Do the teachings of Jesus allow us to judge?

[McBell]

I recently judged a person as not being a Christian even though he was studying to become an Episcopalian priest. He refused to aknowledge that his homosexuality was a sin. The truth is that he never asked Jesus to be his Lord and Savior and he wanted no part of being saved from his sin. He simply wanted to have Jesus approve his sin (Something that God will never do) and stated that Jesus dieing for his sins meant that he could do whatever he wanted to do. As Paul says:

Rom 3:6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?7 But if the truth of God through my lie abounded unto his glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner?8 and why not (as we are slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say), Let us do evil, that good may come? whose condemnation is just.

and

Rom 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. We who died to sin, how shall we any longer live therein?

Seems to me that this is exactly what Jesus was talking about when he said "Judge Not Lest Ye Be Judged."

I wonder if you hold yourself to the exact same standard by which you judged him?
How is it that you know he never asked Jesus to be his Lord and Savior and merely wants no part of being saved from his sin?
Seems to me that there is actually no way you can know these things.

Wonder why so many people are so concerned with Paul has to say about topic over what Jesus has to say?
Is that not doing the exact thing you accuse the fellow in the post above of?
Why is it ok for you, but not for him?

 

[gnostic]

I recently judged a person as not being a Christian even though he was studying to become an Episcopalian priest. He refused to aknowledge that his homosexuality was a sin.

Did you picket with signs that he should not become priest because he is gay?

Or harass him (not necessarily with death threats) with constant phone calls, mails or emails, text messages or put graffiti on his home because he is gay?

If you have, then that persecuting, and then I am afraid you've failed Jesus' teaching of -

Do not judge unless you want to be judged.
Do not persecute unless you want to be persecuted?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I recently judged a person as not being a Christian even though he was studying to become an Episcopalian priest. He refused to aknowledge that his homosexuality was a sin. The truth is that he never asked Jesus to be his Lord and Savior and he wanted no part of being saved from his sin. He simply wanted to have Jesus approve his sin (Something that God will never do) and stated that Jesus dieing for his sins meant that he could do whatever he wanted to do. As Paul says:

Rom 3:6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?7 But if the truth of God through my lie abounded unto his glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner?8 and why not (as we are slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say), Let us do evil, that good may come? whose condemnation is just.

and

Rom 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. We who died to sin, how shall we any longer live therein?

Did you stop reading at Chapter 6?

Rom 14:1-8 (particularily verse 4):

Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.

Actually, all of Romans 14 is relevant, particularily these verses:

13:

Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way.

22:

So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves.

 

[Ronald]

There is a world of difference between being 'judgemental' and judging between right and wrong.

 

[tomspug]

It is the purpose of the law to judge, which is dealt with in court. The courts decide fitting punishments and criminals are punished for their deeds.

I fail to see where people that aren't lawyers and judges have any place in this process. The phrase "innocent until proven guilty" is less about assuming innocence and more about dissuading people from making judgments outside of court.

 

[thorman]

"Judge not that you be not judged." These words are spoken by the only person who had the right to judge all of creation but instead chose to die for it. I think a prime example is found in John 8 with the story of the adulteress. His answer to the eager zealots standing with ready rocks in their hands and his conversation to the surpprised woman always seemed to echo Matthew 7:1. In fact it can be chopped down to an even more basic principle- "And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength...and you shall love your neighbour as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these." Mark 12:30,31 In the end everything in a follower of Christ's life should be guided by these two commandments. When Christ says "Judge not." He means do not be a pompous stuck up over-important *** and insert your own opinion forcefully over that of another's. In fact the Greek word used here Krino can mean to give one's opinion. However, there are other places where the Law of Love demands that we intervene in a brother's life, say if he is slipping into alcoholism and needs our help.

 

[DallasApple]

We have to "judge" situations not necessarily people though..But sometimes their actions.It must be out of love adn consdieration for them and OR anyone else that might be affected negatively.

We have talked here about would we kill and if so under what "criteria"..That criteria would be used to "judge" whether or not it is necessary to take anothers life.

If my child walks up to another child and bites him...I "judge" his actions..And I say NO that is not right.What you did is bad and wrong and I punish him.Im not 'judging' him Im judging his behavior based on what I know and most people would agree is right from wrong.

Having said that its dificult not to judge people sometimes and form an opinion of if they are "good or bad" people..

If I see my neighbor kicking and beating his dog half to death..I would report him to the city making a judgment his actions are worng and cruel and in fact illegal..but I would struggle with thoughts like "what kind of person would do that"..

I would do my best to remember I have no idea what his life up to that point had been like.But i would definatley make the "judgement" he doesnt deserve the right to own an animal.At least not at that point in time.

Blessings

Dallas

 

[gnostic]

In fact it can be chopped down to an even more basic principle- "And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength...and you shall love your neighbour as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."

Does "love thy neighbour", include loving my "neighbour's wife" or my "neighbour's daughter"? Does that count?

 

[thorman]

I'm not sure that Christ's concept of love was quite the same as yours.

 

[DallasApple]

Does "love thy neighbour", include loving my "neighbour's wife" or my "neighbour's daughter"? Does that count?

You should love them as thier brother. you consider them sisters.Not involving "eros" love.The same as you would want your neighbor to consider your wife or daughter..

