Do Christians hate us

[ChristineES]

That is where the trouble lies. Most of us view it not as a book of "do's and don't's" but as a guide book. There are much more verses of love, encouragement, etc. than those verses about stoning people. It is also a book of tradition and stories(particularly the Tanankh, the Talmud, the Torah). It is not a rule book, by any means. I don't know of anyone who follows all those laws.

 

[psychoslice]

If we were not so conditioned by the bible, and we saw such Laws in another book that we were not conditioned to believe in as strong, what would we do with such a book, would we throw it away?

 

[payak]

what would happen if a present day world or religious leader wrote such things, Christians would be outraged and would be the first to complain.

 

[LuisDantas]

Maybe a good Christian is supposed to see beyond the letter of isolated verses?

It sure makes sense to me.

 

[LuisDantas]

what would happen if a present day world or religious leader wrote such things, Christians would be outraged and would be the first to complain.

That is perhaps a bit too speculative, don't you think?

 

[Darkness]

Woman with “familiar spirits” must be stoned to death. Leviticus 20:27
“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.” Exodus 22:18


You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13
Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20

Considering the New Testament is a positive critique of the Old Testament, I think we can just ignore these.

Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11

Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5

That tends to happen when you are in rebellion against the Roman Empire.

Don’t associate with non-Christians. Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 2 John 1:10

Shun those who disagree with your religious views. Romans 16:17

Things became really tense between the First Christians and the Judaists after Christ's crucifixion.

Paul, knowing that their faith would crumble if subjected to free and critical inquiry, tells his followers to avoid philosophy. Colossians 2:8

It appears that St. Paul is criticizing naturalism here.

Too lazy to finish off the rest. You get the point by now.

 

[payak]

so why no do as I suggested with the ot.

 

[payak]

That is perhaps a bit too speculative, don't you think?

not at all.

 

[psychoslice]

Maybe a good Christian is supposed to see beyond the letter of isolated verses?

It sure makes sense to me.

I agree, the letter killith, but I haven't meant any Christians who think that way, and I was a Christian for about 17 years.

 

[Quagmire]

Don't talk rubbish, I put the verses only,from the bible regardless of where they are found.

everything almost said and done in life is pieced together from other sources.

No rules broken, and you know it,

Actually, regardless of the content, the fact that you just cut
& pasted an ordered list from another website whole cloth, and without any of your own commentary, does indeed make it a rule 7 violation, so I wouldn't expect this thread to be here much longer.

Biblical Intolerance

LOL! "evilbible.com." , nah, no bias there.

 

[4consideration]

Actually, that's the very next verse, Exodus 22:21.

Correct. Taken together, Exodus 22:20-21 is as follows:

20“Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the Lord must be destroyed.d
21“Do not mistreat or oppress a foreigner, for you were foreigners in Egypt.

It's essentially one of the many contradictions in the bible that leaves me scratching my head, for how does one manage to avoid mistreating or oppressing someone while at the same time destroying them? I could be wrong, but I'm guessing that 'foreigners' in the one verse probably made up a good chunk of those who 'sacrificed to any god other than the Lord' in the other.

Actually, that is not what my Bible says.

I am using a Catholic Bible. The New American Bible, published in 1970. It's the only one I've ever owned, and still do.

Exodus 22:19 "Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed."

(IMO, it is not an instruction to DO anything to them.)

Exodus 22:20 "You shall not molest or oppress an alien, for you were once alien yourselves in the land of Egypt."

Exodus 22:21 "You shall not wrong any widow or orphan."

 

[4consideration]

No coincidence, many websites have it, do you think I scrolled through the Bible and found them myself.

And you thought you had an amazing discovery and caught me out and had exposed me,no need to prove it to me as you say,I know I stole the verses off a site,I know because I did it,was not attempting to hide it.

now back to the point,are you denying the Bible say's these things,or should I get one and prove to you the subject avoider that it does.

read my other posts on this thread before you get all defensive to,i am not anti Christian.

The burden of proof is on you to prove what "you" say about them to true, not for me to prove that something you copied off a website is either accurate, or inaccurate.

 

[Windwalker]

No coincidence, many websites have it, do you think I scrolled through the Bible and found them myself.

And you thought you had an amazing discovery and caught me out and had exposed me,no need to prove it to me as you say,I know I stole the verses off a site,I know because I did it,was not attempting to hide it.

now back to the point,are you denying the Bible say's these things,or should I get one and prove to you the subject avoider that it does.

read my other posts on this thread before you get all defensive to,i am not anti Christian.

Dude, I'm going to have to call you out here. I was in another thread with you, and you should know I have a profound respect for Buddhism. I'm personal friends with Tibetan Buddhist monks and nuns. I embrace many of it's teachings, and hold it in high regard in their attitudes towards others, towards, life, etc.

