Do people think about God?

[cablescavenger]

there is plenty of evidence but you do not accept it.

Accept it? I read your whole post and saw no evidence just a rant.


Belief in a deity is called faith for a reason. It is not meant to be passed off as fact.

If you want to pass it off as fact then you need to provide more than hollow rhetoric.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Lucky for me, the God I believe in is independent of Pascals silly wager.

 

[cablescavenger]

The Bible is a complete history book and scientific book.

I see, so am I correct in thinking the earth is flat with a dome firmament called the heavens, giants do exist, and God (one of the earths most fearsome mass murderers), controls the weather while sitting on a cloud?

 

[Penumbra]

The facts are if a Bible and God believer is wrong then we die and there is nothing to worry or be concerned about.

Or another god gets mad at you for believing in the Bible god.

Or you get reincarnated for not properly learning the lessons of some real "correct" religion.

Basically, this argument is derived from an ethnocentric viewpoint.

But is they are right then alot of people will perish.Do they ever think about that?
Are you ever concerned that maybe it is true regardless what people have taught?
Do people think about that not believing offers more problems if your theory is wrong than your latter?

Apart from viewing such things as repeated mythologies throughout human history, and expressions of the worst parts of humanity, vengeful, wrathful, malevolent deities are in my view not worth following even if they were real.

Does anyone reconize that since the great fall of Gods influence in America by taking him out of everything and pushing theories upon people has resulted in the wave of immoral and unvirtues people than before?

You mean when slavery ended, women were given the right to vote, and people of darker skin tones began to be viewed as equal persons to Caucasians?

Where do you propose the peak of American ethics was?

 

[McBell]

They can christian it is just a title.I believe different than them and they do not stay true to the Bible.The biggest theme in the Bible is faith and trust in the Lord!

Thank you for proving my point.

I wonder if you are going to even attempt to support your claims or if you think your merely saying it makes it fact...


I shan't be holding my breath.

 

[EnochSDP]

Or another god gets mad at you for believing in the Bible god.

Or you get reincarnated for not properly learning the lessons of some real "correct" religion.

Basically, this argument is derived from an ethnocentric viewpoint.

Apart from viewing such things as repeated mythologies throughout human history, and expressions of the worst parts of humanity, vengeful, wrathful, malevolent deities are in my view not worth following even if they were real.

You mean when slavery ended, women were given the right to vote, and people of darker skin tones began to be viewed as equal persons to Caucasians?

Where do you propose the peak of American ethics was?

America began really before Columbus but when England cam here they were getting away from British power and influence to be what they wanted and thats what America was founded on.Christianity.So are you saying the foundation of this land was morally wrong or the ideas of the everyday person who really built this land not Wasington DC, they are wrong?Some white group claiming superior to a colored man is not my fault or concern it is wrong and no place is for it.Racism and slavery is wrong and in no part in the Bible supports it.It is tolerated and understood because that was the culture of the time, The Bible did not make the culture nor supported slavery.
So again America has risn to power by wealth and technology and military in what age?the age of the christian!and that age in america is coming to a end because of people wanting to refuse God.As the people in the Bible defied God and were judged so will we.Food shortage is coming,loss in wealth has begun,our military mite is not half of chinas.We are on a downward spirial and it started after 1900.That is when a great liberation of God started to begin fully.And since then america has been at war and our decline has begun.We are the start of it.

 

[Penumbra]

America began really before Columbus but when England cam here they were getting away from British power and influence to be what they wanted and thats what America was founded on.Christianity.So are you saying the foundation of this land was morally wrong or the ideas of the everyday person who really built this land not Wasington DC, they are wrong?Some white group claiming superior to a colored man is not my fault or concern it is wrong and no place is for it.Racism and slavery is wrong and in no part in the Bible supports it.It is tolerated and understood because that was the culture of the time, The Bible did not make the culture nor supported slavery.
So again America has risn to power by wealth and technology and military in what age?the age of the christian!and that age in america is coming to a end because of people wanting to refuse God.As the people in the Bible defied God and were judged so will we.Food shortage is coming,loss in wealth has begun,our military mite is not half of chinas.We are on a downward spirial and it started after 1900.That is when a great liberation of God started to begin fully.And since then america has been at war and our decline has begun.We are the start of it.

I think your argument is stuck between a rock and a hard place here.

