do Christians and Muslims believe Satan is a physical person or invisible being?

[Woodrow LI]

I can agree, but where were they awaiting this delay? You have iblis awaiting in paradise how about those who were given reprieve before him , were they awaiting in paradise as well?

To begin there is no mention of any before Iblis needing a reprive. He was the first to sin. Unlike in Christianity we do not believe Adam and Eve were cast out as a punishment. They and the Djinn were created as being mortal and it was always intended for them to live out their days on Earth. There is even indication the "Garden" was located on Earth. One reason because Adam was made from clay and I doubt their is any in Paradise as that seems to be a spiritual realm. Also the Earth was created long before Adam indicating that one day it would be used bor mankind.

 

[forth and five]

To begin there is no mention of any before Iblis needing a reprive. He was the first to sin. Unlike in Christianity we do not believe Adam and Eve were cast out as a punishment. They and the Djinn were created as being mortal and it was always intended for them to live out their days on Earth. There is even indication the "Garden" was located on Earth. One reason because Adam was made from clay and I doubt their is any in Paradise as that seems to be a spiritual realm. Also the Earth was created long before Adam indicating that one day it would be used bor mankind.

said, "Indeed, you are of those reprieved." 7:15

if he was of those reprieve, he was not the first to be reprieved.

if you believe the reprieve was that he could stay in paradise until they had raise, do you believe he is still under the reprieve, if so what kind of reprieve is it now since he is no longer in paradise?

 

[OneLife]

The Bible reveals Satan is a spirit and once a son of God, (Job 1:6,7)
He allowed pride and arrogance develop in his heart, just as humans can allow these bad traits to develop. (James 1:14,15)

Is Satan Jesus' brother?

 

[Desert Snake]

Perhaps a better question for the Judaism DIR? Isn't Xianity just a spin-off from Jewish Scriptures? Wouldn't they know more about ''Satan''?

/disciple

 

[Ingledsva]

The Bible reveals Satan to be an enemy of God and men. Here is how Jesus described him: "You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie." (John 8:44) I believe the Bible shows further that Satan will be destroyed in God's due time. (Hebrews 2:14)

Wow, another oldie.

Tanakh does not say Satan is evil, against God, or fallen.

Much later Christians, misinterpreting Tanakh texts, came up with that idea.

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[rusra02]

Wow, another oldie.

Tanakh does not say Satan is evil, against God, or fallen.

Much later Christians, misinterpreting Tanakh texts, came up with that idea.

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The Hebrew Scriptures do show Satan to be evil, as in the book of Job. Among other heinous crimes, Satan had Job's ten children murdered. This evil one is fully revealed when the Christ appeared, IMO. Many other truths hidden to prior generations were revealed by the Christ as well. (Colossians 2:3)

 

[rusra02]

Is Satan Jesus' brother?

He was once a faithful angel and at that time enjoyed peace with God and other Angels, including God's only-begotten Son. I am not aware of any scripture that directly calls Angels "brothers", but they were all Sons of God, so they may be termed brothers in that sense, I suppose. Once Satan sinned, he was no longer a son of God, but a condemned rebel. (Compare Deuteronomy 32:5)

 

[OneLife]

He was once a faithful angel and at that time enjoyed peace with God and other Angels, including God's only-begotten Son. I am not aware of any scripture that directly calls Angels "brothers", but they were all Sons of God, so they may be termed brothers in that sense, I suppose. Once Satan sinned, he was no longer a son of God, but a condemned rebel. (Compare Deuteronomy 32:5)

Thanks...

 

[Ingledsva]

The Hebrew Scriptures do show Satan to be evil, as in the book of Job. Among other heinous crimes, Satan had Job's ten children murdered. This evil one is fully revealed when the Christ appeared, IMO. Many other truths hidden to prior generations were revealed by the Christ as well. (Colossians 2:3)

We have had major discussions on Job.

YHVH points Job out to Satan (the Tester/Accuser/Adversary) - and asks if he has considered him.

YHVH is responsible for what happens in this story, and in fact the story SAYS YHVH is responsible.

Job 2:3 And said YHVH to Satan, PUT thy sights /consideration to/on my servant Job, for none like onto he exists on earth. A man pious, and upright, and reverent of Elohiym, and removed from evil, and he still clings to his integrity; although you incline me to test him and to take away from him without cause.


