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Do people still believe everyone decended from Adam and Eve?

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Jesus was killed by crucifixion. Check, moderately well supported.

His disciples believed this. Oops, no reliable evidence for this. He failed at step two. But let's keep going.

He appeared to the disciples. Again no reliable evidence of this either. Failure at step three.

How is Paul's conversion evidence? Failure at step four.

What evidence for the conversion of James exists? Why was he a skeptic? Perhaps because he knew who Jesus was. Sorry, but this is at best a nothing burger. Another failure.

What empty tomb? There is no evidence for a tomb empty or not. That is another failure.

Who are these supposed historians that he relies on? Your source is an epic failure.

Paul was humble. He didn't brag about his mistakes. Paul talked about matters like Gentiles being under the law and didn't express a legalistic view on either side. He was moderate in his beliefs.

The Historical Case for Paul’s Apostleship: And a Critique of Muslim Arguments

Many Muslim critics assert that the Apostle Paul was not a true Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ. They erroneously argue that Paul came in after the real Apostles and took over the scene corrupting Christianity with new foreign teachings. Many Muslims assert that the original message of Jesus and his true followers, their supposed Islamic teaching, was in complete disagreement with Paul’s “new” theology. In contrast to this modern Islamic view the Christian position is that history demonstrates Paul was truly converted to Christianity. Christians argue that the evidence shows he was accepted by the original Apostles and by the earliest Christians as a genuine convert with sound theology who was given an important mission from Christ himself.

In this article I will weigh the evidence that both sides offer. When investigating historical issues it is important to use a reliable method to come to truth. I will be appealing to what is known as the historical method in this article as I argue that there are many strong reasons to affirm Paul’s apostleship and no strong reasons to deny Paul’s apostleship. I will utilize historical principles including the concept of multiple independent attestation, early accounts (i.e., the oldest source material), eyewitness testimony, disinterest statements, and the criterion of embarrassment. It is also important to speak to the lack of early reliable evidence for the modern Muslim view concerning Paul. Lastly I will demonstrate that the modern Islamic polemic against Paul is not consistent with many early Muslim traditions which affirm that Paul was in fact viewed as a true Apostle. I believe that Muslims are forced to reject Paul and blame him in trying to explain why their Quran affirms Christian Scriptures(1) and yet teaches that Christianity has false teachings. To the Muslim Paul corrupting Christianity serves as reconciliation to this problem. However, we will see that their rejection of Paul and their accusations are completely erroneous.

Section 1. Positive Historical Case for Paul’s Apostleship
When historians use the historical method they will consult the earliest sources regarding the historical issue in question. The earliest sources pertaining to Paul are the 1st century documents that were canonized into the Bible in the 4th century. The Bible is not one source - it is a compiled collection of many separate documents written over a span of about 1400 years. The 1st century texts that were canonized into the New Testament have much to say concerning the Apostle Paul and are thus very important to our study. Some Muslims may object and assert that one can not use the Bible to prove Paul. However, such a surface level objection is based on ignorance since, again, the New Testament is a collection of valuable early historical documents, many of which speak directly to this issue. To discard the 1stcentury documents that are in the Bible and not include them in our study would be to neglect the earliest sources we have concerning this issue. That method would essentially be to irresponsibly throw away important data, which no serious historian or researcher would ever do. If historical sources don’t count then we can’t know anything about history.

1st Century Biblical Sources

With respect to the 1st century Biblical evidence concerning Paul we have Paul’s writings (Romans; 1 & 2 Corinthians; Galatians; Ephesians; Philippians; Colossians; 1 & 2 Thessalonians; 1 & 2 Timothy; Titus; and Philemon), the history of the 1st century church known as “Acts” or “Acts of the Apostles,” and a Christian epistle known as 2 Peter. So, with respect to 1st century Biblical writings we have Paul’s epistles as well as two other independent documents to work with. All of the 1st century Biblical sources that mention Paul affirm that Paul was a genuine Apostle. None of them question that.

All through out the book of Acts we see Paul identified as a true Apostle. And so we could quote numerous passages affirming this from Acts. However, one striking feature is that in the Acts 15 Jerusalem Council Paul played a leading role with the other Apostles such as James and Peter in answering the question about Gentiles being under the law. As the council was in session we see the following:

“And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles.” (Acts 15:12)

Paul and Barnabas spoke after Peter (vv. 7-11) and right before James (vv. 13-21) who concluded the council and gave the final decision that Gentiles are not under the law. This demonstrates that there was 1st century recognition of Paul’s acceptance by the early church and by the Apostles themselves as an authoritative voice.

