Do the numerous mistakes in the Bible play a part in driving people away from religion?

[oldbadger]

Flawed people who want to sin with impunity find fault with the Bible and the Bible's God, IMHO.

What kind of sin were you thinking of?
Drinking alcohol?
A young girl going to a nightclub, dancing with boys?
Two gays entering in to a civil partnership?

??

 

[Windwalker]

I guess this whole notion is foreign to me.

You self-identified in an earlier post as an ex-Christian? How is it that notion of biblical inerrancy is foreign to you then?

As I align myself with Orthodox Judaism, I believe that G-d gave the Torah to Moshe on Sinai and that every single letter of the Torah is meaningful.

Do all Jews literally believe Moses wrote the Pentateuch? Even without the benefit of the tools of modern research and scholarship, it's kind of hard to believe Moses wrote about his own death. I don't believe all Jews deny modern scholarship which shows the multiple different sources for the books of the Pentateuch.

Documentary hypothesis - Wikipedia).

I'm only dismayed that Christians don't seem to hold their own scriptures to such standards.

Obviously some do, and it cause a great deal of challenges to their faith when examining the facts that don't fit with that idea. That's why a lot of them either become neo-atheists, or continue to try to find a religion that they think will fulfill that expectation they had of what God should do in order for God to be true and believable for them.

To me, it seems defeatist to acknowledge errors in one's scripture and yet cling to it; since to me that means god makes mistakes, and that is not my G-d.

I'm not sure how modern Christians are "clinging" to scripture, in finding it inspiring despite knowing there are natural, human errors within it. It's not a matter of all-or-none for them. They don't have such an expectation that easily sets up God in their faith to fall.

"If God isn't what I imagine God looks like, then none of it has any truth to me". That to me is the perfect recipe for losing faith.

 

[Rival]

You self-identified in an earlier post as an ex-Christian? How is it that notion of biblical inerrancy is foreign to you then?

There are many reasons why I left Christianity and the errors I saw was one of them. Even as a Christian the idea was foreign to me.

Do all Jews literally believe Moses wrote the Pentateuch? Even without the benefit of the tools of modern research and scholarship, it's kind of hard to believe Moses wrote about his own death. I don't believe all Jews deny modern scholarship which shows the multiple different sources for the books of the Pentateuch.

No, that's why I specified 'Orthodox' Judaism.

Obviously some do, and it cause a great deal of challenges to their faith when examining the facts that don't fit with that idea. That's why a lot of them either become neo-atheists, or continue to try to find a religion that they think will fulfill that expectation they had of what God should do in order for God to be true and believable for them.

It is more honest to leave a religion you see errors with, in my opinion, than to stick with it and somehow try justifying them.

I'm not sure how modern Christians are "clinging" to scripture, in finding it inspiring despite knowing there are natural, human errors within it. It's not a matter of all-or-none for them. They don't have such an expectation that easily sets up God in their faith to fall.

If their god is not good enough to match the tiny human expectation that he can get his story straight then that is another problem imo.

"If God isn't what I imagine God looks like, then none of it has any truth to me". That to me is the perfect recipe for losing faith.

A god who makes such basic errors in writing cannot possibly be a god who creates and runs the whole of existence, imv. Those two ideas simply don't mesh.

 

[Quintessence]

Do ex-Christians or "Christians by name" tend to think that since the Bible is flawed, religion is false?

While it's debatable whether or not I can be considered an ex-Christian given I abandoned that path very young, it's true that disinterest in the Bible contributed to my leave. And at that time, being an idiot about religion, I naturally concluded all theism and religion was rubbish.

Then I grew up.

 

[Mock Turtle]

While it's debatable whether or not I can be considered an ex-Christian given I abandoned that path very young, it's true that disinterest in the Bible contributed to my leave. And at that time, being an idiot about religion, I naturally concluded all theism and religion was rubbish.

Then I grew up.

Just some of it?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@Windwalker
Rival made a very valid point, it seems:


@Unveiled Artist said there could be direct revelations, too... If so..., these won't contradict God either, I think. I mean if they come from God.
God does not contradict himself, as I see it. Neither in the Bible, nor via potential personal revelations.

Would you know it's god if the translations, era, and culture influenced the accuracy of the written Bible words?

 

[firedragon]

Do ex-Christians or "Christians by name" tend to think that since the Bible is flawed, religion is false?

These are all debatable questions you see when you ask a question like that its asked with an already built up premise. So its the loaded question fallacy. Unless of course you provide a good example of exactly what kind of flaw or what ever is that you are making a claim of. I believe its very important to not make generalised comments like that.

 

[firedragon]

Consider much of the Qur'an is adapted from the bible.

However i don't think its its books, what is turning people off religion is
a/ freedom of information
b/ some few religious people

Tu Quoque.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

To me, it seems defeatist to acknowledge errors in one's scripture and yet cling to it; since to me that means god makes mistakes, and that is not my G-d.

Defeatist or intellectually honest.

 

[Rival]

Defeatist or intellectually honest.

Yes, if you want to spin it that way of course some will see it like that.

