Do Santa, Christmas Trees etc. Bother You?

[URAVIP2ME]

Then go to Japan and change that.

I find your reply to be of a ' smart alec ' nature.
I don't know what point you are trying to make.
One historian calculated that out of all the people Jesus talked to that only 1% became his follower.
Then, true are the words of Matthew 24:9 that Jesus' followers would be hated by the nations.
So, how would anyone go to the nation of Japan and change Japan ___________
No, insulting reply please.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

You have no idea the exact age of Jesus when he was put to death.

Personally, I do Not, I am saying according to -> Scripture....
I find at Luke 1:1 that Luke set forth in order a 'declaration' (statement of facts) meaning Luke had access to the public Temple genealogical records.
Luke 3:1-2 gives us the setting for John the Baptiser. Not in the winter to baptise people.
The 70 weeks of years foretold by Daniel 9:24-27, so the people were already in ' expectation ' (Luke 3:15) of Messiah arriving at that time.
Because of that Luke wrote at Luke 3:23 places Jesus at about age 30 when Baptised as Messiah. The Autumn of the year.
Jesus was executed in the Spring month of Nisan the 14th day in the year 33 ( 6 months difference between Autumn and Spring.)
Thus, a ministry of 3 1/2 years starts at his Autumn baptism 29 CE and ends with his death in the Spring of 33 CE (common era)

 

[URAVIP2ME]

However, your position above doesn't negate 1) They knew the kings of the Jesus was born 2) the came to worship 3) the gifts still have spiritual implications.
If was only Jews... then you and I are out and he wouldn't have healed two people outside of the Jews...
No, it was the Jews first and then the Gentiles for he had "another fold" as he said.
Where did scripture say don't celebrate birthdays? I think your position is very religious as you are teaching traditions of men as mandates from God. IMV.

The un-numbered magi brought 3 gifts, Not by 3 men. They were Not kings they were: astrologers.
Yes, Jews first, then the Samaritans second , then the people of the gentile nations third.
So, the 'two folds' have nothing to do with the ^ above ^ three.
The ' another fold ' are like the figurative ' sheep ' found at Matthew 25:31-33,37.
The smaller fold are like people found at Luke 22:28-30; Daniel 7:18; Revelation 2:10.

Neither Jesus nor his apostles celebrated birthdays. So, we find No place in Scripture stating they did.
In the book the Lore or Birthdays shows pagan origins.
Birthdays are a tradition, a custom, of Men - Matthew 15:9

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I remember someone said that as Christians, we are Jews because we believe in Abraham. The Bible mentions spiritual Jews. What is spiritual Israel? .............

Yes, ' spiritual Jews ' as the ones found at Romans 2:28-29.
'Spiritual Israel' is the 'spiritual nation' mentioned at 1 Peter 2:9,5 ( aka the Christian 'wheat' congregation as a whole )
This nation has No borders nor boundaries found located on any map.
Spiritual Israel has ' Heavenly Jerusalem ' as the now seat of government -> Galatians 4:26

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Personally, I do Not, I am saying according to -> Scripture....
I find at Luke 1:1 that Luke set forth in order a 'declaration' (statement of facts) meaning Luke had access to the public Temple genealogical records.
Luke 3:1-2 gives us the setting for John the Baptiser. Not in the winter to baptise people.
The 70 weeks of years foretold by Daniel 9:24-27, so the people were already in ' expectation ' (Luke 3:15) of Messiah arriving at that time.
Because of that Luke wrote at Luke 3:23 places Jesus at about age 30 when Baptised as Messiah. The Autumn of the year.
Jesus was executed in the Spring month of Nisan the 14th day in the year 33 ( 6 months difference between Autumn and Spring.)
Thus, a ministry of 3 1/2 years starts at his Autumn baptism 29 CE and ends with his death in the Spring of 33 CE (common era)

You two guys can't even agree with each other.

 

[Deeje]

You missed the point that he wasn't an Israelite (because they didn't exist) and yet God spoke to him. We can't put God in a box and tell Him who He can speak to and who He can't speak to. God sent an angel to speak to Cornelius and he wasn't an Israelite. Melchizedek wasn't an Israelite but God spoke through Him.

Now I think you are missing the point. Who said one had to be an Israelite to follow God's instructions? If those ones lived before Jacob was even born, then it was impossible for them to be Israelites. God has always had his faithful worshippers, right from Abel through to today.....but once he had formed his chosen nation from Abraham's descendants, he gave them alone his laws and expected the Israelites to obey them. He gave his laws to no other people, and one could not come into God's nation without first converting to Judaism...which meant that one had to live as a Jew, and worship as a Jew in order to serve the true God as one of his worshippers. Gentile converts were to be accepted as "brothers".

Melchizedek was both a king and a priest, which is something he could never have been if he had lived as an Israelite. Kings and priests came from different tribes. He prefigured Jesus Christ who is also a king and a priest....by direct appointment from God.

