Do Santa, Christmas Trees etc. Bother You?

[URAVIP2ME]

It was a little snarky because I find your premise to be ridiculous.
Rather than complaining about Japan not getting the "right brand" of Christianity because they were exposed to Christmas rather than what you believe is important - go to Japan and sell Jesus to them the way you want to. Not everyone that believes in Jesus agree on everything.

Right, the fake 'weed/tares' will Not agree with the genuine 'wheat' Christians.
Both grow together until the Harvest Time or the soon coming Time of Separation as found at Matthew 25:31-33,37.
If I was younger and you would pay my way (can't afford it ) I would gladly go to Japan.
It is Not that there are Not Christians in Japan, the good news of Matthew 24:14 is proclaimed there as it is here and elsewhere.
Missionaries have been sent to Japan for decades.
Exposure and accepting the Christmas lie appeals to the fake ' weed/tares ' form of Christianity ( aka Christendom )
I don't mean that as complaining but as scriptural fact.
Please notice the list of things God hates according to Proverbs 6:16-19 especially at verse 17.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Why do you associate the celebration of Christmas with worship?
I worship God the Father in the name of Christ every single day.
This may be why people making their own day to celebrate the birth of Christ or charity or fat people or whatever does not bother me.
I don't consider Christmas to be related to worship.

Is Christmas factual, if Not then if falls into the category of falsehood.
Jesus said we are to worship ( or serve ) his God with ' truth ' ( Not just truth in general, but 'religious truth' as found in Scripture - John 17:17)
Thus, things that might Not bother some people could still bother God - Proverbs 6:17

 

[URAVIP2ME]

There's a great many things that we all do, including JW's, that are not mandated in scripture, so are all of those from "Babylon the Great" as well, thus to be avoided? Pictures in "Watchtower" magazine are a case in point, as is the fabricated name "Jehovah".
Also, "Babylon the Great" was a reference to the Roman Empire, and the Roman Empire has been gone for well over a thousand years. Also, Jesus said he'd guide his Church until the end of time, and yet the JW's are less than 200 years old, thus it certainly could not possibly pertain to them.

I'll start with the information given to us at Acts of the Apostles 20:28-30
We are informed that an apostasy would settle in after the apostles were gone.
Jesus liked this growing time to a coming 'Harvest Time' or the soon coming 'Time of Separating' as found at Matthew 25:31-33,37
Genuine 'wheat ' Christians could grow together over the centuries with the fake ' weed/tares' Christians - Matthew 13:24-30
So, genuine ' wheat Christians have been guided, and spiritual light grows brighter with time - see Proverbs 4:18.

Jehovah is the accepted English pronunciation of God's name (Tetragrammaton YHWH)
That 'old King James Bible' translates into English God's personal name at Psalms 83:18.
Why should one just use the Hebrew when other Bible names are translated into English.
I can't find anywhere where the Roman Empire was considered as some sort of 'Religious Queen' as per Revelation 18:7
When did the world's kings ( rulers ) commit fornication with the Roman Empire _____________ - Revelation 18:9

Using the process of elimination we find at Revelation 17:2 the political is in bed with Babylon the Great.
So, Babylon the Great can't be political ( The Roman Empire was political )
Then, we find the commercial world mourning the loss of Babylon the Great as per Revelation 18:11-15
So, Babylon the Great is Not the business men, they just mourn the loss of revenue they made off of Babylon the Great. ( including the X-mas revenue )

Remember: when the people migrated away from ancient Babylon (Tower of Babel) they took with them their false religious-myth ideas and practices and spread them world wide into a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Hey metis, hope you & your wife are well....

Also, "Babylon the Great" was a reference to the Roman Empire,

Just wanted to comment on this:
The Bible’s description of Babylon the Great, includes the statement at Revelation 18:24 New International Version,
“In her was found the blood of prophets and of God's holy people, of all who have been slaughtered on the earth."

This would exclude Rome or any world power. It goes far beyond any one singular entity, extant or ancient. Rather, it would apply to a composite group, ancient and new, that supports actions (like killing) & thinking that are in opposition to Jehovah God....a group entity like false religion.

 

[Zaha Torte]

Have you ever been to a mass? It's a serious religious service, not "fun", and the same is true with the "Mass of Christ" [aka "Christmas"].

I consider them both to be fun - just different kinds of fun.

I wouldn't consider them both to be worship though.

 

[Zaha Torte]

Right, the fake 'weed/tares' will Not agree with the genuine 'wheat' Christians.
Both grow together until the Harvest Time or the soon coming Time of Separation as found at Matthew 25:31-33,37.
If I was younger and you would pay my way (can't afford it ) I would gladly go to Japan.
It is Not that there are Not Christians in Japan, the good news of Matthew 24:14 is proclaimed there as it is here and elsewhere.
Missionaries have been sent to Japan for decades.
Exposure and accepting the Christmas lie appeals to the fake ' weed/tares ' form of Christianity ( aka Christendom )
I don't mean that as complaining but as scriptural fact.
Please notice the list of things God hates according to Proverbs 6:16-19 especially at verse 17.

