Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Corpses don't get out of graves, - that is myth.
And yes, I understand that myth tells a story. The problem is when people believe these parts of the story to be fact.
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Do people understand the trinity doctrine?
- Thread starter Desert Snake
- Start date
Corpses don't get out of graves, - that is myth.
And yes, I understand that myth tells a story. The problem is when people believe these parts of the story to be fact.
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Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
By 'myth' you mean anything that YOU find hard to believe.
If you adopt a materialist position, you'll have to dismiss the whole of scripture. Pull on one thread and the whole of scripture will be unwound.
You say that all resurrection accounts are myth, but actually they make complete sense when seen through the eyes of God. He gave man his life and He is able to restore it.
Scripture tells us that the visible world is secondary to the invisible world of spirit. That makes complete sense. Even modern science recognises that the invisible comes before the visible. The idea of a singularity in the cosmos presupposes the existence of an eternal spirit. All that exists in time and space is part of creation.
If you adopt a materialist position, you'll have to dismiss the whole of scripture. Pull on one thread and the whole of scripture will be unwound.
You say that all resurrection accounts are myth, but actually they make complete sense when seen through the eyes of God. He gave man his life and He is able to restore it.
Scripture tells us that the visible world is secondary to the invisible world of spirit. That makes complete sense. Even modern science recognises that the invisible comes before the visible. The idea of a singularity in the cosmos presupposes the existence of an eternal spirit. All that exists in time and space is part of creation.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Nothing unravels when you read scripture accurately. - Because it is a HUMAN story, - and a relationship with ONE God!
Jesus never claimed to be a GOD, - or part of any trinity.
There is no trinity doctrine in the Bible.
Jesus did claim to be the awaited Jewish Messiah, - a HUMAN from the line of David.
LATER Christians took this HUMAN information - and turned it into fantasy - using mistranslation/misunderstanding of Tanakh texts, -
suddenly we have false stories of virgin births - mistaken from Isaiah and the Emmanuel story.
Then that doctrine of rising - gets twisted into stepping out of the grave with other corpses, and wandering around the city, when it just meant first to rise from SHEOL where according to the Bible - ALL wait for the Messiah.
A reasonable story of a relation ship with one's God - got turned into full-on myth.
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Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Why is that a problem? Is keeping all the Torah laws, a ''problem'', as well? Or people who think that they worship ''Satan'', a ''problem''? I mean, who cares? Religions are, what they are.
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
Ingledsva,
You have already argued that the New Testament is a human construction, with very little basis in truth. You seem to want to hang on to elements of the Tanakh, and even the idea of GOD, but without any conception of the supernatural. If you're going to argue a materialist position, then at least do it logically. Scrap all that stuff in Genesis about God creating out of nothing!
Scrap all that stuff about mythical trees in mythical gardens. And people that live to nearly 1000 years old.
Scrap the flood that never happened.
Scrap people who get translated into heaven. And languages that get confused.
Scrap stories of people who climb ladders to heaven, fly around on chariots of fire, and follow pillars of cloud and fire.
Scrap the stories of donkeys talking, of the sun standing still, and of people walking through furnaces and parted seas.
Scrap stories of giants, of an Ark causing boils, of a man being swallowed by a huge fish.
In fact, scrap the lot! You might get left with a reasonable story.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
We are discussing what the Bible ACTUALLY SAYS.
You folks have a problem with what you are teaching because after Jesus died HUMANS changed the story adding in unbelievable crap, - like virgin births, and corpses wandering around.
If read as written, understanding that you start with Jewish people, a Jewish ONE God (no trinity,) and the FACT that the Jewish Messiah was to be a special HUMAN from the Line of David, - then you don't have to start twisting scripture into fantastical false myth.
The Virgin crap - comes from a misreading/mistranslation of Isaiah. Jesus was not born from a virgin - but those whom misread, then had to make-up stories to match what they erroneously claimed was prophecy of Jesus' virgin birth.
The story as written - without the added fantastical crap - is an interesting one, of a people, their God, and end-time redemption.
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Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
So Jesus was not born of a virgin? That will upset Joseph. Maybe he should have gone ahead and stoned that Mary when she first told him those terrible lies. Why did he believe her story?
Muffled
Jesus in me
God told him to believe it.
It would have been a much greater act of love if He actually stayed dead. It is not much of a sacrifice if you come back alive and kicking after a couple of days, and you know that in advance.
Ciao
- viole
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
Hi Muffled,
I'm making the point to Ingledsva that once you start to distort God's Word, you find yourself unravelling the whole of scripture.
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
I disagree with you viole. Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit, but this could only be done after having suffered death, and after having been raised to life. As the scriptures state, a testament does not come into effect until the death of the testator. 'For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.' (Hebrews 9:16)
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Servant_of_the_One1
Well-Known Member
Its a confusing theory. Do u think the Lord of the Worlds would want to confuse people if trinity was truth?