First, if you want to go with the proposal that the U.S. was founded as a Christian nation, you have several difficult issues to work through. Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence, once created his own version of the Bible that stripped the miracles out of it. In 1796, president John Adams submitted to the Senate the Treaty of Tripoli, and it was ratified by the Senate. Part of it reads:

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

Plus, there's the whole first amendment which separates church and state.

Pretty clear there. Founders were made up of Christians as well as Unitarians and Deists.


However, suppose I were even to grant you that it was founded as a Christian nation, which is not the case, then you have to reconcile this notion with the widespread slavery, endorsed by the founding fathers in varying degrees and upheld in law. Plus violence against the native Americans. And women without the right to vote.

So prior to 1900 was the peak of American ethics? When people of dark skin tone had little rights, when women couldn't vote?


Hence, rock and a hard place. You can defy evidence and argue that America was founded as a Christian nation, which included widespread slavery, sexism, and violence against natives, upheld in law and commonly accepted, or you can distance Christianity from those founding "virtues" and relinquish what has been a very poorly defended argument that somehow immorality is associated with "taking (god) out of everything".

And some of these are just factually inaccurate, like America's military power being half of China's. China is up-and-coming, but their military is nowhere near the military of the U.S. just yet.

Also, you're reference of "So again America has risn to power by wealth and technology and military in what age?the age of the christian!" is interesting. Associating wealth and military might with Christianity. So much for turning the other cheek or camels and eyes of needles in a "Christian" nation.

 

[EnochSDP]

I think your argument is stuck between a rock and a hard place here.

First, if you want to go with the proposal that the U.S. was founded as a Christian nation, you have several difficult issues to work through. Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence, once created his own version of the Bible that stripped the miracles out of it. In 1796, president John Adams submitted to the Senate the Treaty of Tripoli, and it was ratified by the Senate. Part of it reads:

Plus, there's the whole first amendment which separates church and state.

Pretty clear there. Founders were made up of Christians as well as Unitarians and Deists.


However, suppose I were even to grant you that it was founded as a Christian nation, which is not the case, then you have to reconcile this notion with the widespread slavery, endorsed by the founding fathers in varying degrees and upheld in law. Plus violence against the native Americans. And women without the right to vote.

So prior to 1900 was the peak of American ethics? When people of dark skin tone had little rights, when women couldn't vote?


Hence, rock and a hard place. You can defy evidence and argue that America was founded as a Christian nation, which included widespread slavery, sexism, and violence against natives, upheld in law and commonly accepted, or you can distance Christianity from those founding "virtues" and relinquish what has been a very poorly defended argument that somehow immorality is associated with "taking (god) out of everything".

And some of these are just factually inaccurate, like America's military power being half of China's. China is up-and-coming, but their military is nowhere near the military of the U.S. just yet.

Also, you're reference of "So again America has risn to power by wealth and technology and military in what age?the age of the christian!" is interesting. Associating wealth and military might with Christianity. So much for turning the other cheek or camels and eyes of needles in a "Christian" nation.

You assume I agree or was talking about our politians and our founding fathers they esp where related to the british crown and in fact still have blood ties to the crown.Im talking about every Joe smoe that built this country.Probably your mother and father and mine.People who make upon the population.Though there are laws the average person goes his own way and believes his own belief and im saying our hayday as a nation and our strength has comed from God and we still have it but we are losing it because we are turning from God faster and faster.Our prosperity is diminishing.Chinas man power alone is far greater and with Russia gives them all they need to war with us.China is advanced.

 

[Penumbra]

You assume I agree or was talking about our politians and our founding fathers they esp where related to the british crown and in fact still have blood ties to the crown.Im talking about every Joe smoe that built this country.Probably your mother and father and mine.People who make upon the population.Though there are laws the average person goes his own way and believes his own belief and im saying our hayday as a nation and our strength has comed from God and we still have it but we are losing it because we are turning from God faster and faster.Our prosperity is diminishing.

Nice way to dodge any and all arguments.

The joe smoe that had slaves, supported slavery, went to war over slavery, supported Jim Crow laws, etc?

Chinas man power alone is far greater and with Russia gives them all they need to war with us.China is advanced.

