Do religious people question the holy scriptures that they read???

[logician]

Most Christians I knew when I was a Christian never questioned the scriptures, unquestioning belief (no doubting Thomases need apply) really is stressed in Christianity.

There may have been different interpretations of the scripture, but there was no doubt of their veracity or historicity.

 

[Katzpur]

I didn't ask anyone to define MY faith - I asked for a definition of THEIR faith.

That can be a real problem on this forum. Believe me, I speak from experience!

 

[smitten508]

“You asked me to define the word "faith" in the context of what it meant to me, and I responded. I then asked you to define what faith means to you.”
OK. I’ll play.
1st is not as simple a question as it seems. Let me start with some examples of what is NOT faith.

To believe this pencil will fall to the floor if I let it go is not faith. It is a prediction based on long, well understood experience that has been repeated w/o exception thru out all recorded history.

My wife has been faithful to me for 49 yrs. I have no doubt she will continue to be. But that absence of doubt is NOT faith. I have long and verified experience on which to base my confidence.

I bought a stock today on the expectation that it will increase in value in the next few weeks. That expectation is based on facts which are both well known and verified. But I have no faith in that expectation. It is just a likely outcome in which I have some confidence.


If I were to assert that invisible pink unicorns exist on Mars that would be a statement of Faith. I have zero evidence for such creatures on Mars or anywhere else.

Religious faith is an example of the latter. You believe it because you WANT to believe it. And you interpret the physical world in such a way to support that faith because you want that support. But you cannot produce verified or repeatable or falsifiable evidence for your faith. You just assert it as fact.

So reproducanle, provable things aren't faith??? So, that following Christ changes your life isn't faith, its fact? Because throughout the last 2000 years Christianity, moreso than ANY other philosophy has reproduced that FACT countless times, for countless people, in countless lands... I think you have just proven the point that we have been trying to show you... You have only faith that atheism is a way to be, since the only REAL verifiable studies you have show that things get worse. Whereas Christianity has brought public hospitals, public education and a reverence to others. That dear atheist friend is verified, tested again and again and proven in history. So where do you REALLY stand? I believe you have convinced me... Faith is for suckers, I need hard factual proof!

 

[Don Penguinoini]

My firm belief about that is when they start to question the holy scriptures then they will realize that they contradicts itself, and if you don't then you will probably never realize what a wonderful world you will be missing out on.

"If you don't ask questions then you will never learn"

Only the good ones ask. The bad followers take it all and believe.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

“You have only faith that atheism is a way to be, since the only REAL verifiable studies you have show that things get worse. Whereas Christianity has brought public hospitals, public education and a reverence to others.”

Oh really? Like witches being burned kind of reverence? Like slavery and rape both encouraged and glorified reverence? Like science made a hand maiden to myth? Reason held hostage to superstition? Like your “faith” told folks to whip themselves and boil roots to cure plague?

That the kind of “reverence for others” you are so proud of? Sorry pointless question. Of course it is. It was all done in god’s name and all part of his eternal plan for the betterment of us all.

Your “faith” is a hateful medieval myth that has held us back for 1000 years.

We will ALL be better off when the very idea of supernatural religion is erased from human consciousness.:shout

 

[sojourner]

We will ALL be better off when the very idea of supernatural religion is erased from human consciousness.

Yes. You're right! Let's reduce humanity to its lowest common denominator. Let's remove poetry and storytelling from our literature. Let's remove aesthetic from design. Let's remove beauty from art. Let's reduce everything to its nuts and bolts constituent parts. Let's speak of automobiles in terms of parts lists instead of using bad terminology like "sexy," or "beautiful," or "screamer." Let's speak of married love in terms of pheromones and hormone levels, instead of in terms of love, spiritual connection, or "sacramental."

This is the kind of soft, lifeless, PC crappola that has plagued humanity for far too long. Lowest common denominator indeed. Let's not ever go out on a limb, celebrate what it means for us to be alive, acknowledge that, for brief, shining moments, we can stand on mountaintops and touch the sky.

