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Do we play a roll in our Salvation?
- Thread starter emiliano
- Start date
Falvlun,
King David found his answer in:
You are right and that is what the Bible teaches, God desires that that we all come to Him, to the kingdom to come, I believe that He does this through the creation (the things made) in spite of rejections He calls all and does it all throughout our earthly passage but not all heed the calling, so Salvation need an action on our part (receive Him) therefore we do play a role in our Salvation. He is a Merciful God and we love Him for this.
For starter and as I said above the creation, the things made then reason and the question that we all ask ourselves, there must be cause for all this awesome environment in which I live, what purpose does it have? Who made all this? How is He?
Yes with out a doubt, ask your self the questions, look around and above you.
King David found his answer in:
Psa 8:3
When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, The moon and the stars, which You have ordained,
When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, The moon and the stars, which You have ordained,
Psa 8:4
What is man that You are mindful of him, And the son of man that You visit him?
Psa 8:9
O LORD, our Lord, How excellent [is] Your name in all the earth!
What is man that You are mindful of him, And the son of man that You visit him?
Psa 8:9
O LORD, our Lord, How excellent [is] Your name in all the earth!
Right again but He is merciful to all, that is the reason for all to have Free Will.
DavyCrocket2003
Well-Known Member
Well, I guess you're between a rock and a hard place (or a star and a lake of fire and brimstoneWay to hot for me....the sun..
). Actually, that is exactly the idea. I think the sun is one of the most powerful witnesses of Christ that there are. Jesus said he is the light and the life of the world. If we follow spiritual light, it will eventually lead us to the Son, who is the source of light."That which is of God is light; and he that receiveth light; and continueth in God, receiveth more light, and that light groweth brighter and brighter until the perfect day."
But we are in an interactive environment; we are affected by internal as well as external forces that shape our decisions. How successful have you been in your endeavors to shape your destiny?
Oh yes there are certainly external and internal forces which influence our destinies. But whether or not we accept them and how we go about fullfilling them is entirely up to us. As for how successful I have been in shaping my own destiny well it depends on which destiny you are speaking of(as I believe we can have many). Since this thread is about the after life and salvation I'll assume you are speaking of my destiny in those terms, like where I'll end up and what not. For that question I won't know the answer until I die. But then neither will anyone else.
keithnurse
Active Member
When Christians ask "are you saved?" they usually mean "do you know if you are going to heaven after you die?". Since I have no clue about what happens after we die I stick to salvation in this life. The word "salvation" is related to "salve" as in healing. There are different images of salvation in the bible that relate to this life not just to what happens after death: 1. Salvation as deliverance from slavery or other bondage (Exodus) 2. Salvation as healing of illness,3. Salvation as return from exile,4.Sight to the blind, 5 Being in Christ. For more on this read Marcus Borgs book "The Heart of Christianity". In this sense we do play a role in our salvation.
Keithnurse.
Thanks for your interesting reply. To me as a Christian (I am considered a fundamentalist Christian by some) Salvation is two folds; 1) immediate (this side of life) this is a temporal salvation (it has and end) and 2) An eternal Salvation (it has no end) and I rather have both.
Thanks for your interesting reply. To me as a Christian (I am considered a fundamentalist Christian by some) Salvation is two folds; 1) immediate (this side of life) this is a temporal salvation (it has and end) and 2) An eternal Salvation (it has no end) and I rather have both.
This is what marks the difference between the OT and the NT, in the New Testament both is addressed, both are related to the same theme though. The Moral Law and what it saves from is shame and condemnation and we are told How to prevent this, In the OT by Moses Torah and in the NT by what Jesus taught. If we turn our back on Gods Moral Law He will turn away from us and we are Lost. So in both cases we must do something for our Salvation to keep Gods Laws
But you do know your destiny, don't you? You will die there is no other destiny in which would not involve not dying. Do you have a plan?
keithnurse
Active Member
We know we will all die at some point. What we don't know is what, if anything, happens after that. People have beliefs about what happens to us after we die but that is not knowledge, just belief. I am guessing that if there is a continuation of our lives after our bodies die we will all be very surprised at what form it takes no matter what our current beliefs are. When people say to me "believe what I tell you to believe or you'll go straight to hell when you die" I say "what if a different group has the truth and you don't? then you'll be going to hell too". If there is a heaven and it's full of people like John Hagee and Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson I'd just as soon not go there.