But if you believe your scripture is erroneous and yet remain steadfast to it, what is holding you to it? This is the part I don't understand. If it's merely cultural 'I'm a Jew/Muslim/xyz and this is my scripture even if I know it's wrong', then surely it would be perhaps more honest to refer to oneself as a cultural Jew/Muslim/whatever. In the general scheme of things, believing something is wrong is a good reason to ditch it, not stick with it.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Yes, if you want to spin it that way of course some will see it like that.

And if you want to denigrate it as "spin" that it, of course, your perogative.

But if you believe your scripture is erroneous and yet remain steadfast to it, what is holding you to it? This is the part I don't understand. If it's merely cultural 'I'm a Jew/Muslim/xyz and this is my scripture even if I know it's wrong', then surely it would be perhaps more honest to refer to oneself as a cultural Jew/Muslim/whatever. In the general scheme of things, believing something is wrong is a good reason to ditch it, not stick with it.

Good question; wrong thread.

 

[Jimmy]

Are you referring to the theory of thousands of metaphors in the Bible?

That's something you'd have to tell yourself if the only "spiritual book" you have is the Bible.

I doubt this matters. When people learn about the Bible, even if they accept that it may have errors in it, it is the absurdity of it that makes them scoff at it.

I agree though that simple disbelief in God probably does not originate from the errors in the Bible, but I asked about the assumption that religion was false. I suspect that since the majority of the people are rather uneducated about religion in general, when they feel their religion doesn't make sense, they assume no religion makes sense.

How many people who reject Christianity, actively or passively, have actually looked around if there is some better religion out there? I dare say, by far the majority never even think of it.

I've read them all

 

[thomas t]

Each and every time you might ever mention any group of any kind of people, any one of them can accuse you of talking about them individually.

if it's a disparaging and generalizing comment, then yes, I think. I belong to that group. If you speak in a condescending manner about the whole group... and if I'm present in this very debate belonging to the very group you're talking about... of course you show condescension against me, I think.
Feel free to write about them on the subject level. "on many occasions, they don't think it through"... and I won't say anything.
But " they never listen" goes too far, I think. This is getting personal. This is making them (us) a topic as opposed to what they say. This is at least my opinion on the matter of when you're getting personal in posting something mentioning a group.

What rubbish.
[...]
What a joke.

This is impolite speech, I think.

Ah..... so you are an extremist Christian, is that what you are confirming?

I reject the idea of the Bible being erroneous. I don't call myself extreme. I wanted to shorten the list of my points of criticism of your post, that's why I didn't react on this.

Firstly I don't post racist remarks, nor about 'all Germans'.

I told you that you did not. It was a comparison, Oldbadger. A comparison for a generalizing remark to the detriment of an entire group.

I didn't post anything against you personally. I did not address you on the personal level.

John says that Jesus died a day earlier than Mark.

+

Mark and John differ absolutely about the day that Jesus had his last supper, and (of course) the day he died.

no, that is not true.
Both indicate the same exact day, as I cited above (last post).

 

[oldbadger]

no, that is not true.
Both indicate the same exact day, as I cited above (last post).

Are you telling me that your church uses the Greek Concordance as a Bible?

Please tell me what Bible your church uses then we will see what John and Mark actually wrote.

 

[Rival]

Are you telling me that your church uses the Greek Concordance as a Bible?

I don't know if this is meant to be funny so I didn't rate it but it made me chuckle

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I believe there are no flaws and no errors in the Bible.

What's wrong with flaws in the bible?
That doesn't mean there are flaws in god.

I see if it contains a few errors, it really matters not.

I consider the Bible to be a reliable source of spiritual guidance. It gives us reliable guidance on how to live our lives under our One God and what is required from us to accept the promise contained within.

This quote is my thoughts;

"THIS book is the Holy Book of God, of celestial Inspiration. It is the Bible of Salvation, the Noble Gospel. It is the mystery of the Kingdom and its light. It is the Divine Bounty, the sign of the guidance of God."

‘Abdu’l-Bahá Abbás

I see the Bible has served its purpose and is fulfilled.

Regards Tony

 

[Brickjectivity]

Do ex-Christians or "Christians by name" tend to think that since the Bible is flawed, religion is false?

It is those who think of themselves as ex-Christians that have enabled us to better appreciate what the biblical literature has to offer. They also ask important questions about how Christians are dealing with those in need of mercy. They criticize, and we benefit from that criticism.

 

[1213]

Do ex-Christians or "Christians by name" tend to think that since the Bible is flawed, religion is false?

Probably many do so. And it is sad, because Bible has no real flaws. The flaws are in the interpretations people make.

 

[oldbadger]

I don't know if this is meant to be funny so I didn't rate it but it made me chuckle

Ah!
I really did mean that question!
I know it looks like I'm taking the mickey, but since the member used that to show how John and Mark got the same day as each other (hogwash!) I just wanted to nail this point down to something, somehow because it can get slippery.....

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@Windwalker
Rival made a very valid point, it seems:


@Unveiled Artist said there could be direct revelations, too... If so..., these won't contradict God either, I think. I mean if they come from God.
God does not contradict himself, as I see it. Neither in the Bible, nor via potential personal revelations.

Instead of the bible and god supporting each other, I'm saying that you can have direct revelation from god "and" the bible being at error. "You look to the bible as if it has eternal life but even it testifies on my behalf..." in other words, you can have christ (assuming christ is god here) without the bible but not the bible without christ.