Population doesn't mean much in a war. In terms of nuclear capability, missile capability, Navy power (especially aircraft carriers), air fighters (China indeed has a large air force but the U.S. has far more advanced overall air capability and tons of planes), and the vast difference in magnitude of defense spending, research and development, technological advancement throughout the fleets, and the ability to wage long distance wars, it's not even comparable yet. The U.S. spends something like 40% of the total world's military budget, and combined with our NATO allies, it's way more than half of the total world's military budget and way more than the combination of Russia and China.

 

[adi2d]

It's a good question and one I seriously considered for a long time during my COF and subsequent leaving Christianity. It was simply an acknowelgement that there was never any real interaction with God directly. Just inner feelings and other people which indicated something profound of which led me to where I am now as far as religion and introspection goes. As far as potential punishment by a deity goes there really was none making such warnings /threats in the first place. It's other people bringing that to the forefront and is indicated nowhere else.
As far as tragedy and disasters and anything else associated with misfourtune you will find that such things are non-discrimatory as far as those things are concerned irregardless of faith or lack of.

I'm pretty sure there's a charge of 5 frubals for using the word
"Irregardless". If there isn't there should be. Just my two cents worth. Carry on kabitsing everyone

 

[EnochSDP]

Nice way to dodge any and all arguments.

The joe smoe that had slaves, supported slavery, went to war over slavery, supported Jim Crow laws, etc?

Population doesn't mean much in a war. In terms of nuclear capability, missile capability, Navy power (especially aircraft carriers), air fighters (China indeed has a large air force but the U.S. has far more advanced overall air capability and tons of planes), and the vast difference in magnitude of defense spending, research and development, technological advancement throughout the fleets, and the ability to wage long distance wars, it's not even comparable yet. The U.S. spends something like 40% of the total world's military budget, and combined with our NATO allies, it's way more than half of the total world's military budget and way more than the combination of Russia and China.

Yeah im sure that the fact china has 200 million in thier army and we have 1/50 of that.We are most advanced in technology.But ill put my money on china,russia,and india winning, even more so if the arab nation join them!
You say slave owners like all slave owners mistreated thier slaves.You also tend to think in a day when the law of the land supported slavery that owning one was considered wrong then.it may well be now.But you tarish names of slaver owners who had slaves to protect them from worse people and or helped them escape slavery.I full think the government supported and caused slavery to be around longer than it should but put blame on every person who had slaves.That unfair.You can not say that all slave owners intend or did treat thier slaves as less than themselves.Im sure many did but all is a big claim.You also seem to suggest that God caused slavery or ever supported it.Christians have never supported slavery and a person of God wouldnt.But the practice of some in a faith and practice of some in a nation doesnt label all the people in it.

 

[Penumbra]

Yeah im sure that the fact china has 200 million in thier army and we have 1/50 of that.We are most advanced in technology.But ill put my money on china,russia,and india winning, even more so if the arab nation join them!

This demonstrates a lack of understanding. Not 200 million; more like 3 million. And with a severe deficient in missiles, advanced planes, carriers, or basically any ability to wage sustained long-distance warfare compared to the U.S.

This is why we end up spending so much of our GDP on military. We can have all the shiny stuff, way more than everyone else, and people think it's never enough.

You say slave owners like all slave owners mistreated thier slaves.You also tend to think in a day when the law of the land supported slavery that owning one was considered wrong then.it may well be now.But you tarish names of slaver owners who had slaves to protect them from worse people and or helped them escape slavery.I full think the government supported and caused slavery to be around longer than it should but put blame on every person who had slaves.That unfair.You can not say that all slave owners intend or did treat thier slaves as less than themselves.Im sure many did but all is a big claim.You also seem to suggest that God caused slavery or ever supported it.Christians have never supported slavery and a person of God wouldnt.But the practice of some in a faith and practice of some in a nation doesnt label all the people in it.

This argument is all over the place.

-Was America a Christian nation or not?
-Was slavery widespread and supported by law or not?
-People were protecting their slaves from worse people? In what- a Christian nation with better morality than presently exists?
-Are you linking Christianity with a rise in material wealth and military power?

The argument that any of this constitutes an ethical peak in American history is illogical at best and dangerous at worst.

 

[Me Myself]

The argument that any of this constitutes an ethical peak in American history is illogical at best and dangerous at worst.

I´d say that sums it up perfectly.

 

[waitasec]

The facts are if a Bible and God believer is wrong then we die and there is nothing to worry or be concerned about.

stop right there. of course there is a lot to be concerned about.
as the here and now is affected because of this belief.