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
It's not really that confusing. Ephesians makes it very clear: 'One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.'
Since Paul was talking to the Church at Ephesus, I understand him to mean 'believers' when he says 'all'.
How would YOU explain this passage without some notion of God dwelling AMONGST his people on Earth?
Laohg
Member
(YaHuWeH) El Elyon (Elohim)/Cronus is the Father, Elat/Rhea is the Mother, and YaHuWeH/Zeus/Jesus
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe His resurrection is an even greater demonstration of love because having died for me, I live but not just this current life but an everlasting one of which the resurrected Jesus is an example.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I beleive it was made very plain but that people decided to confuse it. Of course confusion and lies are usually the workings of the Devil.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe there is no evidence to support that concept.
The Trinity permeates throughout the Bible as here are a few examples....
For example, Peter refers to the saints who have been chosen "according to the foreknowledge of God The Father." (1 Peter 1:2) when Jesus made a post resurrection appearance to Thomas, the disciple worshipfully responded by addressing Him, "My Lord and MY GOD." (John 20:28) The Father also said of the Son, "Your throne O God, is forever and ever." In Acts 5:3-4, we are told that lying to the Holy Spirit is equivalent to lying to God. Peter said,"Ananias, why has satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit,,, You have not lied to men but to God."
Besides being called God, each of the three persons are seen on different occasions to possess the attributes of deity. Note the following examples:
All three persons possess the attribute of omnipresence:
The Father (1 Kings 8:27)
The Son (Matthew 28:20)
The Holy Spirit (psalm 139:7)
All three have the attribute of omniscience:
The Father (psalm 147:5)
The Son (John 16:30)
The Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:10)
All three have the attribute of omnipotence:
The Father (Psalm 135:6)
The Son (Matthew 28:18)
The Holy Spirit (Romans 15:19)
Holiness is ascribed to each of the three persons:
The Father (Revelation 15:4)
The Son (Acts 3:14)
The Holy Spirit (Romans 1:4)
Eternity is ascribed to each of the three persons:
The Father (Psalm 90:2)
The Son (Micah 5:2, John 1:4)
The Holy Spirit (Hebrews 9:14)
Each if the three persons is described as the Truth:
The Father (John 7:28)
The Son (Revelation 3:7)
The Holy Spirit (1 John 5:6)
Each of the three is called Lord (Luke 2:11, Romans 10:12, 2 Corinthians 3:17) each is called Everlasting (Romans 16:26, Hebrews 9:14, Revelation 22:13) each is called Almighty (Genesis 17:1, Romans 15:19, Revelation 1:8) and each is called Powerful (Jeremiah 32:17, Zechariah 4:6, Hebrews 1:3)
Can any one other than God have the Attributes of God?
In addition to having the attributes of deity, each of the three persons were involved in doing the works of deity. For example, all three were involved in the creation of the world:
The Father (Genesis 2:7, Psalm 102:25, 1 Corinthians 8:6)
The Son (John 1:3, Colossians 1;16, Hebrews 1:2)
The Holy Spirit (Genesis 1:2, Job 33:4, Psalm 104:30)
They were also involved in the incarnation and resurrection but I won't go into those verses as I think these are good for now.
Do you think human beings are capable of knowing everything about an infinite God? If yes please explain Isaiah 55:8-9, Romans 11:33, and 1 Corinthians 13:12.
The trinity is told throughout the word of God
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
BULL! We have gone through these over and over.
For instance - John 20:28 actually says - My Lord and my JUDGE. I do not understand how you folks don't understand these words have several meanings. JUDGE - fits the text. This is actually a story of JUDGMENT.
Joh 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
Joh 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
Joh 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peacebeunto you.
Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrustitinto my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my JUDGE.
Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
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And Hebrews
Heb 1:1 At sundry times and in diverse manors God spoke in the old time to our fathers by the Prophets: in these last days he (GOD) hath spoken unto us by his Son,
Heb 1:8 But moreover to the Son, the throne of Thee oh God, is forever and ever. A staff of righteousness is the scepter of thy reign.
Others have -
Heb 1:8 But moreover to the Son the throne, of THEE oh GOD, is Forever and ever...
Either way it shows Jesus gets the throne of God, - he is NOT God.
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Not sure why you are putting in Acts 5:3 - as the Holy Spirit is the acting power of God - NOT A BEING - so Ananias is trying to lie to God.
Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
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Mark 10:18 And he Jesus said to him: why me call good? None/Not even one is good; not one but the Deity.
John 5:30 I can do nothing by myself; but as I hear I judge, and my judgment is just; for I do not seek my own will, but the will of him who sent me.
Jesus is NOT GOD - nor part of a trinity - and every one of these verses you try to say show he is, - in reality show he is NOT, or have nothing to do with such.
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