on faith, like the animal; inner spirit. This allows the tree of life to become restored; natural human instinct.

To this I would just add that God must have intended humanities achieving moral awareness for nothing that happened in Eden was really outside Gods knowledge.

 

[sealchan]

When looking at the dead sea scrolls it is easy to see that words and meaning in the bible today have different meanings. And if we look at the bible of today, The part where they discuss homosexuality has been changed so it looks like it is ok when it was, in the beginning, clear that homosexual act was seen as a sin. Today the word sin has been removed because it is "evil" to call someone a sinner. So yes the scripture has been changed and lost its true meaning in many ways. And if I remember correctly it even says in the bible, You should not change even one word of the truth that was given in the teaching.

Like Yeshua to Jesus?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Like Yeshua to Jesus?

Yes, But that is probably mostly a translation done from greek over to English and to other languages to make it more easy to pronounce.