Do the teachings of Jesus promote poverty?

[roger1440]

The way I heard it was that if money keeps you from putting God first, then you'd be better off without it. That would be the same with anything that a follower of God would put above God.

It’s the relationship to money that keeps us from God. It’s not the money itself. Money by itself has no power over us. It’s when we give it power we are in trouble. We cannot serve both God and money. Remember, God is a jealous God. When we attempt to serve both, we are guilty of adultery. A house divided upon itself cannot stand and soon collapses.

 

[Estro Felino]

Many people create wealth due to their skill and drive.

No I am not totally anti-tax.

The government has certainly been getting into stuff that the founding fathers never dreamed of.

all right. But rich people deserve to be rich if they earn that money honestly and through their hard work.
The problem is that the state has the duty to allow everyone to have a job and to live decently.
so marketplaces cannot be controlled by rich people (who will use their money to become richer and richer), but by the state.
The state needs to control the marketplace to give anyone the same chances.
Even if that implies the limitation of rich people's freedom.

 

[roger1440]

Why did the ancient Jews bring the treasures of Egypt with them when they left Egypt?

 

[outhouse]

Why did the ancient Jews bring the treasures of Egypt with them when they left Egypt?

They factually never did that.

 

[Brickjectivity]

For those who agree.

It is doing nothing but taking the original statements of the unknown authors out of context for the cultural anthropology of the time.

It was not teaching poverty.

It was trying to cut off the Hellenistic overlords in Galilee who worked these people as slave labor, and to the point of starvation.

They were all in poverty ALREADY!, and Jesus methods made it so they might not all starve to death, and it would cut off the money flow to the Hellenist and Roman taxation.

He was trying to make it better not worse.

Interesting, so you are suggesting it was not crazy then. I like that you are putting the dialogue into the context of the time and culture in which the quote supposedly comes from.

You know what it reminds me of is the Jewish feast of trumpets or at least it seems to draw from some principles in it. Well, what I perceive to be some of the principles in it.

 

[outhouse]

Interesting, so you are suggesting it was not crazy then. I like that you are putting the dialogue into the context of the time and culture in which the quote supposedly comes from.

You know what it reminds me of is the Jewish feast of trumpets or at least it seems to draw from some principles in it. Well, what I perceive to be some of the principles in it.

Not crazy at all. Maybe Jesus had a glimpse of the Essene communities, and wanted all Aramaic Jews to follow said lifestyle.

This is a guess, and I don't stand behind it other then an idea.


What I do know is that life was very hard for Aramaic Galileans, death and disease everywhere.

Nazareth was a hovel to be avoided it was so poor.

 

[savagewind]

Not crazy at all. Maybe Jesus had a glimpse of the Essene communities, and wanted all Aramaic Jews to follow said lifestyle.

This is a guess, and I don't stand behind it other then an idea.


What I do know is that life was very hard for Aramaic Galileans, death and disease everywhere.

Nazareth was a hovel to be avoided it was so poor.

It seems all your ideas ignore that possibility that he had the insight of God. God who knows all things.

 

[metis]

Many people create wealth due to their skill and drive.

No I am not totally anti-tax.

The government has certainly been getting into stuff that the founding fathers never dreamed of.

Most of the big money is being made by those who literally create nothing. Investors, for example, don't create money, they move it around. CEO's don't produce anything, they just make decisions in conjunction with the investors, and their incomes and golden parachutes are often available even if they fail.

As far as the founding fathers are concerned, they were neither saints nor inerrant. On top of that, times have changed, and old ideas often don't work too well with new situations. What would they do with "credit-default swaps" and the "shadow-banking system"?

 

[ChristineES]

It’s the relationship to money that keeps us from God. It’s not the money itself. Money by itself has no power over us. It’s when we give it power we are in trouble. We cannot serve both God and money. Remember, God is a jealous God. When we attempt to serve both, we are guilty of adultery. A house divided upon itself cannot stand and soon collapses.

Of course, that is what I meant. I could have all the money in the world and it may or may not interfere with my relationship with God. It isn't "money is the root of all evil" but "The love of money is the root of all evil".

 

[Sapiens]

It’s the relationship to money that keeps us from God. It’s not the money itself. Money by itself has no power over us. It’s when we give it power we are in trouble. We cannot serve both God and money. Remember, God is a jealous God. When we attempt to serve both, we are guilty of adultery. A house divided upon itself cannot stand and soon collapses.