You strike me as a bitter ExChristian. Please take the Buddhist mask off and tell us why you choose to scrape crap off Evil Bible website? I very much am familiar with the whole ExChristian process, and you strike me in every way as one. That's not an issue, actually, as it's necessary for many to go through on a road to recovery from the abusive fundamentalist forms of the religion, but you could be honest about it. I wouldn't slight that.

 

[swamplizard]

Were any of the quotes listed attributed to Jesus?

best,
swampy

 

[4consideration]

you can tap dance around it all day,It absolutely positively does speak of killing numerous people.

Don't get angry at me,I never wrote it,It's in your Bible so get upset at the Bible.

If you know Christians that use the Bible to justify killing numerous people, you will need to ask them why they approach it that way and use the book in such a manner. I do not, nor do the various types of Christians that I know view it in that way.

I don't make a practice of attacking any group of people, or anyone's religion. I have a problem with people that do.

 

[gilligan8914]

History is an important thing. It reminds us of the mistakes that others made before us and reminds us that we also can make those same mistakes if we are too ignorant to learn from others that came before us. It is no secret that Christianity, Judaism, and Islam have been and still are the worlds most violent religions. Just look it up, the facts are not hiding anywhere. All claim to be religions of peace, yet all continue to be religions of war. Buddhists are not exempt from this label because they are now persecuting muslims in parts of asia. I do not know what happened to the beatitudes, some of the most profound teachings of Jesus. It has always been a mystery to me why Christians follow so many of Pauls teachings yet reject the peace and love your neighbor and your enemies, and turn the other cheek that Jesus proclaimed so honestly. Christians are like jews and muslims. If you don't see it their way then your wrong and they are right. And yes it seems Buddhists are now ignoring their own teachings in favor of violence. Belief in god has always been the open door to confrontation.

 

[MattersOfTheHeart]

Woman with “familiar spirits” must be stoned to death. Leviticus 20:27
“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.” Exodus 22:18


You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13
Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20

Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11

Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5

Don’t associate with non-Christians. Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 2 John 1:10

Shun those who disagree with your religious views. Romans 16:17

Paul, knowing that their faith would crumble if subjected to free and critical inquiry, tells his followers to avoid philosophy. Colossians 2:8

Whoever denies “that Jesus is the Christ” is a liar and an anti-Christ. 1 John 2:22

Christians are “of God;” everyone else is wicked. 1 John 5:19

The non-Christian is “a deceiver and an anti-Christ” 2 John 1:7

Anyone who doesn’t share Paul’s beliefs has “an evil heart.” Hebrews 3:12

False Jews are members of “the synagogue of Satan.” Revelations 2:9, 3:9

Everyone will have to worship Jesus -- whether they want to or not. Philippians 2:10

A Christian can not be accused of any wrongdoing. Romans 8:33

the last 2 are amusing

Most of these are rather ridiculous interpretations of those verses. In general, they are watered down, to say incorrectly, "we are to kill in all those cases", when in fact, in some cases, it just says "will surely die" and doesn't mention a commandment to kill.

If then, they are faulty in that sense, what good does it do to discuss further confusion.
I am not denying some of those verses talk about people dying, but those interpretations are made specifically to set up a child's target and attack.

 

[payak]

twist it turn it and shake it up until it comes out non violent if you must.

why disregard my post that looks favourably on the NT, the testament of Christians.

I thought jesus was anti everything in the old testament, hence the reason you have a new one.

my point is why still have the old testament, kind of goes against Christianity if common sense applied.

Their was something in those verses about giving your first born, how is that.

On the subject of killing, I believe their was a flood sent according to the old testament that killed everyone except for a dozen people, or am I wrong, perhaps God was sending them a little water for their crops.

wasn't every first born in Egypt killed, including the Egyptian Army, did widows have to marry their husbands brothers, does it not say a man who lies with a man who is not a woman should be put to death, it does say you should not permit a witch to live.

don't get upset at a person pointing something out you don't like, if it disgusts you to the point you must deny its words then why follow it.

I am not a former Christian with an ax to grind, just find that unlike muslims,jews and Buddhists Christians don't like questions about certain things, they get all *****.

It's confusing, the Bible says in one verse Heli is josephs father,in another its Jacob.

we die because of Adam and eves original sin, in another a man should not pay for his fathers sins.

The ot combined with the nt causes problems, extra stories added by emperor Constantine even more confusing, the Bible is all over the place with over 400 contradictions.

And that is a fact.

 

[Windwalker]

twist it turn it and shake it up until it comes out non violent if you must.