I would consider dying to be my fate rather than my destiny as it is something we cannot escape, something that will happen regardless. I see destiny as something we in a large part control. Depending on the destiny we may or may not "choose" it, but we always have a choice as to whether or not we try to fulfill it and how we go about doing that, and there are consequences one way or the other. As for my "plan" I plan to live this life as fully as I am able, as well as I am able. My plan is to reach death and look back with very few to no regrets. As for after death I have no plan, but then it's difficult to formulate a plan when you don't even know what you are planing for.
Well this is a particular kind of knowledge (personal), the believer has not doubts that there is after life and what it would be like, an eternal bliss, IMO when a beliefs reaches this state, it is knowledge. Ask a believer if He/she knows God and you will see, I believe that the problems arise when the believer wants other to understand the certainty of his beliefs with view to conversion.
OmarKhayyam
Well-Known Member
". . .IMO when a beliefs reaches this state, it is knowledge. Ask a believer if He/she knows God and you will see. . ."
This is absurd on its face.
This is saying if you believe something hard enough it becomes true. So if I really REALLY R-E-A-L-L-Y believe there is an extra 10G's in my account it will be there.
Just nonsense. Pure self delusion. Not worthy of a intelligent being.
This is absurd on its face.
This is saying if you believe something hard enough it becomes true. So if I really REALLY R-E-A-L-L-Y believe there is an extra 10G's in my account it will be there.
Just nonsense. Pure self delusion. Not worthy of a intelligent being.
I am glad that you could join in. What happen to your decision to not correspond with me?
No that I think much of your opinion though, now what this is about is that the believer that have no doubts of his beliefs, that is he has absolute certainty of what he believe he has knowledge of it, and really I can assure you that they dont give a hoot for your opinion.
keithnurse
Active Member
Omars point is valid. No matter how strongly you believe something, if it is false, it remains false. A belief is not knowledge just because you strongly believe it. No matter how strongly and fervently I believe the moon is made of green cheese, that is not knowledge, it's just an opinion, a wrong opinion.
TheKnight
Guardian of Life
What is there to be saved from?
What you have to consider is that every believer search and search till there is no doubt in His/her mind that there is a God and an after life, when the process is finalized that person has knowledge, a spiritual knowledge and we believe that the ability to know spiritual truth (wisdom) is given to some, it is a gift from God. And you are right his point is valid to for those of his persuasion, is not for them to know they are reprobates we all are till we ask for the gift. Thank for your replay, I didnt understand what the point was, actually I thought that his head wear was too tight.
Thanks for the Link, I corresponded with a reformed Jew in another forum so I new of the seven laws of Moses, very interesting Moses was a good teacher and wise leader. I take it that your answer is yes we do play a roll in our Salvation from the misguidance of the world in which we live, that I understand bring a separation from Him and His divine Law. What are the consequence of rejecting G-D Laws?
keithnurse
Active Member
This way of reasoning can work for any belief system. If I assert that unicorns really literally exist I could say I have searched and searched until there is no doubt in my mind that unicorns exist and so I have reached the stage where I KNOW unicorns exist and if any says they don't believe it I just say to them "you have a reprobate mind and have not been given the gift to perceive that unicorns exist". And if anyone still disputes me I'll say "your belief is true for you but it is not for me". That is a neat system you go there, EmilianoWhat you have to consider is that every believer search and search till there is no doubt in His/her mind that there is a God and an after life, when the process is finalized that person has knowledge, a spiritual knowledge and we believe that the ability to know spiritual truth (wisdom) is given to some, it is a gift from God. And you are right his point is valid to for those of his persuasion, is not for them to know they are reprobates we all are till we ask for the gift. Thank for your replay, I didnt understand what the point was, actually I thought that his head wear was too tight.