Do Muslim women believe that Islam protects women's rights more than other religions?

[YmirGF]

And that is the good news for those who want to protect Islaam's reputation, unfortunately.

I, at least, became far more of a hard-line critic once I did acquire some better knowledge. Much of it came from actual defenders and apologists of Islaam.

Same for me. It wasn't the anti-Muslim sites/people who convinced me that Islam is a theological house of cards, it was authentic Muslim sites and real Muslims who convinced me that it was.

 

[YmirGF]

Because I don't know everything about Islam to have a justifiable position to discuss this even in a devil's advocate position. From the brief readings I've seen of yours, you dislike Islam which is fine, but as the other Muslim respondent said, you guys are looking to argue not discuss.

I've watched @LuisDantas evolve his opinions about Islamic dogma over a period of years. He was quite an apologist in the beginning. Then as he learned more he began to understand clearly what is at stake. Also, I'm not so sure Luis dislikes Islam, per se, but it seems more of a case of being concerned about Islamic doctrine and being fearless about calling a shovel, a shovel.

 

[DavidFirth]

Do Muslim women believe that Islam protects women's rights more than other religions? If so why?

Before patient, the Muslim women must get permission from their husbands or fathers before they can post. Of course I wouldn't wait too long...

 

[Epic Beard Man]

And that is the good news for those who want to protect Islaam's reputation, unfortunately.

I, at least, became far more of a hard-line critic once I did acquire some better knowledge. Much of it came from actual defenders and apologists of Islaam.

Being a hard-line critic does not mean you have the intellectual capacity to understand the intricacies of religion to give an honest critique. Reading the entire Qur'an does not make one a scholar either. You have Arabic words and various meanings. Understanding the order to which the Qur'an was revealed and in what periods of time it relates to specific verses. Watching CNN or news outlets does not mean this represents Islam or that represents Islam.

 

[LuisDantas]

Because I don't know everything about Islam to have a justifiable position to discuss this even in a devil's advocate position.

Yet you just said (post #27 in this thread) that you could do that were you a believer. Maybe you reconsidered since then?

From the brief readings I've seen of yours, you dislike Islam which is fine, but as the other Muslim respondent said, you guys are looking to argue not discuss.

Now it is you who are being unfair towards me.

You can hardly blame me for the self-inflicted flaws of Islaam.

 

[LuisDantas]

Being a hard-line critic does not mean you have the intellectual capacity to understand the intricacies of religion to give an honest critique.

Definitely. No, it does not.

It does not mean that I do not have it, either. Much as many a Muslim and quite a few fellow kuffar dearly wish to believe otherwise.

Reading the entire Qur'an does not make one a scholar either. You have Arabic words and various meanings. Understanding the order to which the Qur'an was revealed and in what periods of time it relates to specific verses. Watching CNN or news outlets does not mean this represents Islam or that represents Islam.

True enough. Immaterial to the matter at hand, far as I can see, too.

 

[LuisDantas]

I've watch @LuisDantas evolve his opinions about Islamic dogma over a period of years. He was quite an apologist in the beginning. Then as he learned more he began to understand clearly what is at stake. Also, I'm not so sure Luis dislikes Islam, per se, but it seems more of a case of being concerned about Islamic doctrine and being fearless about calling a shovel, a shovel.

Oh, I dislike Islaam, make no mistake.

That does not mean that I reject Muslims or even that I am entitled to, of course.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

You may not class me as knowledgeable but at least I can question Islam without fear of being ostracised from the community. I wonder how many unknowledgeable Muslims approach their Imams on a regular basis to ask difficult and probing questions. If they did, they would be branded as troublemakers at the very least.

Do you have some better sites than the ones that I use and for which I provide links?

Don't ask me, perhaps you may want to ask the Muslims on this site or perhaps you may want to discuss with them your concerns with their faith I don't understand why is that so hard for you guys. You see one guy who doesn't jump on the "let's bash Islam train" then you guys want to ask me to defend Islam. I'm not Muslim and I cannot defend a faith/community to which I don't belong. Could I defend Islam? Yes but this isn't about Islam the thread highlights something specific so again any concerns regarding this faith and its adherents I leave that up to the Muslims here.

 

[LuisDantas]

Don't ask me, perhaps you may want to ask the Muslims on this site or perhaps you may want to discuss with them your concerns with their faith I don't understand why is that so hard for you guys.

Reading you feels a lot like reading myself five years ago or so.

You see one guy who doesn't jump on the "let's bash Islam train" then you guys want to ask me to defend Islam. I'm not Muslim and I cannot defend a faith/community to which I don't belong. Could I defend Islam? Yes but this isn't about Islam the thread highlights something specific so again any concerns regarding this faith and its adherents I leave that up to the Muslims here.