 

[Twilight Hue]

there is plenty of evidence but you do not accept it.

Only testimonial evidence based on personal interpretation . Objective conclusive evidence remains notably moot.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I'm pretty sure there's a charge of 5 frubals for using the word
"Irregardless". If there isn't there should be. Just my two cents worth. Carry on kabitsing everyone

Good way to add emphasis. Can I have my frubals back?

 

[EnochSDP]

This demonstrates a lack of understanding. Not 200 million; more like 3 million. And with a severe deficient in missiles, advanced planes, carriers, or basically any ability to wage sustained long-distance warfare compared to the U.S.

This is why we end up spending so much of our GDP on military. We can have all the shiny stuff, way more than everyone else, and people think it's never enough.

This argument is all over the place.

-Was America a Christian nation or not?
-Was slavery widespread and supported by law or not?
-People were protecting their slaves from worse people? In what- a Christian nation with better morality than presently exists?
-Are you linking Christianity with a rise in material wealth and military power?

The argument that any of this constitutes an ethical peak in American history is illogical at best and dangerous at worst.

America was and has been prodominantly Christian yes.
slavery has been around a long time and still is in free nations.But bein g slaves today is not the same as yesterday.It was supported by laws.
We also do not see eye to eye that christians describes many people.I do not even claim to be christian I just believe in Jesus and God of the Jews.The reason i dont is because the mass amount of Christians who label themselves that and do the opposite what a christians should do biblically.Im not saying our founders where meanong God of the Bible when the founded and our God we trust.I do mean regular citizens who read the Bible and tried to practiced what was within was slaves ownwers and thier slves probably read the Bible.Every man commits sin and the sin of the time is the worst because its natural as slavery was and so not looked down upon.That by no reason can diminish thier morality or ethics.Today we have no slavery and the ethics and morality are at a all time low because people allow abominations because they are concerned about allowing everyone live thier life without God than practicing what the Bible teaches.You want to say that christian people are unmoral or unvirtues because they had slaves?That would be a strecth.You then look at today and say there is not slaves today?even in america?People are not owned in some way to others today?You sound like a man who says because you belief in the Bible but do things the Bible tells you not to some how makes my faith and virtue meaningless?What is meaningless is not having faith!

 

[mycorrhiza]

Racism and slavery is wrong and in no part in the Bible supports it.It is tolerated and understood because that was the culture of the time, The Bible did not make the culture nor supported slavery.

I could give you several verses that support slavery and a few that easily can be interpreted to support racism, if you want.

So again America has risn to power by wealth and technology and military in what age?the age of the christian!and that age in america is coming to a end because of people wanting to refuse God.As the people in the Bible defied God and were judged so will we.Food shortage is coming,loss in wealth has begun,our military mite is not half of chinas.We are on a downward spirial and it started after 1900.That is when a great liberation of God started to begin fully.And since then america has been at war and our decline has begun.We are the start of it.

America wasn't founded on Christian values at all. When did people in the US own everything communaly? The US economy is based on Capitalism, which goes directly against the words of Jesus. How could a capitalist economy blossom if following God is what makes an economy blossom? A big military goes against Christianity too, seeing as it was better to be oppressed than to harm anyone.

 

[EnochSDP]

I could give you several verses that support slavery and a few that easily can be interpreted to support racism, if you want.

America wasn't founded on Christian values at all. When did people in the US own everything communaly? The US economy is based on Capitalism, which goes directly against the words of Jesus. How could a capitalist economy blossom if following God is what makes an economy blossom? A big military goes against Christianity too, seeing as it was better to be oppressed than to harm anyone.

Thats it i didnt say our leaders are really christian though they claim it.But our missionaries to spread the word the little america that believes God and they citizens as myself and plenty others who still teach the Bible not my belief or am I fronting about my faith.But yes strength in the Lord Raises nations always has.Look it up Babylonia-Daniel was a role player.Egypt-Moses and Abraham.Persia daniel and ezekiel.rome was a worst in control and Jesus came.Christainity spread and was accepted and gentiles have ruled since because most accepted this and not all really foloowed it but the strong in faith was blessed small and great.And it has been.But the Gentiles are turning from the Lord worldwide and science has progressed this and we all know america and england is weaking.

 

[tumbleweed41]

World History was not your strong suit in school was it?