No, I have it right. It IS a tradition of man... but you teach it as a commandment of God. Not a spiritual act of worship to a god - that Deut forbids

Spiritism was inextricably tied in to the worship of the Canaanites. The celebration of birthdays was part of that false worship.

When the Israelites were departing from their captivity in Babylon, they had to leave behind them anything having a taint of Babylon’s false worship. Since they carried the utensils of Jehovah that came from the temple in Jerusalem, they have to be clean, not merely in an outward, ceremonial way, but primarily in their hearts.
Isaiah 52:11....
"Turn away, turn away, get out of there, touch nothing unclean; get out from the midst of her, keep yourselves clean, you who are carrying the utensils of Jehovah."

Those obeying God and getting out of "Babylon the great" must do the same. (Revelation 18:4-5)

What is "Babylon the great" and how does it correlate to original Babylon?

Celebrating Jesus' birthday was never commanded and the fact that the date remains unknown to this day, confirms this. Every festival prescribed by God was overseen by him...the date, the activities and the location were all written down for Israel to obey very aspect....no more and no less. Anything over and above what God commanded was considered "a tradition of men" and if it involved worship in any way, it was to be avoided.

but a simply rejoicing that we have someone we love with us.

Oh please.....Christmas is not anything like that. We can 'rejoice to have someone we love with us'....without disobeying God in the process.

You are celebrating something that God forbade his people to do.....something Paul warned could separate us from God by trying to fuse true worship with false worship.....but if you wish to justify it to yourself, that is up to you. We will all answer for our choices. God can forgive things done in ignorance if we are repentant.....but not when we know better and the action is willful and deliberate.

Obedience is all God has ever asked of his worshippers.

There is no point in further discussion.....you are as free to believe whatever you wish, as I am.
All questions are now rhetorical....you must answer them yourself.
Be well.

 

[metis]

There's a great many things that we all do, including JW's, that are not mandated in scripture, so are all of those from "Babylon the Great" as well, thus to be avoided? Pictures in "Watchtower" magazine are a case in point, as is the fabricated name "Jehovah".

Also, "Babylon the Great" was a reference to the Roman Empire, and the Roman Empire has been gone for well over a thousand years. Also, Jesus said he'd guide his Church until the end of time, and yet the JW's are less than 200 years old, thus it certainly could not possibly pertain to them.

 

[Zaha Torte]

Well I hate to have to break it to you, but that is actually true...except that it wasn't "Christianity" that went bad...it was "the church". It was foretold though....did you know that?

Shouldn't the fact that the Gregorian calendar, (that we use to this day) which was issued by Pope Gregory and carries the names of false gods for all the months and days of the week, have raised some red flags somewhere?

'Christian is as Christian does'.....you can't call yourself a "Christian" and then do all the things that the Father condemned. Everything Jesus taught was from his God and Father. The first of the Ten Commandments was "thou shalt have no other gods but me". When you adopt the worship of false gods, (regardless of what you call it) you are putting another god in place of the Father. Christmas was originally a festival honoring the god Mithra. All the customs associated with Christmas comes from that, mixed in with other pagan traditions borrowed from the Norse gods.



LOL....the apostle Paul said that if we "touch" what is spiritually "unclean" (like the trappings of false worship) we will not be accepted as God's "sons and daughters". (2 Corinthians 6:14-18)
There is no such thing as a "state religion" in Christianity, just as there is no nation that can collectively call themselves "Christian" either. Christianity was to be chosen on an individual basis after accepting Christ's teachings...it cannot be mandated.

Israel was punished time and time again for their excursions into false worship, incurring God's anger and punishment. What makes Christendom think she can get away with it?

Why do you associate the celebration of Christmas with worship?

I worship God the Father in the name of Christ every single day.

This may be why people making their own day to celebrate the birth of Christ or charity or fat people or whatever does not bother me.

I don't consider Christmas to be related to worship.

 

[Zaha Torte]

I find your reply to be of a ' smart alec ' nature.
I don't know what point you are trying to make.
One historian calculated that out of all the people Jesus talked to that only 1% became his follower.
Then, true are the words of Matthew 24:9 that Jesus' followers would be hated by the nations.
So, how would anyone go to the nation of Japan and change Japan ___________
No, insulting reply please.

It was a little snarky because I find your premise to be ridiculous.

Rather than complaining about Japan not getting the "right brand" of Christianity because they were exposed to Christmas rather than what you believe is important - go to Japan and sell Jesus to them the way you want to.

Not everyone that believes in Jesus agree on everything.

 

[metis]

I don't consider Christmas to be related to worship.

It does mean the "mass of Christ", which is a day (obviously 12-25) on the liturgical calendar that is set aside to commemorate God sending Jesus to us. But the real celebration is the mass itself, thus not any ornamentation or Santa, or reindeer, or...

