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Do Plants Feel?

Noaidi

Noaidi

slow walker
Comet said:
Plants know what season it is, they know when it is day or night, they know when they are injured, they know when something is trying to hurt it, etc... Do they feel? Perhaps not like you or I "feel", but I think they do on some level we don't understand.
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They don't 'know' this. Plant responses to light, seasonal changes etc are purely hormonal, not nervous. To 'know' implies that they have a nervous system and / or a processing centre. In all my years as a botanist, I have never come across such a centre in plants. Yes, plants are sensitive to stimuli, but only in the sense that they respond to cues in an non-conscious way.
 
painted wolf

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
Given how different cell to cell communication is in plants do you think an animal like system is to be expected? Also many animals survive without brains or nervous systems. Jellyfish for example can process images without a brain.

Also, what is your opinion on plant to plant chemical communication and plant to insect communication?

wa:do
 
Noaidi

Noaidi

slow walker
painted wolf said:
Given how different cell to cell communication is in plants do you think an animal like system is to be expected? Also many animals survive without brains or nervous systems. Jellyfish for example can process images without a brain.

Also, what is your opinion on plant to plant chemical communication and plant to insect communication?

wa:do
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I don't know if your post was addressed to me, but I'll give it a go.
No, an animal-like system can't be expected in plants, but no research has shown that plants possess a system that allows them to feel (the premise of the OP). If there is reputable peer-reviewed evidence to the contrary, then I would be interested in reading it. Regarding jellyfish, a number of animals survive with just a basic ganglion (as opposed to a fully-fledged brain or nervous system) to process information. Some species of worm are able to differentiate between light and dark, despite possessing nothing more than a basic eye-spot.
Regarding plant-plant communication, yes I agree that there are instances where trees under attack from insects, for example, will emit chemicals that are detected by other trees in the vicinity, stimulating an increase in defence chemicals which may deter their herbivory. However, in the nature of the OP, does this constitute 'feeling' or a sense of consciousness in plants, or merely a response to an increase in air-borne chemicals?
 
painted wolf

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
No, an animal-like system can't be expected in plants, but no research has shown that plants possess a system that allows them to feel (the premise of the OP). If there is reputable peer-reviewed evidence to the contrary, then I would be interested in reading it.
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I suppose it would depend on how we define 'feeling' and 'consciousness'. I've posted some about plant communication which I find good fodder for thought experiments.

Regarding jellyfish, a number of animals survive with just a basic ganglion (as opposed to a fully-fledged brain or nervous system) to process information. Some species of worm are able to differentiate between light and dark, despite possessing nothing more than a basic eye-spot.
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What makes Jellies so interesting is that they don't even have a basic ganglion. It's not sure how their eyes process information, at least I have yet to hear anything on it.
Regarding plant-plant communication, yes I agree that there are instances where trees under attack from insects, for example, will emit chemicals that are detected by other trees in the vicinity, stimulating an increase in defence chemicals which may deter their herbivory. However, in the nature of the OP, does this constitute 'feeling' or a sense of consciousness in plants, or merely a response to an increase in air-borne chemicals?
Click to expand...
many animal reactions are just responses to increases in air-borne chemicals. Insects in particular, which is why they respond to plant chemical signals so well.

But how would be tell if a plant had consciousness?

wa:do
 
Noaidi

Noaidi

slow walker
Painted Wolf
This is a fascinating area of study. I will get back to you, but it's late here in the UK (2am). I'll read the links you posted earlier in more detail tomorrow and comment on them.
Sleep well (whatever the time is with you!).
 
Smoke

Smoke

Done here.
enchanted_one1975 said:
I think in honor of this thread we should all vow to eat more meat. I mean yea the animal has to die, but one animal can provide so many meals where many plants have to suffer to make just one meal. It is only common sense at this point to agree that meat is the more humane solution to this overwhelming problem. :yes:
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If it worries you, you could just become a fruitarian.
 
Rael

Rael

Musician
There was a study done a few years ago to see whether or not plants could feel. from what I know they took some cabbage and put it in boiling water and it started to convulse. Defiantly something to think about.
 
Noaidi

Noaidi

slow walker
whereismynotecard said:
So I planted four beans which I kept in my room with classical music playing loudly at least 6 hours a day, and I planted 4 which I kept in my younger sister's room with no music or sound as much as I could manage. Only two of the beans grew at all, one in each room, and the one in the room with the music got eaten by my cat, so I really couldn't find anything conclusive about the experiment. I was hoping maybe one group would grow better, but I guess not.
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Do you have any info on these types of experiments? One of my final-year high school pupils wants to do a biology project on this topic. I’ve had a brief search, but there is a lot of ‘new age’ type stuff on this subject, which isn’t suitable. Did you come across any good papers or articles that outlined a suitable methodology?

Thanks.
 
painted wolf

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
LoL Who doesn't like Death Metal?

I'll have to see if I can find that one... I'm curious what the experimental procedure was. I admit they are great with engineering puzzles... but I have my doubts about science experiments.

wa:do
 
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