If we were to abide by your formula, we would have never made it to the moon. that endeavor was, for humanity more about a spiritual endeavor than it was about technology. Even Gene Kranz, noted NASA flight director will corroborate that.

"Supernatural religion" is what makes us greater than the sum of our parts. "Supernatural religion" is what coaxes us out of our mediocrity and puts us outside ourselves, so that we can achieve greatness. "Supernatural religion" is what allows us to create beauty, and form, and bow to the call of faith, and hope, and love.

Are you really that mundane, afraid, and lackluster? You must be total bore at parties...but a great hat-rack.

 

[Riverwolf]

We will ALL be better off when the very idea of supernatural religion is erased from human consciousness.:shout

Will we?

Or will we blow up the earth instead?

Quite frankly, I think we're advancing waaaaaaaaay too fast right now. I can barely keep up to the point where I say "screw ipods! I'm using my phonograph!" (and I'm 21, by the way)

You could say the superstition has kept technology advancement in check so that it doesn't get out of hand, like it is now. Don't get me wrong; I love technology. (otherwise, what the bloody heck am I doing on a computer?) But it's going way too fast.

Advancement is nothing wrong. Leaping without looking is suicidal.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

"Let's reduce humanity to its lowest common denominator. Let's remove poetry and storytelling from our literature."

LOL!

What a strawman!:sleep: NONE of what you have posted has ANYTHING to do with fairies, witches, invisible fairy god-fathers, a 6,000 yr old earth, demons, heaven or hell.

Nothing to do with supernatural religion in short.

And your literature crack is WAY off base.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/literature/75693-shakespeare-noob-5.html

#42

You should hope to do as well.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

"Advancement is nothing wrong. Leaping without looking is suicidal."

Heard it all before. Long before you were a gleam in your daddy's eye.

How "atomic power" was an affront to god. How we had gotten "too big for our britches." How we were "tinkering with god's universe."

Every Church in America in the 50's was calling Einstein the "godless one." That god's wrath was going to incinerate the world in an atomic blast as punishment for "trying to be bigger than god."

It was BS then, it is BS now.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

". . .but a great hat-rack."

Actually I make a better umbrella stand than a hat rack.

But thanks for the thought.

 

[Riverwolf]

"Advancement is nothing wrong. Leaping without looking is suicidal."

Heard it all before. Long before you were a gleam in your daddy's eye.

How "atomic power" was an affront to god. How we had gotten "too big for our britches." How we were "tinkering with god's universe."

Every Church in America in the 50's was calling Einstein the "godless one." That god's wrath was going to incinerate the world in an atomic blast as punishment for "trying to be bigger than god."

It was BS then, it is BS now.

:biglaugh:

That's not where I was coming from.

I'll tell you where I'm coming from: the human race is still in it's childhood. Yet we've found a gun, and we're playing with it before we know how to safely use it. (though I will say that we're learning... slowly)

I'm not using the Bible; I'm using Jurassic Park. "Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they never stopped to think if they should!" (Ian Malcome)

If you've heard it all before I was a gleam in my daddy's eye, then you should remember far better than I do that we came within a gnat's wing to nuclear war with the Soviet Union; I normally don't believe in luck, but I will say that it was pure luck that we're even alive to talk about it now.

Einstein was a genius, and a man whom I have a lot of respect for. I do not place blame on him for atomic power, even if he was a supporter of it, something I'm not sure of. My problem with atomic power has nothing to do with God. It's the same problem I have with making guns far too accessible to kids who obtain them and then go around schools shooting people at random.

The only technologies that I feel is going too slowly are whatever technology that could be used to extract salt from seawater to make it drinkable, ecologically safe renewable energy, and telescope technology.

 

[kai]

My firm belief about that is when they start to question the holy scriptures then they will realize that they contradicts itself, and if you don't then you will probably never realize what a wonderful world you will be missing out on.

"If you don't ask questions then you will never learn"

what if those holy scriptures demand that you are not allowed to question them ? it could be basphemy to do so,

 

[sojourner]

"Let's reduce humanity to its lowest common denominator. Let's remove poetry and storytelling from our literature."