While I'd swap the word "humanity" for your word "God" we are on the same page.

Many people create wealth due to their skill and drive.

Sometimes, but often that is a myth born of privilege.

No I am not totally anti-tax.

Good, cause taxes should return to the level of the USA's most prosperous era, the mid 1950s.

The government has certainly been getting into stuff that the founding fathers never dreamed of.

There are now many things not written about in the their philosophies.

Why did the ancient Jews bring the treasures of Egypt with them when they left Egypt?

Since it never happened the answer to why the did it should be fascinating.

It seems all your ideas ignore that possibility that he had the insight of God. God who knows all things.

Take your pick: all knowing and incompetent or non-existent ... you can't have it both ways.

Most of the big money is being made by those who literally create nothing. Investors, for example, don't create mowiney, they move it around. CEO's don't produce anything, they just make decisions in conjunction with the investors, and their incomes and golden parachutes are often available even if they fail.

As far as the founding fathers are concerned, they were neither saints nor inerrant. On top of that, times have changed, and old ideas often don't work too well with new situations. What would they do with "credit-default swaps" and the "shadow-banking system"?

Hear! Hear! (or that too Tory/Loyalist for y'all?)

Of course, that is what I meant. I could have all the money in the world and it may or may not interfere with my relationship with God. It isn't "money is the root of all evil" but "The love of money is the root of all evil".

Maybe it would not interfere with your relationship with your God, but odds are it would wreck your relationship with your family and the rest of humanity.

 

[savagewind]

Take your pick: all knowing and incompetent or non-existent ... you can't have it both ways.

How can someone be incompetent knowing something? Can a person know and not know at the same time about the same thing?

A person can know and not react. Is that what mean?

 

[Sapiens]

Ah ... you start to see the problem grasshopper.

 

[savagewind]

An illustration. God could cause the providing of food and water to the needy. In fact it has been done by believers many times. Wicked and greedy people might stop shipments. War might break out against the wicked and greedy and now the condition of the needy ones gets worse. What is a god to do? Should he kill them? Some people think so. Some people seem to know so....but later.

 

[outhouse]

It seems all your ideas ignore that possibility that he had the insight of God. God who knows all things.

Im sorry but there is no place in credible history that is explained with mythology.

 

[outhouse]

It isn't "money is the root of all evil" but "The love of money is the root of all evil".

Spoken from someone not as hungry as jesus I bet



It is not in context.

These people money was life and death, not wealth.

 

[roger1440]

Of course, that is what I meant. I could have all the money in the world and it may or may not interfere with my relationship with God. It isn't "money is the root of all evil" but "The love of money is the root of all evil".

Yep. That's one of the most misquoted verses in the Bible. Most people forget the "love" part.

 

[roger1440]

While I'd swap the word "humanity" for your word "God" we are on the same page.

The question would best be answered within the context it was asked. God can not be excluded from the answer. The starting point is Jesus. Therefore the answer MUST be limited to the confines of what Jesus taught. It’s irrelevant if we understand his teachings. What is relevant is that we can not move from within its perimeter.

 

[Sapiens]

The question would best be answered within the context it was asked. God can not be excluded from the answer. The starting point is Jesus. Therefore the answer MUST be limited to the confines of what Jesus taught. It’s irrelevant if we understand his teachings. What is relevant is that we can not move from within its perimeter.

Now ... don't get all weird on me, perform the experiment: It’s the relationship to money that keeps us from humanity. It’s not the money itself. Money by itself has no power over us. It’s when we give it power we are in trouble. We cannot serve both humanity and money.

Works fine for me.

I'm headed for the beach, if you want to come along ... that's fine, you can even bring your invisible friend as long as you make damned sure that he, she or it does not get in the way.

 

[roger1440]

Now ... don't get all weird on me, perform the experiment: It’s the relationship to money that keeps us from humanity. It’s not the money itself. Money by itself has no power over us. It’s when we give it power we are in trouble. We cannot serve both humanity and money.

Works fine for me.

I'm headed for the beach, if you want to come along ... that's fine, you can even bring your invisible friend as long as you make damned sure that he, she or it does not get in the way.

I don't understand you. What invisible friend?

 

[The Neo Nerd]

The so called Mother Theresa certainly thought it did.

To the point where she allowed people to suffer when their suffering could have been very easily eased. Then justified it by saying that it bought them closer to god.

That being said in a magnificent case of hypocrisy when she herself was suffering she got was flown all around the world to get the best medical treatment possible.