Job 42:11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that YHVH had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.

So obviously the writers of this story understood YHVH to be the instigator and reason for Job's suffering, and the death of his family.

 

[Ingledsva]

He was once a faithful angel and at that time enjoyed peace with God and other Angels, including God's only-begotten Son. I am not aware of any scripture that directly calls Angels "brothers", but they were all Sons of God, so they may be termed brothers in that sense, I suppose. Once Satan sinned, he was no longer a son of God, but a condemned rebel. (Compare Deuteronomy 32:5)

Where in the Bible are you getting this baloney?

Where does the Bible say Satan sinned?

What does Deu 32:5 which is Moses speaking to the people, - have to do with Satan?

Deu 32:5 They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation.

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[rusra02]

We have had major discussions on Job.

YHVH points Job out to Satan (the Tester/Accuser/Adversary) - and asks if he has considered him.

YHVH is responsible for what happens in this story, and in fact the story SAYS YHVH is responsible.

Job 2:3 And said YHVH to Satan, PUT thy sights /consideration to/on my servant Job, for none like onto he exists on earth. A man pious, and upright, and reverent of Elohiym, and removed from evil, and he still clings to his integrity; although you incline me to test him and to take away from him without cause.


Job 42:11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that YHVH had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.

So obviously the writers of this story understood YHVH to be the instigator and reason for Job's suffering, and the death of his family.

Not at all. Jehovah did permit Job's suffering but in no way caused it, as the book of Job shows clearly. Thus, a modern translation renders Job 42:11; "They sympathized with him and comforted him over all the calamity that Jehovah had allowed to come upon him. Each of them gave him a piece of money and a gold ring."

 

[Ingledsva]

We have had major discussions on Job.

YHVH points Job out to Satan (the Tester/Accuser/Adversary) - and asks if he has considered him.

YHVH is responsible for what happens in this story, and in fact the story SAYS YHVH is responsible.

Job 2:3 And said YHVH to Satan, PUT thy sights /consideration to/on my servant Job, for none like onto he exists on earth. A man pious, and upright, and reverent of Elohiym, and removed from evil, and he still clings to his integrity; although you incline me to test him and to take away from him without cause.


Job 42:11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that YHVH had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.

So obviously the writers of this story understood YHVH to be the instigator and reason for Job's suffering, and the death of his family.

Not at all. Jehovah did permit Job's suffering but in no way caused it, as the book of Job shows clearly. Thus, a modern translation renders Job 42:11; "They sympathized with him and comforted him over all the calamity that Jehovah had allowed to come upon him. Each of them gave him a piece of money and a gold ring."

Ahhh yes - the modern watering down of what the Bible actually says.

As you can see Satan has returned from his Job of testing - and YHVH tells him to test Job - and do anything - except Kill Job - thus his children are killed.

YHVH is responsible for everything happening in this story, - and the writers tells us so with the verse provided - # 11.

YHVH points him out - YHVH says what he is allowed to do - YHVH is totally responsible in this story.

In the Hebrew in verse 11, it specifically uses words meaning YHVH BROUGHT UPON/AGAINST.

Satan is not charged in this story.


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[rusra02]

Where in the Bible are you getting this baloney?

Where does the Bible say Satan sinned?

What does Deu 32:5 which is Moses speaking to the people, - have to do with Satan?

Deu 32:5 They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation.

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"The one who practices sin originates with the Devil, because the Devil has been sinning from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was made manifest, to break up the works of the Devil." (1 John 3:8)

 

[rusra02]

Ahhh yes - the modern watering down of what the Bible actually says.

As you can see Satan has returned from his Job of testing - and YHVH tells him to test Job - and do anything - except Kill Job - thus his children are killed.

YHVH is responsible for everything happening in this story, - and the writers tells us so with the verse provided - # 11.

YHVH points him out - YHVH says what he is allowed to do - YHVH is totally responsible in this story.

In the Hebrew in verse 11, it specifically uses words meaning YHVH BROUGHT UPON/AGAINST.

Satan is not charged in this story.


