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Do some people take life to serious?

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
True, but not just live with it but accept it.
I think we can accept things about ourselves but we have to be careful about accepting things in our lives.
We should think about changing if it is possible and necessary to change things.
This is quite a complicated question. Suffice to say, psychological issues are ones that are usually self inflicted by some copying mechanism formed out of necessity. If it is a neurological disorder then it needs to be diagnosed. Even so, mental health is vital in everyone, not just people who do or don't have disorders.
Agreed.
Sometimes fixing is the accepting and sometimes there is no fixing. Nonetheless, you might find if someone accepts who they are, they may find they don't need a fix :p
True, but something in their life might need a fix. :rolleyes:
We cannot change the past but our identity is formed from our past. The past is part of us. As much as I love logic, the logical brain does not control the emotional side. In fact, it's reversed. The emotional side requires a non-judgemental and safe place for it maturely develop. You cannot ignore your emotional just as you cannot ignore your past.
No you can't ignore the emotional side because it will getcha in the end... I can give you numerous examples of people like that.
People will always change in some manner, but no one needs to be changed. The whole point is accepting who you are.
Agreed.
What you need may be different from what you desire. However, it's important not to shun or ignore either of them.
True because what you desire will getcha in the end if you ignore it. :eek:
 

charlie sc

Well-Known Member
I think we can accept things about ourselves but we have to be careful about accepting things in our lives.
Can you expound on this?

We should think about changing if it is possible and necessary to change things.
We're speaking quite generally and vaguely here. nevertheless, I find the people who need change the most are people who need significant others or carers/guardians to stop enabling them. Sometimes change comes when the old coping mechanism cannot work anymore. In other words, they need to hit rock bottom.

True, but something in their life might need a fix. :rolleyes:
Yes.

No you can't ignore the emotional side because it will getcha in the end... I can give you numerous examples of people like that.
Ya, give me examples :)
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Can you expound on this?
Sure. I mean for example accepting my life situation which has spiraled out of control. I FEEL like just giving up because it is so hopeless, but if I give up it will only get worse. I am not referring to my relationships, I am referring to my houses and yards. Tenants are part of the problem, but that is only because I have a responsibility to them. I am on very good terms with my tenants at both houses, but they take advantage of me, so I have to set better limits.
We're speaking quite generally and vaguely here. nevertheless, I find the people who need change the most are people who need significant others or carers/guardians to stop enabling them. Sometimes change comes when the old coping mechanism cannot work anymore. In other words, they need to hit rock bottom.
I am sorry I was being so vague. When I said "We should think about changing if it is possible and necessary to change things" I was referring to my life situation, not to any psychological or relationship problems I have. But you are right about coping mechanisms. I have used avoidance as a coping mechanism but I am getting close to rock bottom with these houses I own. ALL my problems in life are because of theses houses. In the past all my problems were because of all the cats we have, but now it is the houses. It is just too much to handle. Yet I do not think that running away from the problems by selling is the answer. I am not one to give up, but I do avoid certain things when I cannot deal with them.
I said: "No you can't ignore the emotional side because it will getcha in the end... I can give you numerous examples of people like that."

You said: "Ya, give me examples :)"
What I was thinking about when I wrote that are some nonbelievers I post to on other forums who get all emotional about God and what God should be doing instead of what God does, and they think they are being rational. :rolleyes:
But also what comes to mind are people like me who ignore their emotions and deny any desires they might have for God and other people. The way that gets me is that I end up blaming God for it, as we discussed before. I do not usually blame other people because I realize that I allowed them to push me around so it is not all their fault, although they are also responsible. ;)

That brings to mind something I am dealing with. I should probably start a new thread about free will but I do not have time for that right now. An atheist who I have been posting to on other forums off and on for about five years insists we have no free will. He said today "Bottom line: we either do what we want to do (and we have no control over what we prefer), or we do, not what we want to do, but what we are forced to do. Thus free will is an illusion -- just a lame excuse."

What do you think? If we do what we want to do isn't that a choice?
If I have no free will then I am not responsible for what has happened to my houses and yards because I preferred to neglect them and I had no control over that. If my tenants have no free will then they are not responsible for trying to take advantage of me; they preferred to do that and they had no control over that. Moreover, if nobody has any free will then nobody is responsible for committing crimes and the whole justice system is a sham.
 

charlie sc

Well-Known Member
Sure. I mean for example accepting my life situation which has spiraled out of control. I FEEL like just giving up because it is so hopeless, but if I give up it will only get worse. I am not referring to my relationships, I am referring to my houses and yards. Tenants are part of the problem, but that is only because I have a responsibility to them. I am on very good terms with my tenants at both houses, but they take advantage of me, so I have to set better limits.
If you're setting limits and boundaries, why is it spiralling out of control?

ALL my problems in life are because of theses houses.
How is owning houses causing problems?

all my problems were because of all the cats we have
You must have had a lot of cats.

Yet I do not think that running away from the problems by selling is the answer. I am not one to give up, but I do avoid certain things when I cannot deal with them.
I assume this is your livelihood. If it's causing you constant distress why continue it unless you know what the underlining problem is and can fix it? I mean, do you want to be a landlord?

I do not usually blame other people because I realize that I allowed them to push me around so it is not all their fault, although they are also responsible. ;)
Why don't you defend yourself in the way that you really want to?

What do you think? If we do what we want to do isn't that a choice?
I think the word and idea is too convoluted to have a meaningful conversation. People mean it differently under different contexts. As a philosophical concept it's interesting but when religions use free-will they insert numerous presuppositions that I find ridiculous and not worth conversation, because there's never any discussions how deep routed presuppositions have become in this topic.

