Do the teachings of Jesus allow us to judge?

[astarath]

The gospels requiring that one teaching can not contradict another! This would mean that verse in matthew is meant to be read as a guideline for judgement and a caution against hypocracy!

 

[astarath]

The command was not Matthew's but Christ's and John being written later than the synoptic gospels would have been quite aware of the teaching!

 

[McBell]

John may not know about Matthew's command, he could be revising it, or righteous judgment could be not judging (or all three).

So the Holy Spirit, which is said to have guided the authors, goofed?

Still
The context of Mathew 7:1 is that one is not to judge hypocritically.

It is not a command for no judging at all.

 

[McBell]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Malachi 3:18: [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
I am curious, how can one discern between the righteous and the wicked without judging?


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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Revelation 2:2[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
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How could they have been found to be liars if they were not judged?

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I Cor. 6:1-5[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
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Seems to me that this is Paul rebuking the [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Corinthians for NOT judging.


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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1Co 1:10 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. [/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If judging is wrong as you claim is commanded in Mathew7:1, then why would Paul make such a statement?

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[logician]

Judging in what context, everyone judges everybody by some criteria.

 

[credance]

I think the teachings of Jesus allow us to judge what is right for ourselves.
If you were living in sin and the Holy Spirit lifted you above it and you repented, I think you would be able to judge that a sinful life was no longer for you. And when you distance yourself from old acquaintances who continue to live in sin I don't think you are necessarily judging them but judging for yourself.

 

[astarath]

You are still placing judgement on them as well by stating there actions warrant a division in your eyes!

 

[blackout]

It seems to me that the point of the parable is that judging others is the speck in our eye.

Wouldn't that be the log? (not the speck)
The one doing the judging is the one with the log.

It's interesting also to note the multiple meanings of "log".
A log (book) is a place where you keep "accounts"
or where you "log" another's doings (and wrongdoings).
A log could also contain your list of rules and directives.

When we look at people through our "logs"
(directives and accounts)
we never REALLY see the person before us.
We see "figures",
but do not clearly see the unique individual before us.

Only IN the clarity of unaccounted Love,
can we ever hope to see, know, reach, and help (one)another.

For me, this is the meaning of the parable.

 

[Ratiocinative]

To judge means to pass sentence upon someone, to say that they should goto Hell. This is the judging that Jesus spoke against, to say that a person should never be forgiven. Telling someone that what they are doing is sinful is not wrong, and is actually a good thing when done in the right way with the right attitude. If you've never told them, then how can you be sure that they know? Of course it is doubtful the person will listen, especially if they don't even know you, but it has happened before and is worth the effort.

What it all comes down to is intent. The Pharisees, who received the most criticism from Jesus, were always bragging about the things they had done. They weren't interested in helping others do what is right, they were just interested in making themselves look good. On the outside they seemed to be the most righteous people, but on the inside their motives were selfish, which is why Jesus had the harshest things to say to them. Had they been trying to encourage people to do the right thing, rather than just bragging, then Jesus probably would have given them some encouragement rather than criticism.

 

[crystalonyx]

To judge means to pass sentence upon someone, to say that they should goto Hell. .

What difference does it make, if you haven't got the power to carry out this judgement?

 

[McBell]

To judge means to pass sentence upon someone, to say that they should goto Hell. This is the judging that Jesus spoke against, to say that a person should never be forgiven.

The thing is, to judge means so much more:

JUDGE, v.i. [L. judico.]

1. To compare facts or ideas, and perceive their agreement or disagreement, and thus to distinguish truth from falsehood.
Judge not according to the appearance John 7.

2. To form an opinion; to bring to issue the reasoning or deliberations of the mind.
If I did not know the originals, I should not be able to judge, by the copies, which was Virgil and which Ovid.

3. To hear and determine, as in causes on trial; to pass sentence. He was present on the bench, but could not judge in the case.
The Lord judge between thee and me. Gen 16.

4. To discern; to distinguish; to consider accurately for the purpose of forming an opinion or conclusion.
Judge in yourselves; is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? 1 Cor 11.

​

JUDGE, v.t.

To hear and determine a case; to examine and decide.
Chaos shall judge the strife.

1. To try; to examine and pass sentence on.
Take ye him and judge him according to your law.
John 18.
God shall judge the righteous and the wicked. Eccl 3.

2. Rightly to understand and discern.
He that is spiritual, judgeth all things. 1 Cor 2.

3. To censure rashly; to pass severe sentence.
Judge not, that ye be not judged. Mat 7.

4. To esteem; to think; to reckon.
If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord--
Acts 16.

5. To rule or govern.
The Lord shall judge his people. Heb 10.

6. To doom to punishment; to punish.
I will judge thee according to thy ways. Ezek 7.​

Source:
Webster's 1828 Dictionary
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Telling someone that what they are doing is sinful is not wrong, and is actually a good thing when done in the right way with the right attitude. If you've never told them, then how can you be sure that they know? Of course it is doubtful the person will listen, especially if they don't even know you, but it has happened before and is worth the effort.

Problem here is that there are far to many who want to put their own personal preferences as to what is sin onto the list.
Masturbation for example.
The Bible says absolutely NOTHING about masturbation, yet there are many who not only claim it is a sin, but claim that the Bible clearly says it is.

 

[doppelganger]

I am not under the law. Unless I want a law to be used to judge me, I am free of the law, and thereby so is everyone else in my view. Everything is lawful, though some things aren't prudent.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/57934-everything-permissible.html

 

[sandandfoam]

I am not under the law. Unless I want a law to be used to judge me, I am free of the law, and thereby so is everyone else in my view. Everything is lawful, though some things aren't prudent.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/57934-everything-permissible.html

We are all under a moral law.
Just we all have different moral laws. Your law is that you are under no law. My law is not to harm anyone. As laws they're not better or worse than each other, they're just 'ours'.

 

[Muffled]

Judgement is always God's prerogative but those with the Paraclete are not judging with their own judgement but with the judgement of God:

John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Spirit: 23 whose soever sins ye forgive, they are forgiven unto them; whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Christians may not be judged because they are already forgiven:

Romans 8:1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death.

 

[doppelganger]

Romans 8:1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death.

What is Paul referring to as the "law of sin and of death" in this passage?

 

[doppelganger]

Your law is that you are under no law.

Ummmm . . . not exactly. I am under whatever moral law I choose to place myself under. That's not the same as saying "my law is that I am under no law." To me, moral law is a construct - an image that can be be stepped through (as when one's oxen are in a ditch).

 

[McBell]

Christians may not be judged because they are already forgiven:

Romans 8:1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death.

I do not envy your job.
Just thinking about telling all those Christians who judge other Christians that they cannot judge other Christians gives me a headache.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Sicne we were made in gods image we can. God judges us when we die, so we can judge others too (from a christian POV)
(from mine) No.

 

[McBell]

Sicne we were made in gods image we can. God judges us when we die, so we can judge others too (from a christian POV)
(from mine) No.

Are you claiming that from your POV one is not to judge others?

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Are you claiming that from your POV one is not to judge others?

No, since you would need to be perfectly fair and flawless to make a judgement, unless you see a man walk into his house after a days work and just stab his wife while she was making dinner for no reason.