The book 2 Peter is rejected by many liberal scholars and Muslims but there is a strong case for its authority and for Petrine authorship.(2) This text is another 1st century source that not only affirms that Paul was a true Apostle, but it also identifies Paul’s writings as Scripture:

"15And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures." (2 Peter 3:15-16)

The best case scenario is that Peter wrote this and is accepting Paul. I believe this is the case. The worst case scenario is that this is another independent 1st century attestation affirming the reliability of Paul which we can add to the list. Even if it were not from Peter, it is still an early attestation which was accepted by the church and even added to the Canon of Scripture. Historians look for the earliest 1st century writings when it comes to Jesus and early Christianity. That there are no early 1st century writings asserting that Paul was a false Apostle discredits the Muslim position severely. The historical principles of early sources and multiple independent attestation is thus met with respect to 1st century Biblical evidence for Paul.

If Paul was a true Apostle we would expect his own letters to confirm that this was so. It must be asked: is there anything in Paul’s writings that historians would accept as proving that he was genuine? There are many things to consider. For example it is important to consider the principle of embarrassment which is the principle that something or someone is more likely to be authentic if there are embarrassing themes that you wouldn’t expect to be openly talked about. We see that Paul was quite open about his shortcomings, disputes with other Apostles, and his flaws. Such things persuade historians of Paul’s integrity and honesty, and thus his claims to apostleship gain credibility.

Paul was open about his humanity and imperfection

"8Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ 9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith-- 10that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead. 12Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own." (Philippians 3:8-12)

"12And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; 13Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 15This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 16Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting." (1 Timothy 1:12-16)

"7So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. 8Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. 9But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me." (2 Corinthians 12:7-9)

This information meets the principle of embarrassment which historians look for. Christ and the Apostles had a very high view of holiness or sanctification(3) and so therefore we wouldn’t expect Paul to admit his imperfection and need for grace if he was an imposter trying to usurp or lead people away from the moral teachers Jesus and the Apostles. It is a human tendency to want to appear morally good in religious settings. This is especially true of those times. Although Paul was a sanctified model for morality and exhorted others to be moral, he was honest in admitting that he, like everyone else except Christ, was not perfect and that he, like everyone else, relied on God’s grace in his life. We know from history that later untrustworthy people who claimed to follow Christ, such as Pelagius, dishonestly claimed to be completely morally perfect(4). One would naturally expect something like this from Paul if he was trying to usurp Jesus and the Apostles who taught holiness and sanctification. But Paul, being genuine, admitted his imperfection, as did the other Prophets and Apostles either explicitly or implicitly(5), and taught that one ought to strive for holiness in light of being imperfect. In being honest about his imperfection and his reliance on God’s grace Paul was in fact doing the right thing according to Jesus’ teachings on salvation.(6) Hence, this kind of material demonstrates that Paul was genuine since if he was not then there would be no reason to include these types of admissions in his epistles – admissions that critics may twist or use against Paul.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Jesus was killed by crucifixion. Check, moderately well supported.

His disciples believed this. Oops, no reliable evidence for this. He failed at step two. But let's keep going.

He appeared to the disciples. Again no reliable evidence of this either. Failure at step three.

How is Paul's conversion evidence? Failure at step four.

What evidence for the conversion of James exists? Why was he a skeptic? Perhaps because he knew who Jesus was. Sorry, but this is at best a nothing burger. Another failure.

What empty tomb? There is no evidence for a tomb empty or not. That is another failure.

Who are these supposed historians that he relies on? Your source is an epic failure.

Those facts appear to point convincingly toward the verdict that Jesus returned from the dead and thus authenticated his claim to being the unique Son of God. But what happens when these facts are subjected to cross-examination? The resurrection is more historic reality than wishful thinking. The crucifixion of Jesus was as solid as anything in ancient history. The Bible says that Jesus was killed by crucifixion, but on the contrary, Muslims believe Jesus never really died on the cross. The Quran seems to have two possibilities: either someone was made to look like Jesus and the Romans killed that person, or Jesus was on the cross but Allah made it appear he died when he really didn't. They put him in a tomb. Allah healed him, and he was taken to heaven. Anything is possible with God, but where does the evidence point? In other words, the question does not concern what God can do, but what God did. And the Quran is not a very credible source when it comes to Jesus. The Quran provides a test for people to verify its divine origin: gather the wisest people in the world and call upon the jinn, which are similar to demons but without necessarily all the negative connotations, and try to write a surah, or chapter, that's as good as one in the Quran. The implication, of course, is that this can't be done.