To answer though, if we do what we want to do they'll most likely be choices.

If I have no free will then I am not responsible for what has happened to my houses and yards because I preferred to neglect them and I had no control over that.
Let's assume there's no free-will. You chose not to look after the houses and yards. Then, you are responsible for the disrepair. No free-will does not mean no one is responsible.

If my tenants have no free will then they are not responsible for trying to take advantage of me; they preferred to do that and they had no control over that.
Let's assume no one has free-will. If they are taking advantage of you and they have the choice to act otherwise, what can you do to change this? If they are taking advantage of you and they don't have the tools or ability to act otherwise, what can you do to change this? This is why boundaries are necessary in all walks of life. You give options and consequences. It doesn't have to be more complicated than this, but we make it complicated because of our past.

Moreover, if nobody has any free will then nobody is responsible for committing crimes and the whole justice system is a sham.
Yes and no. The assumption is that punitive treatments of wrongdoers actually helps. However, if the punitive system only reinforces their behaviour and thinking style, then what's the point of it all? If we assume no-free will exists, then it'll be good to understand what brought them to the wrongdoing act in the first place. Assuming they could have acted different is exactly that - assuming. Consider that they couldn't have acted different. If they cannot change then they have to stay where they are. It's human nature to want to inflict the same suffering on those that have caused the suffering. However, the best revenge someone can get is to actually live a happy life.

If people can be good then we don't need a justice system, but they'll always be wrongdoers. The question then become how can we make people the best they can be? Is that the idea that people could have chosen differently or giving them the opportunity to choose differently? This is purely speaking from a justice point of view, but you aren't in the justice business. So, you still need consequences for actions, but you are in no way obligated nor do I think you should attempt to implement your own justice.
 
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Scott C.

Just one guy
To follow a spiritual path can sometimes lead a person to be to serious about life ( I been there)
But may it be that we need to stop being afraid of doing wrong, and if we do wrong learn from it, instead of becoming to serious about it and actually fear our own faults?

My newfound joy in life is seeing life in a more happy way (living in the moment). Laugh of my own "stuid" way of being from time to time, and when someone have fun toward me, to smile and have fun back :)

Life is actually really fun when you let go of the fear of doing something wrong.

I'm a believing practicing member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. When I was younger, say in my 20's, I took my desire to be good too seriously. I was preoccupied with controlling my thoughts, my words, and my actions, and repenting when I made a mistake. I obsessed over it. Only after many years and experiences did I learn to lighten up. I still try to do the right thing and I still repent. But I go easier on myself and I believe I am more in line now with what the Lord expects than I was back then. So I think I agree with you, unless you mean we should drop all moral restraint and party harty guilt free. I don't believe that. (I don't think you believe that either).
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
If you're setting limits and boundaries, why is it spiralling out of control?
What has spiraled out of control is the situation at my own house, because there was so much that had to be done at the rental and there are only so many hours in a day. NowI have to tend to my own house and get things back under control.
How is owning houses causing problems?
Ever have three houses? My husband hardly does any work around our house, just takes care of the cats and sweeps occasionally and does dishes. He stopped doing any lawn mowing three years ago when he retired. Maybe I should have picked up the ball, but why should I when I am working full time and I take care of the two rentals?

One of the rentals had massive water damage so it needed a lot of work and the last tenant left a mess so it had to be all cleaned up. That tenant proceeded to sue me for damages so I had to turn it over to my insurance company as a liability claim, and that is still hanging over my head. I now have a new tenant in the house and the house is really starting to get back in shape, almost everything it needed has been done. That tenant is paying rent so that is promising. The new tenant is going to be long-term so I am trying to do whatever I can to make her happy, but I have to set limits because she is quite demanding, wanting things that landlords are not required by law to provide.

The other rental needs work too, although it can wait since he is behind on rent, so I am not obligated by law to fix anything. That tenant is not demanding at all because he knows he is behind on rent and that I will get to the repairs as soon as I can. Today he said I would be getting a payment soon and I believe him because he is honest. He is a long-term tenant, has been there for over six years and never plans to move, so I cut him slack.
You must have had a lot of cats.
At one time about 15 years ago we had 23 cats, all Persians, so that is a lot of work. Sadly, many of them passed away, so we now only have 10 cats, and that seems like no cats at all.
I assume this is your livelihood. If it's causing your constant distress why continue it unless you know what the underlining problem is and can fix it? I mean, do you want to be a landlord?
No, it is not my livelihood, the rentals are just for extra income. I do know what the problems are, as noted above, and I am proceeding to fix them. I have the money so that is not an issue, time and finding contractors or handymen I trust to do the work is the issue.

Whether I want to be a landlord is a loaded question. Yes and no. I do not mind working with tenants who pay the rent and treat me with dignity and respect. It is the tenants who try to take advantage of me and the home repairs that are stressful.

Then I have to ask myself if I sold the rentals what would I do with the money? I also have to ask what I would be doing with the time they require if I did not have the rentals. It is not like I would be traveling, as my husband does not want to go anywhere, and we have the 10 cats, so that makes travel next to impossible. So I figure I might as well keep the rentals and work through the issues they have. Once the houses have all the repairs completed and tenants are paying rent then it is not a lot of work or stress to have the rentals, so that is my goal. There will always be repairs here and there but nothing like what I have had to deal with lately. When it rains it pours.
Why don't you defend yourself in the way that you really want to?
I have learned to do that with the tenants but when I do that with my husband it just turns into a fight because he always gets defensive. If I complain about anything at all he thinks I am saying he is a bad person because that is how he feels about himself. He says he is doing the best he can, so what can I do about that?I cannot make him do anything he does not want to do, so I will have to hire someone to do that work. He considers changing a light bulb a huge accomplishment. If I ever get married again he will have to be a handyman. :rolleyes:
I think the word and idea is too convoluted to have a meaningful conversation. People mean it differently under different contexts. As a philosophical concept it's interesting but when religions use free-will they insert numerous presuppositions that I find ridiculous and not worth conversation, because there's never any discussions how deep routed presuppositions have become in this topic.