So did I. Then I learned.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Incorrect.eating hummus is part of our 'culture'.
As a Muslim I don't mind taking part in a discussion, but I don't take part in debates where people are just repeating the same things like a broken record. I can't speak for other Muslims on RF but I'm not here to convince people that 1.6 bilion Muslims aren't evil.
RF is not a courtroom , I'm not here to defend anything and I'm not guilty until proven innocent. I'll take part in a discussion if I think it's beneficial. If I don't think the discussion is useful, I waste my time by calling a random radio show so I can say my prepared piece on the superiority of hummus. And of course shout at anyone who dares to disagree with me while at the same time I refuse to go into a debate because it's part of our 'culture'.

Everyone needs to heed this post

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I've watch @LuisDantas evolve his opinions about Islamic dogma over a period of years. He was quite an apologist in the beginning. Then as he learned more he began to understand clearly what is at stake. Also, I'm not so sure Luis dislikes Islam, per se, but it seems more of a case of being concerned about Islamic doctrine and being fearless about calling a shovel, a shovel.

Not sure about Islam he is concerned about. I have more direct concern for Christians than I do Muslims.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Yet you just said (post #27 in this thread) that you could do that were you a believer. Maybe you reconsidered since then?



Now it is you who are being unfair towards me.

You can hardly blame me for the self-inflicted flaws of Islaam.

The question was asked if I was Muslim could I defend it, I said yes......I am not Muslim therefore I don't find it necessary to defend it because I have not encapsulated myself in its teachings. Could I defend Islamic philosophy as I've studied in college as it relates to certain Qur'anic teachings? Yes. But talking about the treatment of women as it relates to the Qur'an requires a discussion of Islamic Fiqh as well as Shari'ah which is a long drawn pout discussion. I'm sure you guys couldn't even discuss the various schools of thought and their ideas/rulings on specific actions in the community. That is why I leave that up to a more knowledgeable Muslim who may subscribe to a school of thought, and one who can discuss these matters. Perhaps with your concerns you need to speak with an Alim (Muslim scholar) as opposed to members on a discussion board. Often times there are Muslims by culture as opposed to religion who, may not adequately answer your question. It is easy to discuss Islam with Muslims who may just know enough of their religion while you cite various biased sources but the task would be a lot difficult if you discussed your concerns about Islam with an Alim.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Reading you feels a lot like reading myself five years ago or so.



So did I. Then I learned.

Well all religions are questionable and the adherents of those faiths are even more questionable it does not mean I shy away from learning nor do I display concern. Again, I have more concern of so-called Christians than I do Muslims. Maybe if I lived in a predominant Muslim society my attitude may or may not change but I don't.

 

[LuisDantas]

Well all religions are questionable and the adherents of those faiths are even more questionable it does not mean I shy away from learning nor do I display concern. Again, I have more concern of so-called Christians than I do Muslims. Maybe if I lived in a predominant Muslim society my attitude may or may not change but I don't.

One of the things I learned in the last couple of years is that, superficial appearances and prejudices aside, Islaam is not a religion. Not as I understand the word, anyway.

Admittedly, it is a terribly difficult word to define, and there is nothing resembling a consensus on the matter. Quite on the contrary.

But far as my personal criteria go, it is all-out misleading to call that doctrine a religion.

As an aside, it is even more misleading IMO to blame Muslims for what are ultimately the flaws of Islaam (as defined by the Qur'an) itself.

The question was asked if I was Muslim could I defend it, I said yes......I am not Muslim therefore I don't find it necessary to defend it because I have not encapsulated myself in its teachings.

I am sorry, but I can't help but see a measure of contradiction there.

How can you possibly be certain that you could defend Islaam while also claiming ignorance of what your arguments would be?

I can see hoping that you would have some arguments, some knowledge that could be used to present a case. But hoping is not knowing.

Could I defend Islamic philosophy as I've studied in college as it relates to certain Qur'anic teachings? Yes. But talking about the treatment of women as it relates to the Qur'an requires a discussion of Islamic Fiqh as well as Shari'ah which is a long drawn pout discussion. I'm sure you guys couldn't even discuss the various schools of thought and their ideas/rulings on specific actions in the community. That is why I leave that up to a more knowledgeable Muslim who may subscribe to a school of thought, and one who can discuss these matters. Perhaps with your concerns you need to speak with an Alim (Muslim scholar) as opposed to members on a discussion board. Often times there are Muslims by culture as opposed to religion who, may not adequately answer your question. It is easy to discuss Islam with Muslims who may just know enough of their religion while you cite various biased sources but the task would be a lot difficult if you discussed your concerns about Islam with an Alim.