It can be done rather easily. One person who speaks Arabic wrote what he calls the True Furqan, in which he maintains the style of the Quran in Arabic but with a message that's more Christian than Islamic. Some Muslims heard portions of it read and were convinced that it was the Quran. One scholar in Arabic dialects told me that some of the classical Arabic in the True Furqan was much more beautiful than anything he had read in the Quran. So I guess the test has been passed.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Paul was humble. He didn't brag about his mistakes. Paul talked about matters like Gentiles being under the law and didn't express a legalistic view on either side. He was moderate in his beliefs.

The Historical Case for Paul’s Apostleship: And a Critique of Muslim Arguments



"7So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. 8Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. 9But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me." (2 Corinthians 12:7-9)

This information meets the principle of embarrassment which historians look for. Christ and the Apostles had a very high view of holiness or sanctification(3) and so therefore we wouldn’t expect Paul to admit his imperfection and need for grace if he was an imposter trying to usurp or lead people away from the moral teachers Jesus and the Apostles. It is a human tendency to want to appear morally good in religious settings. This is especially true of those times. Although Paul was a sanctified model for morality and exhorted others to be moral, he was honest in admitting that he, like everyone else except Christ, was not perfect and that he, like everyone else, relied on God’s grace in his life. We know from history that later untrustworthy people who claimed to follow Christ, such as Pelagius, dishonestly claimed to be completely morally perfect(4). One would naturally expect something like this from Paul if he was trying to usurp Jesus and the Apostles who taught holiness and sanctification. But Paul, being genuine, admitted his imperfection, as did the other Prophets and Apostles either explicitly or implicitly(5), and taught that one ought to strive for holiness in light of being imperfect. In being honest about his imperfection and his reliance on God’s grace Paul was in fact doing the right thing according to Jesus’ teachings on salvation.(6) Hence, this kind of material demonstrates that Paul was genuine since if he was not then there would be no reason to include these types of admissions in his epistles – admissions that critics may twist or use against Paul.
Paul was not a moderate. Any source that claims that is far from reliable. At least the character in the Bible was not a moderate. Read your Bible.

And don't listen to what lying sources tell you to believe.

By the way you have yet to answer about Exodus 34
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Paul was not a moderate. Any source that claims that is far from reliable. At least the character in the Bible was not a moderate. Read your Bible.

And don't listen to what lying sources tell you to believe.

By the way you have yet to answer about Exodus 34

Paul was a moderate. He didn't agree with the Judaizers. He didn't preach that to be a Christian you have to follow both the old and new covenant.

Exodus 34 is a reference to the ark of the covenant. Graven images are references to images that were used in polytheistic religions that existed at the time of the Old Testament.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Those facts appear to point convincingly toward the verdict that Jesus returned from the dead and thus authenticated his claim to being the unique Son of God. But what happens when these facts are subjected to cross-examination? The resurrection is more historic reality than wishful thinking. The crucifixion of Jesus was as solid as anything in ancient history. The Bible says that Jesus was killed by crucifixion, but on the contrary, Muslims believe Jesus never really died on the cross. The Quran seems to have two possibilities: either someone was made to look like Jesus and the Romans killed that person, or Jesus was on the cross but Allah made it appear he died when he really didn't. They put him in a tomb. Allah healed him, and he was taken to heaven. Anything is possible with God, but where does the evidence point? In other words, the question does not concern what God can do, but what God did. And the Quran is not a very credible source when it comes to Jesus. The Quran provides a test for people to verify its divine origin: gather the wisest people in the world and call upon the jinn, which are similar to demons but without necessarily all the negative connotations, and try to write a surah, or chapter, that's as good as one in the Quran. The implication, of course, is that this can't be done.

It can be done rather easily. One person who speaks Arabic wrote what he calls the True Furqan, in which he maintains the style of the Quran in Arabic but with a message that's more Christian than Islamic. Some Muslims heard portions of it read and were convinced that it was the Quran. One scholar in Arabic dialects told me that some of the classical Arabic in the True Furqan was much more beautiful than anything he had read in the Quran. So I guess the test has been passed.
Wait, only one of those claims had any half way decent evidence for them. The rest were unsupported. How is the fact that Jesus was crucified evidence that he was resurrected? The rest of your claims were denied.

You need to pay attention. I do not care what Muslims say. I really do not care what Christian apologists say. I only care what evidence can be found for your beliefs and you do not seem to be able to provide any.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Paul was a moderate. He didn't agree with the Judaizers. He didn't preach that to be a Christian you have to follow both the old and new covenant.