To answer though, if we do what we want to do they'll most likely be choices.
Yes, free will means different things to different people. I think this atheists thinks I am saying he has a choice so he can believe in God, but that is not what I am saying.

Yes, if we do what we WANT to do those will be choices and that is all I mean by free will, choosing to do what we want to do. We cannot always do what we want to do, because other people and life circumstances preclude that, so then we make another choice. Moreover, what we want to do is determined by what we are thinking at any given time, so the only way we would make a different choice under the same circumstances is if we changed how we think. Otherwise,we will just keep doing what we have always done.
Let's assume there's no free-will. You chose not to look after the houses and yards. Then, you are responsible for the disrepair. No free-will does not mean no one is responsible.
If I chose not to look after the houses and yards, I had to use free will to choose, so I am responsible for the disrepair.
Let's assume no one has free-will. If they are taking advantage of you and they have the choice to act otherwise, what can you do to change this? If they are taking advantage of you and don't have the tools or ability to act otherwise, what can you do to change this? This is why boundaries are necessary in all walks of life. You give options and consequences. It doesn't have to be more complicated than this, but we make it complicated because of our past.
If they are taking advantage of me and they have the choice to act otherwise that means they are free to act otherwise so they have free will. That is exactly what I do with the tenants, I set boundaries by giving them options and consequences. That works with the tenants I have now because they know I am the one who owns the houses and they know I am being fair. That does not work with my husband because he does not think I am being fair to ask him to do anything he is not presently doing. He has convinced himself he cannot do any more than he is doing. If I ask him to do something he does not think he can do he gets anxious and/or angry. He does not even realize he is angry when he is angry but later he apologizes. This is a cyclical thing. I know it is going to happen so I hardly ever ask him to do anything.

This is not just a pattern with me, it also happened to him at work, and that is essentially why he lost his job. He got angry at the boss and then it just went from bad to worse after that. All this was precipitated by her asking him to do work that he did not think he could do. But his boss was not as tolerant as I am and she did not have to be because she was the boss.

I do not have these problems with anyone else except my husband so logically speaking that tells me it is not me who has the problem.
Yes and no. The assumption is that punitive treatments of wrongdoers actually helps. However, if the punitive system only reinforces their behaviour and thinking style, then what's the point of it all?
The point of punishment for crimes is because that is in accordance with justice and fairness to everyone involved. Moreover, punishment or fear of punishment is a deterrent. If there were no consequences for criminal behavior there would be a lot more crimes committed.

The justice system is not for the purpose of helping the offender, although the justice system should incorporate rehabilitation since some criminals can be rehabilitated.
If we assume no-free will exists, then it'll be good to understand what brought them to the wrongdoing act in the first place. Assuming they could have acted different is exactly that - assuming. Consider that they couldn't have acted different. If they cannot change then they have to stay where they are. It's human nature to want to inflict the same suffering on those that have caused the suffering. However, the best revenge someone can get is to actually live a happy life.
But we cannot assume no free will exists because it makes no sense. If no free will exists that is like saying nobody is responsible for anything they chose to do.Even if they do have free will that does not mean they could have acted differently, because free will has constraints. Even in the presence of free will, it is important to determine what brought them to the behavior.

Any kind of punishment should not be for revenge, it should be for the sake of justice. The justice system does not seek revenge, the victims do that. The justice system needs to remain objective and dole out punishments that suit the crimes.
If people can be good then we don't need a justice system, but they'll always be wrongdoers. The question then become how can we make people the best they can be? Is that the idea that people could have chosen differently or giving them the opportunity to choose differently. This is purely speaking from a justice point of view, but you aren't in the justice business. So, you still need consequences for actions.
I think it is better to assume they could have chosen differently even if we do not know that, and it is better for the criminal to think that they had a choice, because that is empowering. Only if they understand that they could have chosen differently will they ever change and choose differently the next time.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I'm a believing practicing member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. When I was younger, say in my 20's, I took my desire to be good too seriously. I was preoccupied with controlling my thoughts, my words, and my actions, and repenting when I made a mistake. I obsessed over it. Only after many years and experiences did I learn to lighten up. I still try to do the right thing and I still repent. But I go easier on myself and I believe I am more in line now with what the Lord expects than I was back then. So I think I agree with you, unless you mean we should drop all moral restraint and party harty guilt free. I don't believe that. (I don't think you believe that either).
The meaning with my OP is that even we take our spiritual practice very seriously, with morality, and the guidelines from the spiritual path, we are also able to enjoy life to the fullest when we are with riends or family. ( i was a very borning person to be with before) But i learned to relax, yes still noticing when i was about to do something that go against the spiritual path, but also not being afraid of doing wrong.
 

charlie sc

Well-Known Member
now only have 10 cats, and that seems like no cats at all.
It's still a lot of cats. Jesus.