The OT is violent, the NT is not. Those verses people cite in the NT, such as those you lifted from the evilbible website, are really bad understandings of what is being said by Jesus. I'm quite open to criticizing and questing everything about the Bible and the NT as well, not taking anything at face value or in an act of faith. Hardly so. But in doing this, what I read on inflammatory sites such as evilbible, how they approach the texts, has equally as much fundamentalist agenda behind it putting on the blinders as the fundamentalist Christians do, in ignoring things.

There is a term for that and it is called, cherry picking. Twisting and turning is going on in the militant atheist camps equally as much as the religious fundamentalist camps. It's two sides of the exact same coin, neither truly interested in understanding beyond their assumptions.

why disregard my post that looks favourably on the NT, the testament of Christians.

I didn't see that. Could you point me to it?

I thought jesus was anti everything in the old testament, hence the reason you have a new one.

That's a poor misunderstanding of what Jesus was about, or early Christianity to put on point on it. I'll put it this way, what I see it was about is to try to get to the heart of what religion really is. It's not about this group or that group, it's not about rules and laws and traditions, but about the human heart in its desire to know God, or the Absolute, or Emptiness, or Ground of Being, or choose whatever term you wish. Religion in its forms can become a substitute for that, and as it does, it actually stands in the way of someone knowing God. To me, Jesus was about tearing down the religious structures that denied access to God, to get people to look within and find Truth in the heart.

But ironically, he then was turned into the same sort of religion his message was against! But it's simply what happens with people who find religion, but not God. You see it in Buddhism, you see it in all religions. Was the Buddha against Hinduism in your understanding?

my point is why still have the old testament, kind of goes against Christianity if common sense applied.

In practice most Christians don't use it. They use it as more just a lineage document, a sort of family history, but it's traditions are not followed.

What the OT is, is really more an historical artifact in their minds. And many, not all, also understand much of the NT that was as well. Not a literally, infallible document, but one that contains material of the time and is to be understood as such.

Their was something in those verses about giving your first born, how is that.

On the subject of killing, I believe their was a flood sent according to the old testament that killed everyone except for a dozen people, or am I wrong, perhaps God was sending them a little water for their crops.

Yes, these are all mythological ways of understanding the world back then. I see no reason to accept them as literal facts, or reflective of what God actually, literally does or did. It's how they understood it at the time.

The value in the stories in knowing how it expressed something existential within themselves, something in their own human heart in trying to relate to themselves in the world. And just as we thought as a child and understood as a child, that child evolved, matured, and still exists in us. Those stories are everyone's stories, because we came through the stage of being a child to being who we are today. So understanding as such, we can relate to it in ourselves and see a greater truth beyond that simple, literal perception through the child's eyes alone.

don't get upset at a person pointing something out you don't like, if it disgusts you to the point you must deny its words then why follow it.

I'm not upset about it, I'm disappointed that you don't have greater insight than this. But I suppose it doesn't matter what religion one is in, and I know this.

I am not a former Christian with an ax to grind, just find that unlike muslims,jews and Buddhists Christians don't like questions about certain things, they get all *****.

Actually, that comes to where people are at in their growth. There are plenty of Buddhist who are in the exact same camps. Are you sure you're not too?

It's confusing, the Bible says in one verse Heli is josephs father,in another its Jacob.

we die because of Adam and eves original sin, in another a man should not pay for his fathers sins.

The ot combined with the nt causes problems, extra stories added by emperor Constantine even more confusing, the Bible is all over the place with over 400 contradictions.

And that is a fact.

The problem I have is drawing these things from atheist sites is not about gaining understanding. It's about fault-finding for the fact of dismantling a religion they dislike for personal reasons, which they understand as poorly as the fundamentalist believers themselves do. The Sutra's suffer as much additions and alterations as the Bible does, yet this is not a reflection on the religion however.

 

[Astravalon]

Actually, that is not what my Bible says.

I am using a Catholic Bible. The New American Bible, published in 1970. It's the only one I've ever owned, and still do.

Exodus 22:19 "Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed."

(IMO, it is not an instruction to DO anything to them.)

Exodus 22:20 "You shall not molest or oppress an alien, for you were once alien yourselves in the land of Egypt."

Exodus 22:21 "You shall not wrong any widow or orphan."

Ah, that explains it. The numbering is different in the NAB. I recall noticing that with the Psalms in the one I have (I used to be Catholic).

This is where the original Hebrew for "destroyed"/"doomed" is helpful: Strong's Hebrew: 2763a. charam -- to ban, devote, exterminate

Clear as mud, I know ... which is why I don't bother taking any religious texts (not just the Christian ones) as gospel anymore. Makes life so much easier!
-

my point is why still have the old testament, kind of goes against Christianity if common sense applied.

To be fair, the New Testament is published and sold by itself, minus the Old, so one can obtain an OT-free bible if they want.