Sure, it is always possible that such arguments may be presented.

It is also increasingly clear that in order to do so they will have to ignore or deny the Qur'an to some extent.

Which is certainly a good thing. But that can't really be done without denying the validity of Islaam, now can it?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

One of the things I learned in the last couple of years is that, superficial appearances and prejudices aside, Islaam is not a religion. Not as I understand the word, anyway.

Admittedly, it is a terribly difficult word to define, and there is nothing resembling a consensus on the matter. Quite on the contrary.

But far as my personal criteria go, it is all-out misleading to call that doctrine a religion.

As an aside, it is even more misleading IMO to blame Muslims for what are ultimately the flaws of Islaam (as defined by the Qur'an) itself.




I am sorry, but I can't help but see a measure of contradiction there.

How can you possibly be certain that you could defend Islaam while also claiming ignorance of what your arguments would be?

I can see hoping that you would have some arguments, some knowledge that could be used to present a case. But hoping is not knowing.




Sure, it is always possible that such arguments may be presented.

It is also increasingly clear that in order to do so they will have to ignore or deny the Qur'an to some extent.

Which is certainly a good thing. But that can't really be done without denying the validity of Islaam, now can it?

As it was asked of me was if I were Muslim iif I were able to defend Islam, I said yes. I don't understand where you got the impression that I would be willing to defend Islam. You then said in a later post insinuating that I should anyway and although and play devil's advocate and could defend it, that would detract from the core subject matter of the thread. I concede that I do not know everything on a scholarly level about Islam, which is why it would be inappropriate of me to attempt to defend it. I think we've gone on the deep end in this thread and have detracted away from the subject so I suggest if you want to debate this on a non-Muslim level to start your own thread.

 

[LuisDantas]

As it was asked of me was if I were Muslim iif I were able to defend Islam, I said yes.

That you did.

I don't understand where you got the impression that I would be willing to defend Islam.

The impression that I have is that you assume that you have not learned of somewhat valid, existing arguments for Islaam, while I strongly suspect that they do not actually exist.

You then said in a later post insinuating that I should anyway

I insinuated nothing. I stated that there is contradiction in your stance. You can't logically both claim ability to argue for Islaam and ignorance of any arguments to use for that end.

and although and play devil's advocate and could defend it, that would detract from the core subject matter of the thread. I concede that I do not know everything on a scholarly level about Islam, which is why it would be inappropriate of me to attempt to defend it. I think we've gone on the deep end in this thread and have detracted away from the subject so I suggest if you want to debate this on a non-Muslim level to start your own thread.

I beg to differ. The inherent contradictions of Islaam are inseparable from its recurrent failures.

 

[Curious George]

Do Muslim women believe that Islam protects women's rights more than other religions? If so why?

Not muslim, but I would say yes, at least more than some other religions.

The reason I say this is because many other religions existed prior to islam and yet we recognize that for the time period, islam gave many rights to women whoch they were denied in other religions. Therefore it stands to reason that Islam protects womens rights more than some other religions.

 

[Notanumber]

Not muslim, but I would say yes, at least more than some other religions.

The reason I say this is because many other religions existed prior to islam and yet we recognize that for the time period, islam gave many rights to women whoch they were denied in other religions. Therefore it stands to reason that Islam protects womens rights more than some other religions.

Have you read post #4?

We should be concerned about the present, not the past.

EDIT: Shafilea Ahmed murder: 'she told me what happened to her sister'

 

[Curious George]

Have you read post #4?

We should be concerned about the present, not the past.

I agree that the question used the word "protects" which speaks directly to the present. I am offering the past as evidence of the present. I am not speaking of the past willy-nilly here. Is it true that under other religious regimes womens rights were less than they were with islam? If so, then it stands to reason that those religions protect (present tense) womens rights less than islam. Just because people of a faith act differently or believe differently now does not mean that the religion itself protects any more or any less than it did when people believed as they did in the past when women were not protected (past tense).

 

[Notanumber]

I agree that the question used the word "protects" which speaks directly to the present. I am offering the past as evidence of the present. I am not speaking of the past willy-nilly here. Is it true that under other religious regimes womens rights were less than they were with islam? If so, then it stands to reason that those religions protect (present tense) womens rights less than islam. Just because people of a faith act differently or believe differently now does not mean that the religion itself protects any more or any less than it did when people believed as they did in the past when women were not protected (past tense).

I have edited my previous post to include another link as an example for what is happening today.

Fifty years ago we in the UK were arresting gays for being in love, but thankfully we are now more enlightened.