It is the tenants who try to take advantage of me and the home repairs that are stressful.
Then you need to work on yourself more and learn how to set boundaries but also firmly implement them without getting too emotional or avoiding the issue altogether.

because he always gets defensive.
You both need to express how you feel for better or worse. If either of you can't do it, then couples counselling is my suggestion. I'm not being sarcastic here, but you usually start with, "I feel _____some emotion(e.g.anger)___, because of this and this." However, if it turns to blame then it won't work. So, for example. There's a difference between blaming and expressing. (expressing) I feel sad because this happens or you said this and that made me angry vs (blame) you never do anything, I do everything, you never this, what did you do?, you're hopeless, etc. Only talk about emotion then solutions later.

so logically speaking that tells me it is not me who has the problem.
Assuming you chose him, stayed with him and have known he's had problems, then you need to ask yourself why did you stay. If one person has emotional problems in a relationship it's more likely the other person does as well. It may by no means be as severe but the very fact you stay with someone with problems and where your needs are not satisfied, means it's most likely a co-dependant relationship.

Then I have to ask myself if I sold the rentals what would I do with the money? I also have to ask what I would be doing with the time they require if I did not have the rentals.
From cats, husband, houses and forums, it seems like you're trying to keep busy. I think you need to ask yourself, what do you really want to do?

I think it is better to assume they could have chosen differently even if we do not know that, and it is better for the criminal to think that they had a choice, because that is empowering.
Yes, I agree. However, this is not what the thought of free-will does. What is does is put blame, shame, and punish individuals that could not have chosen otherwise because of their upbringing and circumstances. The rest of society will treat them differently and they will stay in the same mind-set.

I've noticed blame is a fairly common theme for you.
 
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Trailblazer

Veteran Member
It's still a lot of cats. Jesus.
10 cats does seem like a lot of cats to most people but everything is relative.
Then you need to work on yourself more and learn how to set boundaries but also firmly implement them without getting too emotional or avoiding the issue altogether.
I am doing okay with the tenants, it is the home repairs that are difficult. How do you really know who you can trust until you have used a contractor or handyman?
You both need to express how you feel for better or worse. If either of you can't do it, then couples counselling is my suggestion. I'm not being sarcastic here, but you usually start with, "I feel _____some emotion(e.g.anger)___, because of this and this." However, if it turns to blame then it won't work. So, for example. There's a difference between blaming and expressing. (expressing) I feel sad because this happens or you said this and that made me angry vs (blame) you never do anything, I do everything, you never this, what did you do?, you're hopeless, etc. Only talk about emotion then solutions later.
I make a concerted effort not to blame him but rather just explain how I feel about our life situation, but he assumes I am blaming him for it. Maybe he senses I do blame him for some things like not doing more work around the house and yard because he knows I am unhappy about that situation since I think he could do more, but maybe he can’t do more. He has told me he feels guilty so that is part of the problem, he thinks I am blaming him because he blames himself.

I also feel guilty for letting things get this bad so I blame myself, but I do not think that I should take all the blame so I guess that is why I want him to take some responsibility for it. I know blaming is not good, but both of us had mothers who blamed us for everything so that is how we ended up like this. Understanding where it comes from helps but it does not completely solve the problem, as these feelings are deeply rooted.
Assuming you chose him, stayed with him and have known he's had problems, then you need to ask yourself why did you stay. If one person has emotional problems in a relationship it's more likely the other person does as well. It may by no means be as severe but the very fact you stay with someone with problems and where your needs are not satisfied, means it's most likely a co-dependant relationship.
We both have emotional problems when we got married but I worked on them a lot more than he did in counseling and 12 step programs. We got married three weeks after we met and we have been married 34 years. We do bicker but we are both under a lot of stress. We have the love for cats and the Baha’i Faith in common, so those are binding ties. Neither one of us has many needs because we care more about the cats and the Baha’i Faith than ourselves; that is something we have in common. We also have in common that we do not think we deserve anything for ourselves, which is why neither one of us even bothers to think about what we want.

I know all about codependency. I went to CODA meetings twice weekly for about seven years and he went with me most of the time, that in addition to counseling.
From cats, husband, houses and forums, it seems like you're trying to keep busy. I think you need to ask yourself, what do you really want to do?
Right now I am doing what I need to do, later I will think about what I want to do. I got a handyman to come and take down all the blackberry bushes and vegetation at our house today and he is also going to take care of our plumbing problems and our fence and other things... There will be more for him to do after that but he is giving me good prices and he seems trustworthy, so I am happy about that. This has been a long time coming. Our entire back yard was over grown with blackberry bushes. I used to be able to see the hot tub that we never used but it was completely overgrown with those bushes… This is Western Washington so everything grows like wildfire.
Yes, I agree. However, this is not what the thought of free-will does. What is does is put blame, shame, and punish individuals that could not have chosen otherwise because of their upbringing and circumstances. The rest of society will treat them differently and they will stay in the same mind-set.

I've noticed blame is a fairly common theme for you.
If free will exists, it exists. Clearly we have a will because if we had no will we would not be able to do anything at all. To will something is to intend, desire, or wish (something) to happen. How “free” we are to use that will to believe or do certain things is another matter. I do not think that we can believe or do “anything” we want to do. The choices we make are constrained by many factors such as childhood upbringing, heredity, education, adult experiences, and present life circumstances. These all affect how we think and how we think affects how we act.

I do not think that there is anyone could not have chosen otherwise because of their upbringing and circumstances. They might have thought they had no choice but that is another matter.