Exodus 34 is a reference to the ark of the covenant. Graven images are references to images that were used in polytheistic religions that existed at the time of the Old Testament.
No, Exodus 34 gives a list of the Ten Commandments. You either did not read it or did not understand it. Now I can see your confusion. The Ark of the Covenant still broke the "graven image" commandment, I guess that misled me a bit. Here are the Ten Commandments in Exodus 34:

"14 Do not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

15 “Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land; for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to them, they will invite you and you will eat their sacrifices. 16 And when you choose some of their daughters as wives for your sons and those daughters prostitute themselves to their gods, they will lead your sons to do the same.

17 “Do not make any idols.

18 “Celebrate the Festival of Unleavened Bread. For seven days eat bread made without yeast, as I commanded you. Do this at the appointed time in the month of Aviv, for in that month you came out of Egypt.

19 “The first offspring of every womb belongs to me, including all the firstborn males of your livestock, whether from herd or flock. 20 Redeem the firstborn donkey with a lamb, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck. Redeem all your firstborn sons.

“No one is to appear before me empty-handed.

21 “Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even during the plowing season and harvest you must rest.

22 “Celebrate the Festival of Weeks with the firstfruits of the wheat harvest, and the Festival of Ingathering at the turn of the year. 23 Three times a year all your men are to appear before the Sovereign Lord, the God of Israel. 24 I will drive out nations before you and enlarge your territory, and no one will covet your land when you go up three times each year to appear before the Lord your God.

25 “Do not offer the blood of a sacrifice to me along with anything containing yeast, and do not let any of the sacrifice from the Passover Festival remain until morning.

26 “Bring the best of the firstfruits of your soil to the house of the Lord your God.

“Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk."

Confirmed in the very next passage:

"27 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” 28 Moses was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments."
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Wait, only one of those claims had any half way decent evidence for them. The rest were unsupported. How is the fact that Jesus was crucified evidence that he was resurrected? The rest of your claims were denied.

You need to pay attention. I do not care what Muslims say. I really do not care what Christian apologists say. I only care what evidence can be found for your beliefs and you do not seem to be able to provide any.

No historian would ever place the Quran as a more credible source on Jesus over the New Testament, which has four biographies and other writings dated shortly after Jesus and which contains eyewitness testimony. In historical Jesus studies, I don't know of a single scholar who consults the Quran as a source on the historical Jesus.

Osiris doesn't come back to this world; he's given the status of god of the netherworld-a gloomy, shadowy, place of semiconciousness. This isn't a resurrection, it's a zombification. This is no parallel to the resurrection of Christ, for which there is strong historical support.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
No, Exodus 34 gives a list of the Ten Commandments. You either did not read it or did not understand it. Now I can see your confusion. The Ark of the Covenant still broke the "graven image" commandment, I guess that misled me a bit. Here are the Ten Commandments in Exodus 34:

"14 Do not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

15 “Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land; for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to them, they will invite you and you will eat their sacrifices. 16 And when you choose some of their daughters as wives for your sons and those daughters prostitute themselves to their gods, they will lead your sons to do the same.

17 “Do not make any idols.

18 “Celebrate the Festival of Unleavened Bread. For seven days eat bread made without yeast, as I commanded you. Do this at the appointed time in the month of Aviv, for in that month you came out of Egypt.

19 “The first offspring of every womb belongs to me, including all the firstborn males of your livestock, whether from herd or flock. 20 Redeem the firstborn donkey with a lamb, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck. Redeem all your firstborn sons.

“No one is to appear before me empty-handed.

21 “Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even during the plowing season and harvest you must rest.

22 “Celebrate the Festival of Weeks with the firstfruits of the wheat harvest, and the Festival of Ingathering at the turn of the year. 23 Three times a year all your men are to appear before the Sovereign Lord, the God of Israel. 24 I will drive out nations before you and enlarge your territory, and no one will covet your land when you go up three times each year to appear before the Lord your God.

25 “Do not offer the blood of a sacrifice to me along with anything containing yeast, and do not let any of the sacrifice from the Passover Festival remain until morning.

26 “Bring the best of the firstfruits of your soil to the house of the Lord your God.

“Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk."

Confirmed in the very next passage:

"27 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” 28 Moses was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments."

Graven images is a reference to physical idols that people worship. There is no inconsistency between not worshiping idols, and the Ark of the Covenant.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Jesus was killed by crucifixion. Check, moderately well supported.