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To say that Satan was not responsible for Job's suffering is simply wrong, IMO. Yes, God permitted it, but he never causes wicked acts. Satan tried to break Job's integrity by causing him to suffer. "So Satan went out from the presence of Jehovah and struck Job with painful boils from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head." (Job 2:7) is it your position that Satan did not do this?

 

[Ingledsva]

"The one who practices sin originates with the Devil, because the Devil has been sinning from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was made manifest, to break up the works of the Devil." (1 John 3:8)

That is NT.

The people whom misunderstood/mistranslated Tanakh info about Satan.

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[Ingledsva]

Ahhh yes - the modern watering down of what the Bible actually says.

As you can see Satan has returned from his Job of testing - and YHVH tells him to test Job - and do anything - except Kill Job - thus his children are killed.

YHVH is responsible for everything happening in this story, - and the writers tells us so with the verse provided - # 11.

YHVH points him out - YHVH says what he is allowed to do - YHVH is totally responsible in this story.

In the Hebrew in verse 11, it specifically uses words meaning YHVH BROUGHT UPON/AGAINST.

Satan is not charged in this story.

To say that Satan was not responsible for Job's suffering is simply wrong, IMO. Yes, God permitted it, but he never causes wicked acts. Satan tried to break Job's integrity by causing him to suffer. "So Satan went out from the presence of Jehovah and struck Job with painful boils from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head." (Job 2:7) is it your position that Satan did not do this?

Baloney it's wrong.

The story states that YHVH points him out from the beginning.

YHVH also tells him he can do anything in this testing - except kill Job himself.

And the story writers wrote in the FACT that YHVH caused it ALL.

The writers of the story TELL US YHVH is responsible! SO - it doesn't matter that YOU think Satan is responsible in this story.

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[Desert Snake]

Ahhh yes - the modern watering down of what the Bible actually says.

As you can see Satan has returned from his Job of testing - and YHVH tells him to test Job - and do anything - except Kill Job - thus his children are killed.

YHVH is responsible for everything happening in this story, - and the writers tells us so with the verse provided - # 11.

YHVH points him out - YHVH says what he is allowed to do - YHVH is totally responsible in this story.

In the Hebrew in verse 11, it specifically uses words meaning YHVH BROUGHT UPON/AGAINST.

Satan is not charged in this story.


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What a benign Monster.

 

[Ingledsva]

Ahhh yes - the modern watering down of what the Bible actually says.

As you can see Satan has returned from his Job of testing - and YHVH tells him to test Job - and do anything - except Kill Job - thus his children are killed.

YHVH is responsible for everything happening in this story, - and the writers tells us so with the verse provided - # 11.

YHVH points him out - YHVH says what he is allowed to do - YHVH is totally responsible in this story.

In the Hebrew in verse 11, it specifically uses words meaning YHVH BROUGHT UPON/AGAINST.

Satan is not charged in this story.

What a benign Monster.

If YHVH creates a being to test people - YHVH is the Monster.

In the story it is YHVH that addresses Satan!

It is YHVH that tells him to put his attentions to Job!

It is YHVH that tells him to do anything in this test - except kill Job!

And the writers finish by straight out saying YHVH IS RESPONSIBLE!

Job 42:11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that YHVH had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.

I think the writers of the story know whom they are saying is the monster.

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[rusra02]

That is NT.

The people whom misunderstood/mistranslated Tanakh info about Satan.

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It's the Bible. It is God's Word. But aside from that, I think anyone who reads the book of Job without preconceived beliefs can determine who was responsible for Job's suffering.

 

[Ingledsva]

It's the Bible. It is God's Word. But aside from that, I think anyone who reads the book of Job without preconceived beliefs can determine who was responsible for Job's suffering.

Indeed if THEY ACTUALLY READ IT - they know it blames YHVH.

Job tells us multiple times that YHVH is responsible!

Job 19:22 Why do ye persecute me God, and are not satisfied with my flesh?

And YHVH tells us he did it.

Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

So - baloney - the whole story top to bottom blames YHVH - and has YHVH confirming that he did it!

Satan is only in the first 2 books setting up the story - YHVH is blamed over and over in the remaining 40 books!!!!

EDIT - See also #26 and #30, in Lucifer's Fall a Hoax.

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