Blame is still a theme for me but it is not nearly as bad as it used to be. I have made a lot of progress. Moreover, I usually blame myself a lot more than I blame anybody else.
 

charlie sc

Well-Known Member
10 cats does seem like a lot of cats to most people but everything is relative.
If you're ok with 10 cats then that's fine. My ex had cats and they started accumulating. She wanted cats so she could stop the loneliness and because should thought they'd never leave her.

I make a concerted effort not to blame him but rather just explain how I feel about our life situation, but he assumes I am blaming him for it. Maybe he senses I do blame him for some things like not doing more work around the house and yard because he knows I am unhappy about that situation since I think he could do more, but maybe he can’t do more. He has told me he feels guilty so that is part of the problem, he thinks I am blaming him because he blames himself.
This is why you both have to talk about your and his emotions. If neither of you know how each other feels, how can anything be solved?

I also feel guilty for letting things get this bad so I blame myself, but I do not think that I should take all the blame so I guess that is why I want him to take some responsibility for it. I know blaming is not good, but both of us had mothers who blamed us for everything so that is how we ended up like this. Understanding where it comes from helps but it does not completely solve the problem, as these feelings are deeply rooted.
Yes, I think so too. Blaming yourself is probably one of the worst things possible you could do to yourself and it's also a double edged sword.

We both have emotional problems when we got married but I worked on them a lot more than he did in counseling and 12 step programs.
Usually females are better at emotional intelligence. If you are emotionally developing and he is not, then you need to take note of that.

We have the love for cats and the Baha’i Faith in common, so those are binding ties. Neither one of us has many needs because we care more about the cats and the Baha’i Faith than ourselves; that is something we have in common.
Why do you love the cats more than yourselves?

We also have in common that we do not think we deserve anything for ourselves, which is why neither one of us even bothers to think about what we want.
This is maybe something to think about. You may have wants but you don't know what they are, yet.

Right now I am doing what I need to do, later I will think about what I want to do. I got a handyman to come and take down all the blackberry bushes and vegetation at our house today and he is also going to take care of our plumbing problems and our fence and other things... There will be more for him to do after that but he is giving me good prices and he seems trustworthy, so I am happy about that. This has been a long time coming. Our entire back yard was over grown with blackberry bushes. I used to be able to see the hot tub that we never used but it was completely overgrown with those bushes… This is Western Washington so everything grows like wildfire.
I've noticed that you have difficulty differentiating between hardships in life vs emotional turmoil. People may have many hardships in life but stay content. However, someone may have few hardships or many and be miserable. I've noticed you tend to use the two interchangeable as if they're the same thing or similar. At one instance you're talking about your relationship with your husband and the next weeds and bushes. I've noticed this in quite a few posts. Why do you think you do that?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
If you're ok with 10 cats then that's fine. My ex had cats and they started accumulating. She wanted cats so she could stop the loneliness and because should thought they'd never leave her.
Well, cats are good company but that is a double-edged sword because cats usually die before we do. So the irony is that they DO leave us. If one does not want to be lonely it would have been better to have children because they usually outlive their parents.

I have never been lonely but that is not because of the cats. I really do not need people or animals around in order to not be lonely. I like being alone and I never get lonely because my mind is always active.

I love all animals. The cats are better company than people because people just chat about the most trivial things. At least cats do not talk, they are just there. I do not mind talking to people about things that matter, like on these forums, but I am not going to waste my precious time talking about houses, cars, vacations, clothes, hairdos, food, and all the materialistic things people talk about... bor-ing.
This is why you both have to talk about your and his emotions. If neither of you know how each other feels, how can anything be solved?
That’s correct. I talk to him about my emotions all the time so he has a pretty good idea how I feel about everything. He is the one who won’t open up. I guess it is a trust issue and he has said as much. It is like pulling teeth to get him to talk about how he feels. In one breath he says he is in physical and psychic pain, and then he says he is just fine, that nothing is really wrong. Those two states of mind are contradictory so what am I to do with that?

I think he is unhappy with our lifestyle but he never thinks about what he could do to change it, he just keeps doing the same things over and over again. Granted there is not that much we can do to change our lifestyle right now, but we could do small things, like going out to eat or for a drive. It’s not like we are on a budget, we have lots of money. I am no help because I do not do anything different either, but at least I think about it and hope for it, whereas he is just settled into a routine.
Yes, I think so too. Blaming yourself is probably one of the worst things possible you could do to yourself and it's also a double edged sword.
I know that blaming myself is not good, but don’t you think that is better than blaming others? I am getting better at not blaming myself and I think that is because I do not really feel guilty like I used to because I think I am doing the best I can with my difficult living situation. But I still do blame myself and it is usually related to something happening to an animal. I will even blame myself if a bird gets hurt and I cannot save him. But really, whose fault is it if I did everything I could DO to save him?

This might sound silly to you as an atheist, but I think it is really God’s fault that wild animals die, because that is how God set up the Creation. So much for the loving God. :(
Usually females are better at emotional intelligence. If you are emotionally developing and he is not, then you need to take note of that.
I am always emotionally and mentally developing, but I have no idea what goes on in his head most of the time. The only time I find anything out is when we have a fight and things get revealed.

Actually, he is much more emotional than I am, and that’s the problem. I am very analytical and logical so it is difficult for me to deal with his emotions when he is irrational. Mostly it is just anxiety, but it is over things that don’t really matter, like he misplaced something or he thinks he has so much to do and not enough time to do it. I cannot make him understand that whatever it was it will turn up and even if it doesn’t it is not the end of the world. I cannot make him understand he has plenty of time. I am the one who has little time. He just gets argumentative when I point these things out even when I am nice in doing so.