I'm just grateful that they are getting planted in the field at all.

 

[Zaha Torte]

Is Christmas factual, if Not then if falls into the category of falsehood.
Jesus said we are to worship ( or serve ) his God with ' truth ' ( Not just truth in general, but 'religious truth' as found in Scripture - John 17:17)
Thus, things that might Not bother some people could still bother God - Proverbs 6:17

Yes - but if celebrating Christmas is not "worship" or serving God - then how would any of this apply?

 

[Martin]

I wonder if Christmas was banned, outlawed, then how many would openly celebrate it.____________
If celebrating meant being fined or jail time how many would stand up for their holy day of Christmas _____________

Where I live most people treat it as social/family thing, rather than as a religious thing. People would object strongly to Christmas being banned, but not for religious reasons.

 

[metis]

Fun's a relative term. I went to a mass once, just to see what it was.

It wasn't exhilarating, but it was certainly better than staying home and watching the family sit on their smartphones.

Amen to that.

 

[metis]

I'll start with the information given to us at Acts of the Apostles 20:28-30
We are informed that an apostasy would settle in after the apostles were gone.
Jesus liked this growing time to a coming 'Harvest Time' or the soon coming 'Time of Separating' as found at Matthew 25:31-33,37
Genuine 'wheat ' Christians could grow together over the centuries with the fake ' weed/tares' Christians - Matthew 13:24-30
So, genuine ' wheat Christians have been guided, and spiritual light grows brighter with time - see Proverbs 4:18.

Jehovah is the accepted English pronunciation of God's name (Tetragrammaton YHWH)
That 'old King James Bible' translates into English God's personal name at Psalms 83:18.
Why should one just use the Hebrew when other Bible names are translated into English.
I can't find anywhere where the Roman Empire was considered as some sort of 'Religious Queen' as per Revelation 18:7
When did the world's kings ( rulers ) commit fornication with the Roman Empire _____________ - Revelation 18:9

Using the process of elimination we find at Revelation 17:2 the political is in bed with Babylon the Great.
So, Babylon the Great can't be political ( The Roman Empire was political )
Then, we find the commercial world mourning the loss of Babylon the Great as per Revelation 18:11-15
So, Babylon the Great is Not the business men, they just mourn the loss of revenue they made off of Babylon the Great. ( including the X-mas revenue )

Remember: when the people migrated away from ancient Babylon (Tower of Babel) they took with them their false religious-myth ideas and practices and spread them world wide into a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great.

I've dealt with that nonsense before in previous conversations, as the Governing Body has basically convinced you of the above and you've swallowed it hook, line, & sinker. Based on what we know, the above literally makes no sense whatsoever.

Jesus said he'd guide the Church until the end of time through the Holy Spirit, and yet your GB has you believing that Jesus basically must have lied since the JW's are only a couple of hundred years old. Good luck with that "logic".

 

[metis]

Hey metis, hope you & your wife are well....


Just wanted to comment on this:
The Bible’s description of Babylon the Great, includes the statement at Revelation 18:24 New International Version,
“In her was found the blood of prophets and of God's holy people, of all who have been slaughtered on the earth."

This would exclude Rome or any world power. It goes far beyond any one singular entity, extant or ancient. Rather, it would apply to a composite group, ancient and new, that supports actions (like killing) & thinking that are in opposition to Jehovah God....a group entity like false religion.

We know what "Babylon the Great" meant as the Roman Empire fit hand & glove with what happened during the Babylonian Exile of five centuries previous. The feminine form for Babylon shows up in one of Peter's epistles, and that is a reference to the city of Rome.

Anyhow, thanks for the wishes, and I hope you & yours are doing well, so take care.

 

[metis]

I consider them both to be fun - just different kinds of fun.

I wouldn't consider them both to be worship though.

Believe in what you want.

 

[Glaurung]

Are there any Christians here who are also bothered by this? Do you think it's too childish or otherwise takes from the message/meaning?

No. Advent and Christmas is my favorite time of the liturgical year. Even if Easter if the holiest. I like Christmas trees, the midnight vigil on Christmas Eve, the lights and decorations people put on their houses, the winter imagery. (Despite the incongruence for me living in the southern hemisphere). To oppose the kitsch is to oppose fun in my view. To oppose Santa as a lie is to tilt at a windmill.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I'm just grateful that they are getting planted in the field at all.

And good reason to be grateful for trees being planted, but how many trees are planted in order to be sacrificed to Santa _____________

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yes - but if celebrating Christmas is not "worship" or serving God - then how would any of this apply?

Yes, Christmas is a form of worship/serving God, but it is false-un-biblical worship of serving God.
Some people know the origin of the so-called Christmas dates back to a time long before Christ.
So, some celebrate without any religious connection to Christ.
The Christmas decorations were later added and thus created a fusion or a mixing of the true with the false ( the non-biblical ) .

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I
Jesus said he'd guide the Church until the end of time through the Holy Spirit, and yet your GB has you believing that Jesus basically must have lied since the JW's are only a couple of hundred years old. Good luck with that "logic".

