Do (violent) video games contribute to (gun) violence?

[an anarchist]

Below is a disturbing video of a video game mission from Call of Duty.

Spoiler: Mass shooter simulator

The mission objective is literally shoot up all the civilians in an airport. And I played this as a kid.

Whenever the question of if video games contribute to a culture of violence is brought up, all of the gamers simultaneously shout down the question.

The Uvalde parents seem to think there is a connection. They are suing the makers of Call of Duty over their perceived connection to inspiring the shooting.

Uvalde families sue Meta and Call of Duty maker on second anniversary of school attack

The families of a group of victims of the Uvalde school shooting have announced new lawsuits against Instagram parent company Meta Platforms, the maker of the video game Call of Duty and the gun company that made the assault rifle used in the shooting.

apnews.com

I wanted to ask your thoughts on the question. I think violent video games obviously desensitize people to overt violence. In games like Grand Theft Auto you can go on mass shooting sprees freely. It is made to be fun.

I think violent video games negatively contribute to a culture of violence.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Below is a disturbing video of a video game mission from Call of Duty.

Spoiler: Mass shooter simulator

The mission objective is literally shoot up all the civilians in an airport. And I played this as a kid.

Whenever the question of if video games contribute to a culture of violence is brought up, all of the gamers simultaneously shout down the question.

The Uvalde parents seem to think there is a connection. They are suing the makers of Call of Duty over their perceived connection to inspiring the shooting.

Uvalde families sue Meta and Call of Duty maker on second anniversary of school attack

The families of a group of victims of the Uvalde school shooting have announced new lawsuits against Instagram parent company Meta Platforms, the maker of the video game Call of Duty and the gun company that made the assault rifle used in the shooting.

apnews.com

I wanted to ask your thoughts on the question. I think violent video games obviously desensitize people to overt violence. In games like Grand Theft Auto you can go on mass shooting sprees freely. It is made to be fun.

I think violent video games negatively contribute to a culture of violence.

Not me. Games make for a perfect punching bag and releasing pent up steam.

 

[an anarchist]

Not me. Games make for a perfect punching bag and releasing pent up steam.

That’s what a lot of gamers say! But then they extrapolate their own experience and assume video games cannot inspire violence. Gamers are often heavily offended at the notion.

I am a geek and follow a lot of video game people and news sources, so I know.

 

[Twilight Hue]

That’s what a lot of gamers say! But then they extrapolate their own experience and assume video games cannot inspire violence. Gamers are often heavily offended at the notion.

I am a geek and follow a lot of video game people and news sources, so I know.

I've been gaming since pong was invented.

 

[an anarchist]

I've been gaming since pong was invented.

Ok, that still doesn’t address the point in my reply.

 

[an anarchist]

I've been gaming since pong was invented.

What the newest video game you have played, old man?

They are much more violent than pong. Visceral, overt, and gleefully violent.

 

[Quintessence]

It depends a bit on what is meant by "culture of violence."

In the softer sense, any and all storytelling or media is by definition part culture. Any dramatic storytelling contributes to a "culture of drama," any comedic storytelling contributes to a "culture of comedy" and so and and so forth. Specific cultures may favor certain themes in storytelling more than others, both in general and as part of subcultures and movements that change throughout its history. I'm sure we can all identify the rise and fall of particular types of stories.

In the harder sense, the way in which storytelling influences human practices and behaviors is complex and there's often a bit of a seed-and-tree problem with it. Are these stories told in response to these practices happening already, or do the practices happen in response to the stories told? One of the teachings of Druidry is the importance of and responsibility of being a storyteller. Anything can be a current of inspiration and inspire someone to action. It is not a power to be underestimated or dismissed.

Personally, I find the over-reliance on violence as a gameplay mechanism in video games to be more uninspired and blasé than anything else. It is so uncreative and so overdone and so lazy. But it gets done a lot because it is easier to design simplistic hack-and-slash games than come up with compelling stories, well-developed characters, truly detailed worlds, multiple ways of approaching issues, puzzles, etc. For anyone who hasn't played Prey - play Prey (the new one, not the old one). It's not a nonviolent game, but it is a stellar example of what game design looks like when you aren't lazy and only let the player solve every encounter with blowing enemies up.

 

[Jimmy]

No. Suicidal tendencies and hatred is the number one cause of school shootings.
Money and hatred is number one for gang shootings.

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't know.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I think humans, especially males, naturally enjoy violence to some extent. Cultures tend to curb those likings to more civilied expressions like combat and contact sports and other forms of violent entertainment. Humans like suspense and thrills, too. Video games are just an expression of this and I don't see the point of singling them out. I've read disturbingly violent books that bothered me so much I had to put them down for a bit. It's the same with movies and even music, with the amount of violence in them.