I have anxiety too, but it is related to being in cars in traffic and things happening to animals and these are real fears over things that matter. I have a reason to be afraid in cars, the way many people drive, and I have a reason to be afraid of animals getting sick and dying given how many cats we have lost.
Why do you love the cats more than yourselves?
Now, that is a loaded question, and I can only speak for myself. It is not my belief that I should love myself, although I think it is okay to take care of my basic needs and maybe have some fun once in a while.I do not buy psychological theory that loving oneself is a good thing because that goes against my religious beliefs that say that we should love God and others more than ourselves.

Self-care is one thing, but I believe that selfishness is the root of all evil. True happiness does not come from fulfilling one’s selfish desires; physical pleasure and material happiness are fleeting. Connections with people is meaningful and it promotes spiritual growth but I do not consider socializing connecting if all people talk about is superficial things.
This is maybe something to think about. You may have wants but you don't know what they are, yet.
I have some wants that I know about but they are not needs, so that is why they fall by the wayside. However, if I had more free time I could be doing some things I used to do that I am not doing now. Just going out to eat once in a while would be something different, and I know I could get my husband on board with that. I also like to travel but I cannot see us going together because someone has to take care of the cats. We used to hire a pet sitter but now we also have outdoor animals and birds we feed, so I cannot expect a pet sitter to do all of that.

I guess if I was motivated enough I could find someone, but right now I am too busy with other things. I have it in my mind that I might take a trip by myself, but I do not like driving or flying, so I would go on Amtrak. I have several atheist friends I met on forums and they all live near one another in the Midwest, and I told them that eventually I will come over and meet them. They have all been retired for years. I used to travel alone before I got married so it is no big deal. My husband would not care if I left him at home, he has plenty to do and he has his routine. Neither one of us wants to leave the cats but he worries more about that than I do. When we used to have only four cats, we took them with us on trips, so that solved the problem.
I've noticed that you have difficulty differentiating between hardships in life vs emotional turmoil. People may have many hardships in life but stay content. However, someone may have few hardships or many and be miserable.
People vary in their hereditary constitution. I have a predisposition to anxiety and depression since both my parents had these and my sister and brother also had these conditions. My brother has managed it with natural remedies but my mother and sister were on antidepressants. My father had all kinds of coping mechanisms; drinking, smoking and overeating as well as collecting things. He died in 1964, before antidepressants were in common use. Many years ago, I took psychotropic drugs but then I went for homeopathic treatment and never needed drugs again. Another way I deal with my feelings is that I write, as you can see.

I do not think that most people have had the hardships or the emotional turmoil I have had in my life. You do not even know the half of it. I know how most people live because I have worked in an office with people from 42 years.

For those who do have hardships, I think one big reason most people can cope with hardships is because they have family and friends. I have opted out of having children and all my family except my brother are deceased. I could have more friends if I wanted them, but that is yet another responsibility. It is much easier to have my friends on forums rather than in person. That could change when I am ready to change it, after I retire and have more time.

Another way people cope with hardships is to grab onto the material world and all it has to offer. They buy stuff, eat, drink, have sex, go on vacations, etc. They use these things to cope, but I do not want to live for the world because I lived that way for years and I now know it brings no true happiness. Besides that, living that way is the opposite of what Baha’u’llah has enjoined me to do. I am either going to be a Baha’i or not, I cannot be a hypocrite.
I've noticed you tend to use the two interchangeable as if they're the same thing or similar. At one instance you're talking about your relationship with your husband and the next weeds and bushes. I've noticed this in quite a few posts. Why do you think you do that?
I am very tangential in my thinking so that is why I jump all over the board, but also I have a lot going on and these things are related to one another. My husband should be happy that the handyman just did all the yard work I had wanted him to do and the plumbing. There is a list of additional things the handyman is going to do and I know I will feel a whole lot better once some of these things are done. My physical environment has a big effect upon my mood because I am very visual. I can imagine myself being much happier in a spiffy condo but we have to have the house because of the cats. But would I really be happier? The grass is always greener on the other side. ;)

I probably sound unhappier than I really am because of course I am talking about my problems, not the good things in my life. I really do not have anything to complain about because I am very well off financially, I have perfect heath, a stable marriage, a job that I like, and I could retire right now if I wanted to.

As I think I told you before, it is the houses that have caused most my grief. I let them go because I was spending too much time on forums, but now I have finally decided to cut back how many posts I engender so I can take care of the houses and yards. The two tenants I have now are long term and I have a good working relationship with them, so I do not see myself having any problems with them. As such, my life has the potential to stabilize, but I live one day at a time and rarely think about the future.I do the best I can and deal with whatever happens as it comes along.
 

charlie sc

Well-Known Member
like being alone and I never get lonely because my mind is always active.
Then you are truly unique. I can become quite a recluse sometimes and even then I need some form of social company.

That’s correct. I talk to him about my emotions all the time so he has a pretty good idea how I feel about everything. He is the one who won’t open up. I guess it is a trust issue and he has said as much. It is like pulling teeth to get him to talk about how he feels. In one breath he says he is in physical and psychic pain, and then he says he is just fine, that nothing is really wrong. Those two states of mind are contradictory so what am I to do with that?

I think he is unhappy with our lifestyle but he never thinks about what he could do to change it, he just keeps doing the same things over and over again. Granted there is not that much we can do to change our lifestyle right now, but we could do small things, like going out to eat or for a drive. It’s not like we are on a budget, we have lots of money. I am no help because I do not do anything different either, but at least I think about it and hope for it, whereas he is just settled into a routine.
It's so important to talk about emotions, especially in a romantic relationship. However, you cannot force someone to express themselves.

know that blaming myself is not good, but don’t you think that is better than blaming others?
I think they happen together whether we realise it or not. Both are bad and I won't say which one is worse, because I don't know. However, they tend to happen at the same time and that's the reason I say it's a double edged sword. That little voice that blames you or other people cannot differentiate between the two. This is why a life of blame and judgement is not a pleasant one.

