Do people understand the trinity doctrine?

[Johnlove]

You are misunderstanding.
Even those who walked with Christ sinned daily.Look at Peter.

So you believe Peter sinned after receiving the Holy Spirit?


Does not your understanding make what John said wrong?


(1 John 3:9) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”


(1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did”


(1 John 3: 5 - 6) “Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him.”


(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who is a child of God sins because God's seed remains in him. Nor can he sin, because he is a child of God. This is what distinguishes the children of God from the children of the devil: whoever does not live uprightly and does not love his brother is not from God” New Jerusalem bible

 

[Nada]

So you believe Peter sinned after receiving the Holy Spirit?


Does not your understanding make what John said wrong?


(1 John 3:9) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”


(1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did”


(1 John 3: 5 - 6) “Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him.”


(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who is a child of God sins because God's seed remains in him. Nor can he sin, because he is a child of God. This is what distinguishes the children of God from the children of the devil: whoever does not live uprightly and does not love his brother is not from God” New Jerusalem bible

Well,Peter received holy spirit at the Pentecost of 33C.E. This was 10 days after Jesus ascended.50 days after Jesus was resurrected.There was an incident in Antioch where Peter was discriminating against uncircumcised men of the Gentile class.Paul had to correct him in front of everyone.

Galatians 2:11 When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.

12 For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision.…

13The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy.…



This incident took place way after Peter received holy spirit.

 

[Johnlove]

Well,Peter received holy spirit at the Pentecost of 33C.E. This was 10 days after Jesus ascended.50 days after Jesus was resurrected.There was an incident in Antioch where Peter was discriminating against uncircumcised men of the Gentile class.Paul had to correct him in front of everyone.

Galatians 2:11 When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.

12 For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision.…

13The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy.…



This incident took place way after Peter received holy spirit.

So your understanding of scripture mean that Peter deliberately disobeyed God/sinned?


If you are right then scripture says Peter could not be in Heaven.


Do you realize that people who sin and want to believe they are still righteous. need to believe that everyone sin.


Such people have to ignore all the scripture that tells them that a sinner will never go to Heaven.


I quote John, and all people do is to try to find scripture that they believe will say John is wrong.


I know from Jesus personally that what John, Peter, and Paul wrote about sin is the truth.


A Christian does not sin.


A person who is an infant in Christ, not yet spiritual, still sins. A spiritual Christian does not sin.


(1 Corinthians 3:1-3) “Brothers, I myself was unable to speak to you as people of the Spirit; I treated you as sensual men, still infants in Christ. What I fed you with was milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it; and indeed, you are still not ready for it since you are still unspiritual. Isn’t that obvious from all the jealousy and wrangling that there is among you, from the way that you go on behaving like ordinary people.”

 

[Redemptionsong]

If David's Lord was Jesus - then David would be committing sin - idolatry - with another God!

Ingledsva, you directly counter the word of God. David would not be committing sin because Jesus Christ is Lord! Jesus Christ is not another God, he is one with his Father.

The authorship of this Psalm (110) is without doubt. Unless, of course, you wish to assert, once again, that Jesus is ignorant of the truth! You might also notice, if you look carefully, that Psalm 110 has David's name attached. This is found in most Bibles, including the Jewish Study Bible.

Without the light of Christ you will continue to reside in darkness.

NT verses written long after events to try to make them match Tanakh, - obviously mean nothing.

So, you think the New Testament is a false prophecy. At least that point is clear!

 

[Nada]

So your understanding of scripture mean that Peter deliberately disobeyed God/sinned?


If you are right then scripture says Peter could not be in Heaven.


Do you realize that people who sin and want to believe they are still righteous. need to believe that everyone sin.


Such people have to ignore all the scripture that tells them that a sinner will never go to Heaven.


I quote John, and all people do is to try to find scripture that they believe will say John is wrong.


I know from Jesus personally that what John, Peter, and Paul wrote about sin is the truth.


A Christian does not sin.


A person who is an infant in Christ, not yet spiritual, still sins. A spiritual Christian does not sin.