I think video games are unfairly singled out as a medium for this criticism. R-rated movies tend to have more mature concent than video games are allowed to (if they want a console release, anyway). Even the example you use, the "No Russian" mission from Call of Duty: Modern Warfare, you don't have to fire your gun in it. It's totally up to the player if you want to shoot. I've played that game. It's supposed to be something that makes you think about ethics and morality.

The main issue is when people lose the ability to distinguish fantasy from reality. But that's a problem with media in general. Taxi Driver isn't a video game, but that didn't stop John Hickley Jr from becoming obsessed with Jodi Foster's character in that movie and attempt to kill Reagan to impress her. That's the real issue here. Fictional violence is very different from real violence, and some people aren't able to tell the difference much. But I don't think that is the root of the problem there when such types commit violent crime, although it definitely helps make it happen. You have to have the urge to actually harm others first.

 

[Alien826]

I played that Call of Duty game. The game allowed the player to skip that scene, as it was obviously offensive to many. For the record, the story was that you (the player) were an undercover agent who had infiltrated a terrorist gang and were expected to join in a mass shooting of innocent people at an airport. You choice was morally difficult. Join in the shooting (which was going to happen anyway) and maintain your cover, refuse to join in and maybe get killed by the terrorists, or try to protect the civilians and almost certainly get killed. The last two choices would compromise your mission and any good you might do later. I chose to walk through the airport without shooting anyone or attacking the terrorists. As I remember, even if you kill the passengers the terrorists decide you are a traitor and kill you.

So what to make of it? It presented a very difficult moral dilemma and has value as such, I think. Did some players just enjoy killing innocents? I don't know, but probably. Were people influenced to reproduce the violence in real life? I have no idea. I can only answer for myself. I abhor violence in real life but enjoy violent video games. I have no trouble separating the two.

Edit: I wrote this before reading @Saint Frankenstein's post.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Edit: I wrote this before reading @Saint Frankenstein's post

No worries!

 

[an anarchist]

Even the example you use, the "No Russian" mission from Call of Duty: Modern Warfare, you don't have to fire your gun in it. It's totally up to the player if you want to shoot. I've played that game. It's supposed to be something that makes you think about ethics and morality.

So what to make of it? It presented a very difficult moral dilemma and has value as such, I think. Did some players just enjoy killing innocents? I don't know, but probably. Were people influenced to reproduce the violence in real life? I have no idea. I can only answer for myself. I abhor violence in real life but enjoy violent video games. I have no trouble separating the two.

I remember when the mission came out as a kid, many kids loved it because you got to shoot up innocents. There was sometimes comments from kids saying they wanted to do that in real life. God I can’t report them now I was only a kid too but I remember kids idolizing and feeling inspired by video game scenes like this.

Video games are unique from other forms of media as it gives the consumer the illusion of being an active participant in the universe. They are interacting, not merely watching or reading.

A lot of people might not have trouble separating the two, but I know anecdotally that some people feel inspired by such scenes. I don’t know what ever became of those kids who would make those comments, but I remember feeling uneasy when they would say stuff like that.

Some People play GTA just to shoot civilians. Strange way to vent. A concerning way to vent.

The main issue is when people lose the ability to distinguish fantasy from reality. But that's a problem with media in general.

Like I said above, I feel like video games are unique enough to present unique problems.

 

[an anarchist]

I guess most people don’t get inspired to violence after a violent video game session. This is true

 

[an anarchist]

But I still think the general desensitization towards violence in media in general is a problem. With people, particularly children, desensitized to violence, it is no wonder our society is violent. We can say the violent media is merely a reflection of the existing violence, but I do think it feeds into the problem. Video games is prime and glaring example of violent media though.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I remember when the mission came out as a kid, many kids loved it because you got to shoot up innocents. There was sometimes comments from kids saying they wanted to do that in real life. God I can’t report them now I was only a kid too but I remember kids idolizing and feeling inspired by video game scenes like this.

Video games are unique from other forms of media as it gives the consumer the illusion of being an active participant in the universe. They are interacting, not merely watching or reading.

A lot of people might not have trouble separating the two, but I know anecdotally that some people feel inspired by such scenes. I don’t know what ever became of those kids who would make those comments, but I remember feeling uneasy when they would say stuff like that.

Some People play GTA just to shoot civilians. Strange way to vent. A concerning way to vent.

Like I said above, I feel like video games are unique enough to present unique problems.

The truth is that most people have violent impulses that are impolite to mention in public. We are animals, after all. It's up to our level of civility, social trust, and self-control to keep such things in their place. For example, it's been known for a while that rape fantasies among women are fairly common, occuring in up to 2/3rds of women in most research. So it's not surprising that people mistreat NPCs for fun. (I enjoy insulting them, getting into random fist fights and driving wrecklessly to run people over when it comes to GTA 5. A friend liked to hijack buses and drive them into the water to kill everyone on onboard. Different strokes and all.)