BTW, did you know about Randolph the Brown-Nosed reindeer? He ran right behind Rudolph and was just as fast but couldn't stop as quick.

 

[Zaha Torte]

It does mean the "mass of Christ", which is a day (obviously 12-25) on the liturgical calendar that is set aside to commemorate God sending Jesus to us. But the real celebration is the mass itself, thus not any ornamentation or Santa, or reindeer, or...

BTW, did you know about Randolph the Brown-Nosed reindeer? He ran right behind Rudolph and was just as fast but couldn't stop as quick.

Hah. I consider the celebration of Christmas like I do Christian rock music. It's great and it's fun but it's not worship.

 

[Deeje]

Why do you associate the celebration of Christmas with worship? Because it is an important part of Christendom's religious calendar. The "in name only Christians" will often only go to church at Christmas and Easter. You cant separate the the celebration from their worship.

Spiritism was inextricably tied in to the worship of the Canaanites. The celebration of birthdays was part of their false worship.

When the Israelites were departing from their captivity in Babylon, they had to leave behind them anything having a taint of Babylon’s false worship. Since they carried the utensils of Jehovah that came from the temple in Jerusalem, they have to be clean, not merely in an outward, ceremonial way, but primarily in their hearts.
Isaiah 52:11....
"Turn away, turn away, get out of there, touch nothing unclean; get out from the midst of her, keep yourselves clean, you who are carrying the utensils of Jehovah."

Those obeying God and getting out of "Babylon the great" must do the same. (Revelation 18:4-5)

What is "Babylon the great" and how does it correlate to original Babylon?

Celebrating Jesus' birthday was never commanded and the fact that the date remains unknown to this day, confirms this. Every festival prescribed by God was overseen by him...the date, the activities and the location were all written down for Israel to obey very aspect....no more and no less. Anything over and above what God commanded was considered "a tradition of men" and if it involved worship in any way, it was to be avoided.

I worship God the Father in the name of Christ every single day.

If you are part of Christendom, then you worship Jesus as God...the Father barely gets a mention and yet he is the God of Jesus Christ, even in heaven. (Revelation 3:12)

This may be why people making their own day to celebrate the birth of Christ or charity or fat people or whatever does not bother me.

It isn't about whether it bothers you.....its more importantly about whether it bothers God.

Jehovah has no interest in what his people do unless it is immoral, being friends with the world by adopting its ways and standards, shedding blood, or their activities being tied in with false worship. It is these factors upon which he judges us all.
Israel were constantly giving God grief because of those very things.

I don't consider Christmas to be related to worship.

It is religious and inextricably tied in with Christendom's worship. When God said to "touch nothing unclean" in a spiritual sense, he meant it. He punished Israel for doing that. It is "the will of the Father" that we refrain from all contact with false religion. (Matthew 7:21-23; 2 Corinthians 6:14-18)

 

[Deeje]

Not everyone that believes in Jesus agree on everything.

Is there any valid reason why they shouldn't? (1 Corinthians 1:10)

 

[JustGeorge]

Is there any valid reason why they shouldn't? (1 Corinthians 1:10)

Would it be acceptable for one believer to prefer Chevy, and another Ford, or does there need to be a consensus there, as well?

 

[Deeje]

Would it be acceptable for one believer to prefer Chevy, and another Ford, or does there need to be a consensus there, as well?

Hmmm, not sure that God cares about our choice of motor vehicles...but he is concerned about our choices in worship, especially with a deceiver in the world planting all sorts of fake "Christian" trees all around the original in order to hide it and confuse people. It works so he's not going to change his tactics.

 

[metis]

Hah. I consider the celebration of Christmas like I do Christian rock music. It's great and it's fun but it's not worship.

Have you ever been to a mass? It's a serious religious service, not "fun", and the same is true with the "Mass of Christ" [aka "Christmas"].

 

[JustGeorge]

Have you ever been to a mass? It's a serious religious service, not "fun", and the same is true with the "Mass of Christ" [aka "Christmas"].

Fun's a relative term. I went to a mass once, just to see what it was.

It wasn't exhilarating, but it was certainly better than staying home and watching the family sit on their smartphones.

 

[Rival]

Fun's a relative term. I went to a mass once, just to see what it was.

It wasn't exhilarating, but it was certainly better than staying home and watching the family sit on their smartphones.

There were two women at an RCC I used to attend and they would sing for themselves as a pair before the mass started. I could just sit and listen to them they were brilliant.

 

[Martin]

Bah humbug. I was hoping they'd cancel Chrismus due to Covid. Humph.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Bah humbug. I was hoping they'd cancel Chrismus due to Covid. Humph.

I wonder if Christmas was banned, outlawed, then how many would openly celebrate it.____________
If celebrating meant being fined or jail time how many would stand up for their holy day of Christmas _____________