(1 Corinthians 3:1-3) “Brothers, I myself was unable to speak to you as people of the Spirit; I treated you as sensual men, still infants in Christ. What I fed you with was milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it; and indeed, you are still not ready for it since you are still unspiritual. Isn’t that obvious from all the jealousy and wrangling that there is among you, from the way that you go on behaving like ordinary people.”

Very simply put.There is a difference between willfully sinning and every day common sins.We might say a curse word and say oops.Or ,we might pass a red light.Say something mean to someone.Look at a girl or guy in a desirable way.It can be anything.Now if we go out and commit adultery,and continue doing it,this is willfully sinning.If one continues with this behavior ,then this is bad.

Also,there is a HUGE difference between common men and those chosen by God.The NT is directed mainly to the 1st century Christians.
It pertains mostly to them.Those who walked with Christ and received holy spirit are those who will reside with Jesus Christ in heaven.
All others who follow the commandments of God will reside on earth forever.God created the earth to be inhabited forever.

Isaiah 45:18 For this is what the LORD says-- he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited-- he says: "I am the LORD, and there is no other.

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

So here we have passages from both the OT and the NT,and they are both stating that this earth was meant to be inhabited forever by humans.
Those who are blessed with the holy spirt,like the 1st century christians, that followed Jesus, have heavenly hope.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

nothing in the Bible promises heaven to anyone. can you find one verse that uses the word heaven and says anyone went there or is going there?

 

[Nada]

nothing in the Bible promises heaven to anyone. can you find one verse that uses the word heaven and says anyone went there or is going there?

Heavenly hope was given to those who walked with Christ and received the holy spirit.They were called the royal Priesthood.

• John 14:2, 3
  2 In the house of my Father are many dwelling places.Otherwise, I would have told you, for I am going my way to prepare a place for you. 3 Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will receive you home to myself, so that where I am you also may be.
  
  Here is the first reference to heaven by Jesus to his apostles.This is a promise of heavenly hope.
  
  
  • Hebrews 10:19, 20
    19 Therefore, brothers, since we have boldness for the way of entry into the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20 which he opened up for us as a new and living way through the curtain, that is, his flesh,
    
    
    We know from scripture that no man has ever gone to heaven before Jesus.
    
    • John 3:13 Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man.
      
      So from this we can see that only Jesus has come from and gone back to heaven.
  • We also have to keep in mind that Jesus was talking to the 1st century christians that followed God.These that were blessed with holy spirit,such as those who were at the Pentecost of 33 C.E. These are the ones with heavenly hope.All others who follow God shall reside on earth forever.It is explained in the holy scriptures.

Isaiah 45:18 For this is what the LORD says-- he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited-- he says: "I am the LORD, and there is no other.

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

An inheritance comes at the end. Those with heavenly hope will reside with Jesus in heaven where Gods government is.All others shall share in the work needed to be done on earth to restore it to its original state after all is complete.

 

[Nada]

nothing in the Bible promises heaven to anyone. can you find one verse that uses the word heaven and says anyone went there or is going there?

We know from scripture that God resides in heaven.A lofty place.Not earth.We know too that Jesus came from heaven, and went back to heaven.Jesus spoke to the apostles and promised them heavenly hope, if they stay true.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

John 14:22,23 says Jesus is coming back to earth to receive believers to Himself that "where I am you also may be". now when He comes back to earth, where will He be? He will be on earth. so if people will be where He is they will be on earth.. it also does not specifically use the word "heaven". there must be at least one verse that uses the word heaven and says people go there. it also does not make sense that Jesus would promise heaven only to people living in the first century and not to others.

 

[Nada]

John 14:22,23 says Jesus is coming back to earth to receive believers to Himself that "where I am you also may be". now when He comes back to earth, where will He be? He will be on earth. so if people will be where He is they will be on earth.. it also does not specifically use the word "heaven". there must be at least one verse that uses the word heaven and says people go there. it also does not make sense that Jesus would promise heaven only to people living in the first century and not to others.