His disciples believed this. Oops, no reliable evidence for this. He failed at step two. But let's keep going.

He appeared to the disciples. Again no reliable evidence of this either. Failure at step three.

How is Paul's conversion evidence? Failure at step four.

What evidence for the conversion of James exists? Why was he a skeptic? Perhaps because he knew who Jesus was. Sorry, but this is at best a nothing burger. Another failure.

What empty tomb? There is no evidence for a tomb empty or not. That is another failure.

Who are these supposed historians that he relies on? Your source is an epic failure.

There were not only multiple appearances to individuals, but there are at least three appearances to groups of people. And a group of people isn't going to all hallucinate the same thing at the same time.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Jesus was killed by crucifixion. Check, moderately well supported.

His disciples believed this. Oops, no reliable evidence for this. He failed at step two. But let's keep going.

He appeared to the disciples. Again no reliable evidence of this either. Failure at step three.

How is Paul's conversion evidence? Failure at step four.

What evidence for the conversion of James exists? Why was he a skeptic? Perhaps because he knew who Jesus was. Sorry, but this is at best a nothing burger. Another failure.

What empty tomb? There is no evidence for a tomb empty or not. That is another failure.

Who are these supposed historians that he relies on? Your source is an epic failure.

Why would seeing Jesus on the road to Damascus be merely a "revelation" induced by Paul's guilt over persecuting Christians? It's not a very good historical hypothesis. At best it can only account for Paul's belief that he had seen the risen Jesus. It doesn't account for the conversion of the skeptic James, and it doesn't account for the empty tomb. And it doesn't explain the beliefs of the disciples that they had seen the risen Jesus. You've got to account for what changed them to the point where they were willing to suffer continuously and even die for their beliefs that they had seen the risen Jesus. So it's a bad historical hypothesis. Paul himself is crystal clear about why he converted: he says he saw the risen Jesus. So we have his eyewitness testimony of what happened.

Paul's writings don't indicate that he converted because he felt guilty or that he secretly admired Christians or that he had a disdain for his fellow Pharisees. This is pure conjecture and speculation and reading things into the text that simply aren't there.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Why would seeing Jesus on the road to Damascus be merely a "revelation" induced by Paul's guilt over persecuting Christians? It's not a very good historical hypothesis. At best it can only account for Paul's belief that he had seen the risen Jesus. It doesn't account for the conversion of the skeptic James, and it doesn't account for the empty tomb. And it doesn't explain the beliefs of the disciples that they had seen the risen Jesus. You've got to account for what changed them to the point where they were willing to suffer continuously and even die for their beliefs that they had seen the risen Jesus. So it's a bad historical hypothesis. Paul himself is crystal clear about why he converted: he says he saw the risen Jesus. So we have his eyewitness testimony of what happened.

Paul's writings don't indicate that he converted because he felt guilty or that he secretly admired Christians or that he had a disdain for his fellow Pharisees. This is pure conjecture and speculation and reading things into the text that simply aren't there.

Paul is not exactly reliable. Tell me, what was he doing on the road to Damascus?

And how do you know that James was a skeptic or that he converted?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
And what is that absurd snake- story?
Someone sure was lying.
The traditional story is that Paul was on his way to Damascus to arrest Christians. The problem was that Damascus was not part of Judea. And the government was not friendly to Judea. How could he have arrested people out of his jurisdiction in an unfriendly country that would not have agreed to their kidnapping.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
The traditional story is that Paul was on his way to Damascus to arrest Christians. The problem was that Damascus was not part of Judea. And the government was not friendly to Judea. How could he have arrested people out of his jurisdiction in an unfriendly country that would not have agreed to their kidnapping.

Basically a phony hijacked the faith and
others hijacked from him.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Incorrect. But then you probably do not understand the concept of evidence. Would you like to learn? There is no scientific evidence for the creation myths. There is endless evidence for evolution. Judges have to understand evidence as part of their job. They can see that their is no evidence for your beliefs which is why even conservative judges rule against putting the myths of creation in schools.

I believe scientific evidence is a special kind of evidence and evolution lacks it as Does the Bible. The Bible gives us evidence of what God say and He nows all things. That is better than the evidence for evolution which is very partial evidence at best.

I believe judges don't always act correctly. They are sinners like everyone else.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Then why do you read the Bible? It is clearly made up. Once again, evolution is based upon evidence. Your beliefs are based upon mere claims.

I believe people say things are clear when they can't prove them. I believe the Bible has proven its veracity over and over.
 
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