I am getting better at not blaming myself and I think that is because I do not really feel guilty like I used to because I think I am doing the best I can with my difficult living situation. But I still do blame myself and it is usually related to something happening to an animal. I will even blame myself if a bird gets hurt and I cannot save him. But really, whose fault is it if I did everything I could DO to save him?
I don't know why it has to be anyone's fault if you tried your best. I can only say this thought pattern may have developed in childhood.

This might sound silly to you as an atheist, but I think it is really God’s fault that wild animals die, because that is how God set up the Creation. So much for the loving God. :(
It doesn't sound silly to me, but the again I don't think god exists. One thing I wouldn't do is try convince someone there is no god when they need god in some emotional way. I think that would be incredibly cruel of me.

I am always emotionally and mentally developing, but I have no idea what goes on in his head most of the time. The only time I find anything out is when we have a fight and things get revealed.

Actually, he is much more emotional than I am, and that’s the problem. I am very analytical and logical so it is difficult for me to deal with his emotions when he is irrational. Mostly it is just anxiety, but it is over things that don’t really matter, like he misplaced something or he thinks he has so much to do and not enough time to do it. I cannot make him understand that whatever it was it will turn up and even if it doesn’t it is not the end of the world. I cannot make him understand he has plenty of time. I am the one who has little time. He just gets argumentative when I point these things out even when I am nice in doing so.
My advice is don't try make him do anything or convince him of anything. You'll be able to see much more clearly when you're not at the centre of attention. However, if you become the centre of attention when you've done nothing, then that'll be even more revealing to you.

Now, that is a loaded question, and I can only speak for myself. It is not my belief that I should love myself, although I think it is okay to take care of my basic needs and maybe have some fun once in a while.I do not buy psychological theory that loving oneself is a good thing because that goes against my religious beliefs that say that we should love God and others more than ourselves.

Self-care is one thing, but I believe that selfishness is the root of all evil. True happiness does not come from fulfilling one’s selfish desires; physical pleasure and material happiness are fleeting. Connections with people is meaningful and it promotes spiritual growth but I do not consider socializing connecting if all people talk about is superficial things.
I don't disagree per se. However, you need to find out what you want and what your desires and needs are. In other words, you need to find out who you are. If you want materialistic things for yourself or you want to go on holiday sometimes or something else, then you need to find out. It sounds like you're repressing your wants and desires. I don't think you'll magically become a selfish person, however, exploring this for yourself may make you content in the long run. What's so wrong with exploring who you ware?

have some wants that I know about but they are not needs, so that is why they fall by the wayside. However, if I had more free time I could be doing some things I used to do that I am not doing now. Just going out to eat once in a while would be something different, and I know I could get my husband on board with that. I also like to travel but I cannot see us going together because someone has to take care of the cats. We used to hire a pet sitter but now we also have outdoor animals and birds we feed, so I cannot expect a pet sitter to do all of that.

I guess if I was motivated enough I could find someone, but right now I am too busy with other things. I have it in my mind that I might take a trip by myself, but I do not like driving or flying, so I would go on Amtrak. I have several atheist friends I met on forums and they all live near one another in the Midwest, and I told them that eventually I will come over and meet them. They have all been retired for years. I used to travel alone before I got married so it is no big deal. My husband would not care if I left him at home, he has plenty to do and he has his routine. Neither one of us wants to leave the cats but he worries more about that than I do. When we used to have only four cats, we took them with us on trips, so that solved the problem.
Those sound like some sensible and realistic plans. I hope you can do them soon :)

People vary in their hereditary constitution. I have a predisposition to anxiety and depression since both my parents had these and my sister and brother also had these conditions. My brother has managed it with natural remedies but my mother and sister were on antidepressants. My father had all kinds of coping mechanisms; drinking, smoking and overeating as well as collecting things. He died in 1964, before antidepressants were in common use. Many years ago, I took psychotropic drugs but then I went for homeopathic treatment and never needed drugs again. Another way I deal with my feelings is that I write, as you can see.

I do not think that most people have had the hardships or the emotional turmoil I have had in my life. You do not even know the half of it. I know how most people live because I have worked in an office with people from 42 years.

For those who do have hardships, I think one big reason most people can cope with hardships is because they have family and friends. I have opted out of having children and all my family except my brother are deceased. I could have more friends if I wanted them, but that is yet another responsibility. It is much easier to have my friends on forums rather than in person. That could change when I am ready to change it, after I retire and have more time.

Another way people cope with hardships is to grab onto the material world and all it has to offer. They buy stuff, eat, drink, have sex, go on vacations, etc. They use these things to cope, but I do not want to live for the world because I lived that way for years and I now know it brings no true happiness. Besides that, living that way is the opposite of what Baha’u’llah has enjoined me to do. I am either going to be a Baha’i or not, I cannot be a hypocrite.
Have you ever tried therapy? There are many types and it can be difficult to find a good therapist, but they do help. I don't mean a cbt therapist either, for you I'm talking about a psychotherapist of some kind. Their goal, and it can take years, is to help resolve unresolved traumas. However, talking in a non-judgemental, safe, and caring environment helps alone. Are you averse to this kind of treatment?