It does not mean Jesus will literally be on earth.If you continue reading further it explains that Jesus will appear to those faithful ones in the clouds and these will be taken up.These are the remaining ones on earth that were blessed with hoy spirit.Yes,Jesus was speaking to the 1st century christians.One must also understand that many fall away over the years, and need to be replaced.It speaks of this in the book of Revelation.It refers to a certain number needed to be filled before the end will come.It began in the 1st century and has carried on until now.To us it has been 2,000 years.To God and Jesus it is but a blink of an eye.

You say it does not specifically say the word heaven.It is obvious it is heaven that is being spoken of.Jesus speaks of preparing a place for them in the holy place.Where his Father dwells.We already know this is heaven.It is so obvious.

 

[Johnlove]

Very simply put.There is a difference between willfully sinning and every day common sins.We might say a curse word and say oops.Or ,we might pass a red light.Say something mean to someone.Look at a girl or guy in a desirable way.It can be anything.Now if we go out and commit adultery,and continue doing it,this is willfully sinning.If one continues with this behavior ,then this is bad.

Also,there is a HUGE difference between common men and those chosen by God.The NT is directed mainly to the 1st century Christians.
It pertains mostly to them.Those who walked with Christ and received holy spirit are those who will reside with Jesus Christ in heaven.
All others who follow the commandments of God will reside on earth forever.God created the earth to be inhabited forever.

Isaiah 45:18 For this is what the LORD says-- he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited-- he says: "I am the LORD, and there is no other.

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

So here we have passages from both the OT and the NT,and they are both stating that this earth was meant to be inhabited forever by humans.
Those who are blessed with the holy spirt,like the 1st century christians, that followed Jesus, have heavenly hope.

A Spiritual Christian is one who has been given the knowledge of the truth. Any sin deliberately committed by such a person leads to death.


(Hebrews 10:26-31)


If a Spiritual Christian knows something is a wrongdoing and decides to committee that wrongdoing he or she will receive no repentance.


The Holy Spirit will soon bring one to not do what you call one’s everyday common sins. The Holy Spirit teaches and gives one the grace to always do God’s Will.


(1 John 5: 16) “If anybody sees his brother commit a sin that is not a deadly sin, he has only to pray, and God will give life to the sinner - not those who commit a deadly sin; for there is a sin that is death, and I will not say that you must pray about that. Every kind of wrongdoing is sin, but not all sin is deadly.



All these so called intelligent, educated people who have studied Christian Theology, and only a few even come close to understanding the truth.


(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because is of the devil. The devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”



Jesus came to defeat Satan/sin. That is the Good News.


Jesus gave his people his Holy Spirit who then guides, instructs, and gives them the grace/power to defeat Satan/sin.


John tells us that one who sins is of the devil. People truly don’t understand that if he or she sins then they are following Satan, and in no way are they following God.


Such people are being taught about God by the devil, and there is no way they can believe the truth.


I can and do post scripture after scripture that says a Christian is dead to sin, but those who sin have their eyes so blinded by Satan there is no way they will believe the written Word of God.


(1 John 3: 5 - 6) “Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him.”


(1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did”


(1 John 3:9) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”


(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s.”


(Romans 6:10-11) “For by dying, he is dead to sin once and for all, and now the life that he lives is life with God. In the same way, you must see yourselves as being dead to sin but alive for God in Christ Jesus.”


By the way believing that some people have been preselected by God to be children of God is only speculation. And what one believe about that has nothing to do with if one is going to Heaven or not.


One knows a child of God’s by how they live.

(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who is a child of God sins because God's seed remains in him. Nor can he sin, because he is a child of God. This is what distinguishes the children of God from the children of the devil: whoever does not live uprightly and does not love his brother is not from God”

 

[Nada]

John 14:22,23 says Jesus is coming back to earth to receive believers to Himself that "where I am you also may be". now when He comes back to earth, where will He be? He will be on earth. so if people will be where He is they will be on earth.. it also does not specifically use the word "heaven". there must be at least one verse that uses the word heaven and says people go there. it also does not make sense that Jesus would promise heaven only to people living in the first century and not to others.

Another thing many do not understand is that heaven is not some kick back place where people go to retire like Florida after they die.People do not get to choose wether they go or not.It is up to God.Heaven is a holy place where Gods government reside.Those who reside there have a job to do.They will be with Jesus.It is like D.C. in the U.S. It is designated for government.Same with Heaven.Earth is for all others.God made the earth to be inhabited.This was the original plan from the beginning ,before the fall.