As for the comments you've heard, it's not uncommon for young people to make weird, off-putting comments, especially depending on interests and what kind of people you hang out with. Maybe some of them were a bit disturbed. There's always oddballs, trolls and people with sketchy circumstances and personalities. I'm not trying to be dismissive, some people are really troubled. But I don't think the video games are what cause it. It's usually something going on irl.

I want to add that you're not a passive participant while reading as you are having to visualize everything for yourself. Words are more subjective than an image.

 

[LuisDantas]

In all honesty, I never quite followed the claim that videogames make people violent.

There is a videogame about four people tied by their ankles by a single, sole length of rope or chain (I don't recall which) and doing physically impossible maneuvers and climbing while under that severe drawback. It involves falling from impressive heights and simply starting again immediately after.

There is a another where the main characters may as well be invisible as long as there is high grass for them to hide into, and where slings are only necessary when there are enough stones magically available right at hand.

People don't lose track of how unusual those circunstances are in real life.

Sure, shooting people in a videogame is not necessarily all that compartimentalized. But I have seen so much casual glorification of killing outside of commercial fiction that I can't help but feel that this is a weird thing to blame.

Military drones, the political prestige of the military-industrial complex, the financial privileges of military forces in general and the way history is usually told by glossing over the killing and glorifying the killers - I would say that every single one of those factors is a much bigger contributor to the desensitization that does, in fact, exist.

Heck, I don't even have to point out USA-specific factors such as the mystique of odd-yet-mainstream readings of the Second Ammendment and the existence of an influential NRA and gun culture more generally.

Videogames are a conveniently unpersonal target for criticism, I suppose. But it is just odd all the same.

 

[Quintessence]

In all honesty, I never quite followed the claim that videogames make people violent.

There is research that backs it, just not in the way that is usually discussed because folks like to go to extremes in talking about these things. There's obviously no research evidence that after watching violent media, a human immediately goes out and commits violent acts - you can't do that sort of thing in a research study. But there have been studies done where different groups of children were exposed to different types of media prior to playtime and then observations were made about their behavior during play time. Aggressive behavior - shouting and hitting and throwing for example - increase in the groups exposed to violent media relative to control groups. That's documented.

None of which should be surprising. Humans learn based on what they experience in their environment, with particular attention paid to how other humans behave. When trying to find the old study I learned about years ago discussed above, there's actually been more since then to the point this is backed by cross-cultural research:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0146167217703064?journalCode=pspc

Cultural generality versus specificity of media violence effects on aggression was examined in seven countries (Australia, China, Croatia, Germany, Japan, Romania, the United States). Participants reported aggressive behaviors, media use habits, and several other known risk and protective factors for aggression. Across nations, exposure to violent screen media was positively associated with aggression. This effect was partially mediated by aggressive cognitions and empathy. The media violence effect on aggression remained significant even after statistically controlling a number of relevant risk and protective factors (e.g., abusive parenting, peer delinquency), and was similar in magnitude to effects of other risk factors. In support of the cumulative risk model, joint effects of different risk factors on aggressive behavior in each culture were larger than effects of any individual risk factor.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That’s what a lot of gamers say! But then they extrapolate their own experience and assume video games cannot inspire violence. Gamers are often heavily offended at the notion.

I am a geek and follow a lot of video game people and news sources, so I know.

If the net effect of violent video games were to increase actual violence, we should see this in the data: violence trending upward, uncorrelated with other factors but correlated with the popularity of these games.

Do we see this? I haven't seen any source that makes a good argument that we do.

 

[LuisDantas]

There is research that backs it, just not in the way that is usually discussed because folks like to go to extremes in talking about these things. There's obviously no research evidence that after watching violent media, a human immediately goes out and commits violent acts - you can't do that sort of thing in a research study. But there have been studies done where different groups of children were exposed to different types of media prior to playtime and then observations were made about their behavior during play time. Aggressive behavior - shouting and hitting and throwing for example - increase in the groups exposed to violent media relative to control groups. That's documented.

None of which should be surprising. Humans learn based on what they experience in their environment, with particular attention paid to how other humans behave. When trying to find the old study I learned about years ago discussed above, there's actually been more since then to the point this is backed by cross-cultural research:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0146167217703064?journalCode=pspc

There is probably something to it, I suppose. My instincts say otherwise, but what do I know?

Still, it I can't quite bring myself to consider First Person Shooters a significant fact in cultures that glorify the actual killing of real people as a matter of pride.

That saying about looking for a bill under the lamppost comes to mind.

Streetlight effect - Wikipedia

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