In history we find many who died faithful for their belief in Christ .
If you read Acts of the Apostles 20:28-30 you will find that gospel writer Luke forewarned that an apostasy would set in after the apostles were gone.
Fake ' weed/tares' Christians would grow together over the many centuries with the genuine ' wheat ' Christians - Matthew chapter 13
Notice how long they would grow together. They would grow together until the: Harvest Time.
A harvest comes at a conclusion of a growing season, so easily a couple of hundred years can be found at these end times of badness on Earth.
Matthew 13:24 Jesus is the sower
Fine seed is sown (disciples )
The field meaning: the global world of mankind.
Matthew 13:25
While men were spiritually sleeping, Jesus enemy came and over sowed with 'weed/tares'.
Roots become intertwined making it impossible to remove the weeds without harming the wheat, loosing the wheat.
However, once matured it is easy to distinguish and then remove the weed/tares.
Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the Harvest Time ( conclusion of this world of badness )
The 'wheat ' are the genuine Christians.
The ' weed/tares' are the imitation Christians.
The angels are the Harvest Reapers.
Imitation Christian are separated from the genuine ' wheat '.
The gathering into the storehouse would mean gathered into the Christian congregation.
- www.jw.org

 

[URAVIP2ME]

We know what "Babylon the Great" meant as the Roman Empire fit hand & glove with what happened during the Babylonian Exile of five centuries previous. The feminine form for Babylon shows up in one of Peter's epistles, and that is a reference to the city of Rome.

I find the Babylon of Revelation is set in future tense - Revelation 1:10.
The LORD's Day was Not in the Babylonian exile time, but future tense for our day or time frame.
Revelation basically means a revealing, the Bible book of Revelation is about a revealing, Not of the past, but a happy future climax - Revelation 22:2.
Follow the process of elimination as found in the 17th and 18th chapters of Revelation. Notice how international in scope Babylon the Great is:
1) Earth's kings ( rulers ) commit fornication with Babylon the Great. - Revelation 17:1-2
So. we are Not speaking about anything political.

2) Earth's merchants ( businessmen ) mourn the loss of Babylon the Great.
So, Babylon the Great is Not commercial businessmen. They mourn the loss of revenue (profit) they made off of her - Revelation 18:3; Revelation 18:9-11

3) Religion is also international in scope as are the political and business world.
Religion feels secure in her place ( the religious ' queen ' of Revelation 18:7)
So, this 'queen' is Not just going to fade away as she has tried to attempt to bend kings ( earth's rulers ) to do her will.
Rather, earth's kings ( rulers ) will surprisingly turn their backs on her destroying her religious influence over people.

 

[metis]

In history we find many who died faithful for their belief in Christ .
If you read Acts of the Apostles 20:28-30 you will find that gospel writer Luke forewarned that an apostasy would set in after the apostles were gone.
Fake ' weed/tares' Christians would grow together over the many centuries with the genuine ' wheat ' Christians - Matthew chapter 13
Notice how long they would grow together. They would grow together until the: Harvest Time.
A harvest comes at a conclusion of a growing season, so easily a couple of hundred years can be found at these end times of badness on Earth.
Matthew 13:24 Jesus is the sower
Fine seed is sown (disciples )
The field meaning: the global world of mankind.
Matthew 13:25
While men were spiritually sleeping, Jesus enemy came and over sowed with 'weed/tares'.
Roots become intertwined making it impossible to remove the weeds without harming the wheat, loosing the wheat.
However, once matured it is easy to distinguish and then remove the weed/tares.
Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the Harvest Time ( conclusion of this world of badness )
The 'wheat ' are the genuine Christians.
The ' weed/tares' are the imitation Christians.
The angels are the Harvest Reapers.
Imitation Christian are separated from the genuine ' wheat '.
The gathering into the storehouse would mean gathered into the Christian congregation.
- www.jw.org

Since you didn't answer my question dealing with Jesus' promise about guiding his Church until the end of times, which clearly shows the JW teaching must be wrong, there's no where to go with this.

 

[metis]

I find the Babylon of Revelation is set in future tense - Revelation 1:10.
The LORD's Day was Not in the Babylonian exile time, but future tense for our day or time frame.

Basically it's put in the form of a flashback looking forward to the time of the latter 1st century since Revelation has a late writing. We know this was the interpretation back then because of the effect of telling the Church to persevere under their onslaught by the Romans, which included Nero and Tacitus, thus being a message of hope that carried through into the 2nd century and later generations. Even the "666" was put in those terms since it tells the people then that you will know him using those numbers to stand for his name (and the variation being "616") written to the people back then. Most theologians I have read are convinced that those two numbers could only refer to one person: Caesar Nero, who's name, in that variation, fits into both numbers.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Since you didn't answer my question dealing with Jesus' promise about guiding his Church until the end of times, which clearly shows the JW teaching must be wrong, there's no where to go with this.

I wonder what you find at www.jw.org that leads you to conclude that Jesus' promise is Not a belief of Jehovah's Witnesses ___________