 

[Nada]

A Spiritual Christian is one who has been given the knowledge of the truth. Any sin deliberately committed by such a person leads to death.


(Hebrews 10:26-31)


If a Spiritual Christian knows something is a wrongdoing and decides to committee that wrongdoing he or she will receive no repentance.


The Holy Spirit will soon bring one to not do what you call one’s everyday common sins. The Holy Spirit teaches and gives one the grace to always do God’s Will.


(1 John 5: 16) “If anybody sees his brother commit a sin that is not a deadly sin, he has only to pray, and God will give life to the sinner - not those who commit a deadly sin; for there is a sin that is death, and I will not say that you must pray about that. Every kind of wrongdoing is sin, but not all sin is deadly.



All these so called intelligent, educated people who have studied Christian Theology, and only a few even come close to understanding the truth.


(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because is of the devil. The devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”



Jesus came to defeat Satan/sin. That is the Good News.


Jesus gave his people his Holy Spirit who then guides, instructs, and gives them the grace/power to defeat Satan/sin.


John tells us that one who sins is of the devil. People truly don’t understand that if he or she sins then they are following Satan, and in no way are they following God.


Such people are being taught about God by the devil, and there is no way they can believe the truth.


I can and do post scripture after scripture that says a Christian is dead to sin, but those who sin have their eyes so blinded by Satan there is no way they will believe the written Word of God.


(1 John 3: 5 - 6) “Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him.”


(1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did”


(1 John 3:9) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”


(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s.”


(Romans 6:10-11) “For by dying, he is dead to sin once and for all, and now the life that he lives is life with God. In the same way, you must see yourselves as being dead to sin but alive for God in Christ Jesus.”


By the way believing that some people have been preselected by God to be children of God is only speculation. And what one believe about that has nothing to do with if one is going to Heaven or not.


One knows a child of God’s by how they live.

(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who is a child of God sins because God's seed remains in him. Nor can he sin, because he is a child of God. This is what distinguishes the children of God from the children of the devil: whoever does not live uprightly and does not love his brother is not from God”

Many make listakes.We are not robots that are led and not able to respond.Even if one is led by holy spirit,they can still fall.Many did things that were sins.Look at King David.He was anointed too.Peter denied Jesus 3 times.

 

[Johnlove]

Many make listakes.We are not robots that are led and not able to respond.Even if one is led by holy spirit,they can still fall.Many did things that were sins.Look at King David.He was anointed too.Peter denied Jesus 3 times.

Like I told you only a few will believe scripture.

 

[Nada]

Like I told you only a few will believe scripture.

So you seriously think Jesus talks to you in person?

 

[Redemptionsong]

Ingledsva,
Allow me to sum up three arguments to demonstrate the truth of Ephesians 4:6.
'One God, and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.'

This passage from Ephesians nicely captures the concept of the trinity. In the Old Testament, or Tanakh, God is above all. His word is communicated primarily through prophets.
Owing to the sinfulness of mankind, it became necessary for God to enter the earthly arena. For only God is a Saviour from sin.

What follows is the Gospel, the good news of Jesus Christ. The trinity becomes a New Testament reality.

God is 'through all' by the Word of God , otherwise known as the Son of God, Jesus Christ. Christ is spirit. The Word of God is Spirit.

The Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit, dwells within every believer. It is 'in you all' (speaking to the Church).

The following three scriptural arguments add weight to the idea that GOD HAS COME TO EARTH. This does not mean that GOD is NOT in heaven even when he is on earth!! God can be on earth and in heaven.

Argument 1. Christ is worthy of WORSHIP. Angels worship him.
Argument 2. Christ is our SAVIOUR. Only God is able to save from sin.
Argument 3. Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father in heaven. Christ is an earthly and HEAVENLY KING. It's all one kingdom under one king.