LOL!

What a strawman!:sleep: NONE of what you have posted has ANYTHING to do with fairies, witches, invisible fairy god-fathers, a 6,000 yr old earth, demons, heaven or hell.

Nothing to do with supernatural religion in short.

And your literature crack is WAY off base.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/literature/75693-shakespeare-noob-5.html

#42

You should hope to do as well.

This is why the play is called the “The Tragedy of Macbeth” instead of “The Tale of the Murderer Macbeth.” Here is a basically good guy, noble, honest, a proven warrior, who commits regicide for no reason but “vaulting ambition.” There is nothing wrong with ambition. It is behind much progress and good in the world. But here a good man is ruined by it. And his society and many others harmed or killed.

The lines quoted say a lot MORE than the poster understood. About us; as moral reasoning and responsible beings.

This represents "the very idea of supernatural religion."

I pity the man who can't see beyond the measurement of frequencies in the refraction of light and see in a sunset -- for just a moment -- God's music. People kiss under sunsets for that reason -- not because they're carried away by the thrill of mathematics.

This has everything to do with "fairies, witches, invisible fairy god-fathers, a 6,000 yr old earth, demons, heaven and hell." Those flights of fancy carry us outside ourselves and let us imagine and create. No one reads Shakespeare because they're thrilled by his morals. People read Shakespeare because he's a beautiful writer, because he can lift us above the dirt of empiricism. When we talk about Shakespeare, we don't talk about the alphabet, or even the words, or even the syntax. We talk about aesthetic -- that "land" where fairies, witches, godmothers and heaven" dwell.

As I've said in another thread, Christmas must be a real hoot at your house. You must hate Mickey Mouse.

When you watch cartoons, I'll bet you spend the whole time looking for mistakes in the drawings and thinking "this isn't real, this isn't real, this isn't real," instead of letting your mind go with the whimsy.

That's the essence of "supernatural religion."

Too bad for you.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

"You must hate Mickey Mouse."

I am indifferent to Micky Mouse I don't watch cartoons and I quit believing in fairy tales about age 9.

So you think Zeus was real? Or maybe Athena REALLY did catch that spear Hector threw?

The human capacity for self-delusion is truly endless. And you are exhibit one in support of that observation.

 

[sojourner]

I am indifferent to Micky Mouse I don't watch cartoons and I quit believing in fairy tales about age 9.

What a pasty-beige life you must lead.

So you think Zeus was real? Or maybe Athena REALLY did catch that spear Hector threw?

In an an allegorical sense, yes.

The human capacity for self-delusion is truly endless. And you are exhibit one in support of that observation

The human capacity for imagination to see beyond fact into truth is amazing. And I'm proud to be exhibit one in support of that observation.

 

[gzusfrk]

yes ,,for about 20 years or so!!

 

[Riverwolf]

So... once you stop believing something to be real you should stop enjoying it?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

My firm belief about that is when they start to question the holy scriptures then they will realize that they contradicts itself, and if you don't then you will probably never realize what a wonderful world you will be missing out on.

When people are true believers, evidence which counters their presupposed beliefs doesn't make them question their faith - it actually makes it stronger. Contradictions and inconsistencies are seen as irrelevant, misinterpreted, or tests of faith. Since the belief cannot be questioned, anything which doesn't support it has to be.

 

[sojourner]

When people are true believers, evidence which counters their presupposed beliefs doesn't make them question their faith - it actually makes it stronger. Contradictions and inconsistencies are seen as irrelevant, misinterpreted, or tests of faith. Since the belief cannot be questioned, anything which doesn't support it has to be.

I don't think it's that hard-and-fast -- at least it's not for me. I question beliefs all the time. Contradictions and inconsistencies can sometimes be explained. Sometimes they just have to stand, and they then call our beliefs into question. Sometimes, the two are never reconciled, and that's OK too.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

"Sometimes, the two are never reconciled, and that's OK too."

Well that makes sense. If you believe fantasy is real then a few facts in conflict would be no problem.

Course that also makes it impossible to establish anything as actual fact to be relied on.