Do Public Accommodations Laws Violate Free Speech and Free Exercise Rights?

[esmith]

The law won't be national in every state. How would this law benefit you?

You didn't answer the question. You said "What is not a 50 state law"

 

[esmith]

The law won't be national in every state. How would this law benefit you?

I do not have an "Enhanced CCW" permit, just a CCW permit. However I do not need one in my state. Be nice if Oregon recognized a Idaho Enhanced permit. However, it would benefit those that travel extensively.

 

[Nous]

Of course not; what it would do is make states/their subdivisions recognize visitors' CCW status in their home state as applicable to their CCW laws.

States will still set up under what conditions CCW licenses are valid, if any at all.

Exactly. You described it perfectly (as far as I understand it).

 

[Mister Emu]

Exactly. You described it perfectly (as far as I understand it).

Good, so Massachusetts could not deny a KY CCW holder the rights/privileges a Massachusetts CCW holder has. But all CCW regulatations in Massachusetts would still be in effect as to where and when you could carry.

 

[Mister Emu]

Why do you say it is unconstitutional.

I don't, I was granting it for the sake of the discussions.

 

[Thief]

sorry to be here late......
as for conduct....

I make knives as a hobby

If someone commissioned a blade and I then realize he is a sex offender......

no knife

so.....does someone else's sexual orientation and conduct matter to me?
apparently so

 

[Thief]

as for public service......

the gays buying a cake is not a public service....
it's personal

the handiwork of an artist....is personal

you should not have to deal with people you don't like
(freedom)

 

[Thief]

if a teenager with his new license came to my show room and wanted to buy my Viper....

no.

 

[Thief]

if I sold airplanes and a drunk slobbered on my hangar floor......

no

 

[Thief]

if granny wanted to buy a 50cal. revolver......

no

 

[Thief]

some guy dressed in black wanted a truck load of fertilizer........

no

 

[Thief]

a door to door insurance salesman.........

no

 

[Nous]

Good, so Massachusetts could not deny a KY CCW holder the rights/privileges a Massachusetts CCW holder has. But all CCW regulatations in Massachusetts would still be in effect as to where and when you could carry.

Massachusetts is not a "shall issue" state. One must show "good cause" for a CCW permit in MA.

 

[Mister Emu]

Massachusetts is not a "shall issue" state. One must show "good cause" for a CCW permit in MA.

Yes, but as we just agreed, MA has to recognize the Kentuckian's CCW status in KY. Thus the Kentuckian would have the same carrying rights/privileges as CCW licensed resident of MA. Massachusetts could restrict CCW however it liked, including not allowing it at all, but the restrictions and allowances apply equally to all citizens licensed or allowed by right in their home state.

It means you don't have to apply for a CCW license in every state, once you have it in your home state it is good everywhere in the country CC is allowed.

 

[tytlyf]

Yes, but as we just agreed, MA has to recognize the Kentuckian's CCW status in KY. Thus the Kentuckian would have the same carrying rights/privileges as CCW licensed resident of MA..

But non Kentuckians wouldn't be able to carry in MA. Why is law enforcement against this bill?

 

[Nous]

Yes, but as we just agreed, MA has to recognize the Kentuckian's CCW status in KY.

What I agreed with is what you said in #160:

". . . what it would do is make states/their subdivisions recognize visitors' CCW status in their home state as applicable to their CCW laws.

States will still set up under what conditions CCW licenses are valid, if any at all."

In Massachusetts, one must show good cause for a CCW permit. That requirement for a CCW permit would not be invalidated for a Kentuckian to possess a valid CCW permit in MA.

Think about what you're saying: Residents of MA must have "good cause" for a CCW permit, but people from states where a person doesn't even need a training course could carry concealed weapons in MA. That's nonsense.

 

[Mister Emu]

What I agreed with is what you said in #160:

". . . what it would do is make states/their subdivisions recognize visitors' CCW status in their home state as applicable to their CCW laws.

States will still set up under what conditions CCW licenses are valid, if any at all."

Yes, which includes the information that every state must recognize citizen visitors' CCW status in their home state. Where and when CCW permits are valid is up to the state, but the entire point of the reciprocity bill is that your CCW in Oregon, or Alaska, or Alabama is valid countrywide. The bill is titled "concealed carry reciprocity act", you should perhaps reconsider your understanding if you believe it doesn't create a reciprocity for conceal carry status.

Think about what you're saying: Residents of MA must have "good cause" for a CCW permit, but people from states where a person doesn't even need a training course could carry concealed weapons in MA. That's nonsense.

It could certainly be described as unfair, or preposterous, or any number of descriptions that demonstrate one's adversarial approach to the proposal.

 

[Nous]

Yes, which includes the information that every state must recognize citizen visitors' CCW status in their home state.

You said the bill would "make states/their subdivisions recognize visitors' CCW status in their home state as applicable to their CCW laws." A CCW permit without the person having good cause is not "applicable" to Massachusetts' law; such concealed carrying of a weapon is illegal in Massachusetts.

You said, "States will still set up under what conditions CCW licenses are valid, if any at all." CCW permits without the person having good cause are not valid in Massachusetts. In MA, the only way to make CCW permits from a state that doesn't have MA's requirements is to invalidate MA's CCW laws. The NRA agrees that HR 38 would not do that.

 

[esmith]

You said the bill would "make states/their subdivisions recognize visitors' CCW status in their home state as applicable to their CCW laws." A CCW permit without the person having good cause is not "applicable" to Massachusetts' law; such concealed carrying of a weapon is illegal in Massachusetts.

You said, "States will still set up under what conditions CCW licenses are valid, if any at all." CCW permits without the person having good cause are not valid in Massachusetts. In MA, the only way to make CCW permits from a state that doesn't have MA's requirements is to invalidate MA's CCW laws. The NRA agrees that HR 38 would not do that.

Please provide a link from the NRA-ILA that says exactly that.

 

[esmith]

Seems that there are some that disagree with you @Nous
Note: below link has invalid accusations. Examples
"allowing people who have never been screened by a background check to carry throughout the country."
"It would force each state to recognize all permits—even if the permit holder would otherwise not be allowed to possess a gun."
So you might want to disagree with their premise about all states must honor all other states CCW permits
https://everytownresearch.org/conce...y-h-r-38-overriding-state-public-safety-laws/

other links
Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017 (H.R. 38)
https://www.thetrace.org/2017/04/nra-national-concealed-carry-reciprocity-explained/

At this time I have my own opinion; However, I will no longer express it until the bill becomes law.