From the responses given, I don't see that any of these arguments have been adequately countered.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Bible Student should be able to answer this easily if he has truly stdied the Bible. the belief in "going to Heaven" is probablyone of the most important beliefs in many religions. yet there is not one verse that uses the word heaven and says anyone has gone or will go there. there are hints and suggestions but no direct statement. "in my Father's house are many mansions" is very questionable. could a if you take it literally, could a house really have many mansions in it? some interpret this verse to mean in God's government there are many positions and Jesus is preparing a position for us. and since Jesus will set up that government on earth the positions will not be in Heaven but in God's earthly government. so the meaning is not as obvious as many think. we still need that one verse that says people go to Heaven but since the Bible actually says "no man has ascended to Heaven" it may be hard to find a verse that say he has or will go there

 

[Johnlove]

So you seriously think Jesus talks to you in person?

Like I told you only a few will believe scripture.

Jesus told us he would call his own out, and they would recognize his voice.


Jesus has communicated with me in a number of different ways, and audibly calling me by name is only one of them.


A Spiritual Christian will become so close to Jesus that he or she will have the mind of Christ.


(1 Corinthians 2:16) “As scripture says;’ who can know the mind of the Lord, so who can teach him?’ But we are those who have the mind of Christ.”


With one having the mind of Christ, it is as if Jesus’ thoughts are his or her thoughts.


What is shard about the Spiritual walk with Jesus is laughed at by those who are not spiritual.


That means for the last forty some years almost everyone that knows me wants to believe I need a psychiatrist’s help.


What most people don’t know is that my wife had a degree in behavior science. Two of my daughter have master degrees in psychiatry. In fact one daughter has a year more than a master degree.


Sharing about a spiritual walk with Jesus has not made for much of a social life.


Jesus told me that was my cross to bear. Before accepting Jesus call people actually liked me. I was a president of two clubs. One in my church, and a business men’s club.

Also an acting president in another social club.


Now those clubs would not even want me as a member.

 

[paarsurrey]

Do people understand the trinity doctrine?

People don't need to understand trinity, it is false.
Regards

 

[Ingledsva]

If David's Lord was Jesus - then David would be committing sin - idolatry - with another God!

Ingledsva, you directly counter the word of God. David would not be committing sin because Jesus Christ is Lord! Jesus Christ is not another God, he is one with his Father.

ING - Absolute BULL! The Hebrew of that time (and now) did NOT believe in any trinity, - and thus would not have written about such. So you are absolutely WRONG!

BULL! Christians hijacking Jewish texts and coming up with new interpretations to mesh with their later ideas, obviously does NOT put me in conflict with any God! It puts the HIJACKERS of God's word to his CHOSEN People, - in direct conflict, and counter, to God's word!

Again - There was no Jesus then - so it is ridiculous to assume the human that wrote these Psalms was writing about him. We know he was writing about King David in that text. AGAIN! - Ask a Jew!

The authorship of this Psalm (110) is without doubt. Unless, of course, you wish to assert, once again, that Jesus is ignorant of the truth!

ING - Too FUNNY! Jesus did NOT write the Christian Bible. People long after his death did. You do not know that a single word in there is correct!

They conveniently had the Tanakh to try and make their verses match up!


You might also notice, if you look carefully, that Psalm 110 has David's name attached. This is found in most Bibles, including the Christian Bible!

ING - Yes indeed - the writer wants us to know whom this one is about.

Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. YHVH said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

NOTE - it does NOT say a psalm BY David! It says a Psalm OF David. The Psalmist wants us to know it is his Lord - King David, = YHVH said to My Lord!

Without the light of Christ you will continue to reside in darkness.

ING - more condemnation BULL - when you can't win a debate!

NT verses written long after events to try to make them match Tanakh, - obviously mean nothing.

So, you think the New Testament is a false prophecy. At least that point is clear!

EXPAND HIS to read all replies -

LOL! You are hilarious! You can't prove your assertions, - yet you take God's job and condemn people.

As already stated - the Christian Bible was created LONG after Jesus' death.

There is NO WAY to prove anything in there is what he taught.

In fact Christianity as we know it appears to be Saul/Paul's take-over and warping of the early Christian movement.

For instance as tatted over and over - there is actually NO trinity doctrine in the Bible. Jesus was a Jew claiming to be the awaited Jewish Messiah! Not a God, or part of a trinity.

*