I probably sound unhappier than I really am because of course I am talking about my problems, not the good things in my life. I really do not have anything to complain about because I am very well off financially, I have perfect heath, a stable marriage, a job that I like, and I could retire right now if I wanted to.

As I think I told you before, it is the houses that have caused most my grief. I let them go because I was spending too much time on forums, but now I have finally decided to cut back how many posts I engender so I can take care of the houses and yards. The two tenants I have now are long term and I have a good working relationship with them, so I do not see myself having any problems with them. As such, my life has the potential to stabilize, but I live one day at a time and rarely think about the future.I do the best I can and deal with whatever happens as it comes along.
If you are doing well then I'm glad. However, not all health is financial or stability related. Mental health is also important. Someone could be the riches person in the world but be the money unhappy in the world.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Then you are truly unique. I can become quite a recluse sometimes and even then I need some form of social company.
At work people are always around and my husband is always here at home, and then I also have the 10 cats. :)
It's so important to talk about emotions, especially in a romantic relationship. However, you cannot force someone to express themselves.

Our relationship stopped being romantic a long time ago, it is strictly platonic. But it is still important to talk about feelings.
I think they happen together whether we realise it or not. Both are bad and I won't say which one is worse, because I don't know. However, they tend to happen at the same time and that's the reason I say it's a double edged sword. That little voice that blames you or other people cannot differentiate between the two. This is why a life of blame and judgement is not a pleasant one.
Yes, I know that only too well, and it does not happen very often anymore. I think one reason people blame others is to avoid responsibility and because they do not want to be to blame. If we take responsibility we don’t have to blame others unless they are really doing something blameworthy. But we have to differentiate.
I don't know why it has to be anyone's fault if you tried your best. I can only say this thought pattern may have developed in childhood.
Yes, I am sure that is where it developed because it is very deep-seated. Although I cannot remember the specifics, I know my mother was a very blaming person and she was critical and angry at my father. The children were pretty much ignored. My mother changed a lot later in life, after she became a Baha’i, but that did not help me much because the damage was done in my childhood.
It doesn't sound silly to me, but the again I don't think god exists. One thing I wouldn't do is try convince someone there is no god when they need god in some emotional way. I think that would be incredibly cruel of me.

I often envy atheists, not having to believe in God. I would not say I need God in an emotional way, I just believe God exists. I do not think believers can be convinced that God does not exist, not anymore than atheists can be convinced that God does exist. There are reasons we both came to these conclusions that are valid for us. To me, it just makes no sense that God does not exist, so it is just a given. I suppose the main reason I believe is because of Baha’u’llah, what He wrote and what He did on His mission. I cannot recall believing in God as a child. I never even read one verse from the Bible until six years ago.
My advice is don't try make him do anything or convince him of anything. You'll be able to see much more clearly when you're not at the centre of attention. However, if you become the centre of attention when you've done nothing, then that'll be even more revealing to you.
Well, that makes sense. I do try to stay out of it but it is kind if difficult since I have to hear him carrying on about whatever he has misplaced.
I don't disagree per se. However, you need to find out what you want and what your desires and needs are. In other words, you need to find out who you are. If you want materialistic things for yourself or you want to go on holiday sometimes or something else, then you need to find out. It sounds like you're repressing your wants and desires. I don't think you'll magically become a selfish person, however, exploring this for yourself may make you content in the long run. What's so wrong with exploring who you are?
Right now who I am is a person on forums who loves cats and goes to work and takes care of cats and tenants. I do not have much time for anything else. No, I do not think it would make me selfish to think about a few things that I want. I just do not want to start wanting things I do not have time for. I could be happy just going out to dinner or watching a movie once in a while, things I used to do all the time. Travel might be in the future.
Those sound like some sensible and realistic plans. I hope you can do them soon .
Thanks. :)
Have you ever tried therapy? There are many types and it can be difficult to find a good therapist, but they do help. I don't mean a cbt therapist either, for you I'm talking about a psychotherapist of some kind. Their goal, and it can take years, is to help resolve unresolved traumas. However, talking in a non-judgemental, safe, and caring environment helps alone. Are you averse to this kind of treatment?
I do not recall if I told you but I was in various kinds of therapy continuously from about 1983 till about 2000 and then after that I was in counseling off and on until about five years ago. I saw social workers, counselors, psychologists and psychiatrists. My most recent counseling was all for grief related to the cat losses that caused my PTSD to resurface, since many of the deaths were sudden. I think that the only kind of counseling that might help would be EMDR but the health care plan I have does not cover that.

I have not been very impressed with most of the MA level counselors I have gone to and I have a MA in counseling so I know what they should know. Most of them have little understanding of grief and trauma. I had a clinical psychologist for many years who was good, but I got over all the issues I was working with him on. The main thing is the anxiety in cars and the grief over cat losses, and I have learned to just deal with those. It has helped a lot to have friends I can talk to on forums.
If you are doing well then I'm glad. However, not all health is financial or stability related. Mental health is also important. Someone could be the richest person in the world but be the money unhappy in the world.
I know that is true, but I think that spiritual happiness is as important as mental health, but of course that is because I believe in God. There was a time not long ago when I shunned God and religion and I thought psychology was the answer to everything. That is one reason I went to school for my MA in Counseling Psychology because I did need to for a career, given I have an MA in Geography and I have had very stable government jobs all my life.

Everything started to turn around when I decided to try to do something with my religion and make peace with God. I do not think that is a coincidence or just some kind of psychological thing. I really think that God helps and guides people who believe in Him, but then that is because I am a believer.
 
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