Blessings

Dallas

 

[gnostic]

I'm not sure that Christ's concept of love was quite the same as yours.

You should love them as thier brother. you consider them sisters.Not involving "eros" love.The same as you would want your neighbor to consider your wife or daughter..

Darn! :149: You, Christians, sure know how to quickly spoil all the fun in life.

 

[DallasApple]

Darn! :149: You, Christians, sure know how to quickly spoil all the fun in life.

Christians arent the ones that cornered that market..Many feel this way and believe this..I believe most people..Chirstians,Jews,Hindus,Muslims,Atheist,Agnostics,Buddhist,and on and on dont want thier neighbor drooling over thier wife and or daughter and thinking sexual thoughts about them .And definatley dont want it acted out upon..Dont blame it on Christianity.

Blessings

Dallas

 

[jtartar]

Hello,
We have many scripures hat warn us about judging our brother, but, on the oher hand we have scriptures that seem to indicate that we do have the right to judge under certain circumstances.
Notice1Cor 5:11-13, where Paul is talking about a brother who had committed fornicaion wih his stepmother. Notice that Paul says that the overseers should remove the wicked man from amoung them. This would constitute judging, but is required to keep the congregation clean. Consider also 1Cor 6:1-5. All of this does not mean that we judge whether a person is worthy of everlasting life. We are able to judge whether a person is breaking God's laws or not.

 

[Vor]

don't judge or else you'll be judged, why do you look at the speck of saw dust in your brothers eye. first take out the speck from your own eye and you will see clearly...

its all right there, i dont really see the question. Don't judge unless you want to be judged. Are you allowed to? it doesn't say you aren't allowed to, it just warns...besides (and this is old testament too)

when tested about the greatest commandments he (jesus) said that the greatest commandments are to love the lord your G-d with all your heart with all your soul and with all strength and the other is to 'love your neighbor as yourself'. So would you like other people to judge you?

It's said elsewhere by Jesus "In EVERYTHING, therefore, treat other people the same way you would have them treat you, for this is the law and the prophets." The law is about 5 books of Moses I believe.

Maybe you should ask yourself why you want to judge?
To perform G-d's law righteously is my answer and that leads me to first go by the two greatest commandments, BUT ARE WE IN THE SEAT TO JUDGE? Have we been appointed as having the bourden of being a judge? I don't think I have and I'm glad for that!

 

[gnostic]

Christians arent the ones that cornered that market..Many feel this way and believe this..I believe most people..Chirstians,Jews,Hindus,Muslims,Atheist,Agn ostics,Buddhist,and on and on dont want thier neighbor drooling over thier wife and or daughter and thinking sexual thoughts about them .And definatley dont want it acted out upon..Dont blame it on Christianity.

I was only joking, Dallas.

It was mostly due to both you being Christians answering me shortly after I posted that 1st post to Thorman as a joke that I brought it up.

 

[gnostic]

The Crusades, torturing and burning of heretics and witches are real historical examples of Christians failing Jesus' teachings of not judging, not persecuting and of not "love thy neighbours".

I also recall that Jesus taught, not to provide false witness. Christians turned against each neighbours, friends, sons, brothers, mothers, daughters, etc, by informing the inquisitors of
what they perceive to be practices of witchcraft and devil's worship. Truly disgraceful behaviours where they would lie and exaggerate of what the other person did.

Christians in their early history, didn't have that much power, politically, and were persecuted. But once they had real power, these Christians became corrupted by this power, and became the persecutors for the centuries that followed Constantine.

 

[DarkSun]

Right! and... Obviously your insinuations are stated however I am not laying any judgement but rather drawing directly from doctrine that there is only one action that is condemning to hell and that is a refusal to accept Christ as saviour. All other actions that cn be deemed sinful are forgiven if one openly accepts!

I disagree. By the way, you misspelled a three-letter word.

 

[DarkSun]

Here's my view:

Matthew 7:1-5

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
​

John 8:4-12:

and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" "No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared.
​

 

[DarkSun]

The Crusades, torturing and burning of heretics and witches are real historical examples of Christians failing Jesus' teachings of not judging, not persecuting and of not "love thy neighbours".

I also recall that Jesus taught, not to provide false witness. Christians turned against each neighbours, friends, sons, brothers, mothers, daughters, etc, by informing the inquisitors of
what they perceive to be practices of witchcraft and devil's worship. Truly disgraceful behaviours where they would lie and exaggerate of what the other person did.

Christians in their early history, didn't have that much power, politically, and were persecuted. But once they had real power, these Christians became corrupted by this power, and became the persecutors for the centuries that followed Constantine.

I guess we've got a couple of millenia worth of mistakes to catch up on. But tell me: how are the current generation responsible for the misdeeds of their fathers?

I can see your point, though. The Church, as a political body, has abused its power countless times throughout history. Corruption and hatred did run rampant. One thing you have to understand is that those in power committed those acts, and not the individual.

As a result of higher education and greater awareness, times have changed in more ways than one. People have made their mistakes, learned from them (hopefully) and are looking to the future with a more stringent outlook. The history is there so that we may never be doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past. I believe that we won't.

 

[gnostic]

The history is there so that we may never be doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past. I believe that we won't.

Sadly true.