Do We Really Need This Kind of Bigotry?

[metis]

Don't play that card, because "you people" isn't only referring to some Jewish posters in this thread.

And what about the non-Jewish posters who haven't agreed with you? separate category?

 

[xkatz]

Of course reform has moral goals. I have been trying to tell you, but you do not listen. Reform Jews uphold the ethical Halacha. These are Jewish laws.

Anyone can be minimally ethical though- it's very easy to say it's wrong to kill, steal, etc. However, it takes real effort to try daven on a daily basis, or follow even a minimal form of kashrut. Doing things like that in conjunction w/ ethical rules are more meaningful and give Jews a sense of stronger sense of faith and community than just following ethics. Judaism doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing endeavor like American reform and Haredi Jews make it out to be. What good is Judaism w/o any practical substance left whatsoever?

 

[metis]

You need to ask some of your fellow Jews on here that are still proclaiming her to be a Jew, albeit an "apostate" Jew who is "cut off" from her people. I'm not the one saying that.

So, what you're essentially saying that others cannot have a different viewpoint than yours. Now, the actions of the group was very wrong, imo, because of their actions (harassment) against the couple, as I mentioned in the OP.

 

[xkatz]

@xkatz
I can assure you that Reform Judaism outside of the US is different from the one in the US.

That's good to hear

 

[metis]

Go ahead and ignore the horrible things that have been said and continue to be said about Muslims, Palestinians, gays, women, etc. on here. Some of it is coming from your own tribesmen. I don't see you calling any of them out. Yet you want to act like you're special. You're not. Get over yourself. And don't try to play the minority card with me, either. I'm a member of multiple minorities. You're a Jew who lives in Chicago, and you're probably a white Jew, too. You're not persecuted so quit with the lame attempt at playing the Oppression Olympics.

And you played that same "card" in reference to yourself a couple of days ago, so tell us exactly how that's not being hypocritical? And to imply that "white Jew" means that one cannot be persecuted here is nothing short of complete nonsense. I could tell you of some things that happened to this "white Jew" personally, but I doubt very much you really care.

 

[metis]

Well Levite, I have to say we have to disagree to disagree. Because foremost regardless of my religion (I do have one) or race and ethnicity (I have several of those) or creed (I understand many of those), what I value above all else is the greater and shared humanity of us all, and I value the individual right to life and self determination of those who share my humanity. Good luck with your tribalism because our greater humanity is much more important to me.

It's completely disingenuous of you to put the above in either/or terms. Just because a group may have some of its own rules doesn't mean that they don't value the rights and well-beings of others.

 

[metis]

Native Americans generally don't subscribe to the doctrine of anti-miscegenation or shun people who marry outside their tribe.

As an anthropologist, I categorically say that you're wrong. Bands had arrangements with only certain other bands for intermarriage, which was necessary since most of them were small (generally speaking, most hunting-and-gathering Amerindian bands were under 100 people). To marry someone outside of these friendly bands was categorically forbidden to the point of maybe they being considered an enemy.

 

[metis]

Jews in general? Yes. But Israel has a big problem with right-wing wackjobs.

Ever been to a country called the "United States of America"?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

It's completely disingenuous of you to put the above in either/or terms. Just because a group may have some of its own rules doesn't mean that they don't value the rights and well-beings of others.

I am sorry but preferring and valuing the separateness of a certain group over the whole of humanity is not my thing, it can lead to a certain mentality that I find dangerous such as Us vs. Them, Insider vs Outsider and stuff like that.

But if tribalism is your thing, go knock your socks just try not to murder too many people.

 

[Poeticus]

A Formal Announcement to the Mods & Admins:

A big and hearted thank you to you all ! Thank you ! :bow:

 

[Revoltingest]

This separatism....the us-v-them mentality ultimately drives the worst violence.
One's own side is the noble victim. The other is the threat without humanity.
This makes it easier to believe the only solution is to kill, kill, & kill.
No compromise with them.
All signs will point to this, every noticed spoken or written word.
Violent conflict is inevitable.

 

[LuisDantas]

I am sorry but preferring and valuing the separateness of a certain group over the whole of humanity is not my thing, it can lead to a certain mentality that I find dangerous such as Us vs. Them, Insider vs Outsider and stuff like that.

But if tribalism is your thing, go knock your socks just try not to murder too many people.

You sure are found of extremes. At times I wonder how capable you are of perceiving things except as extremes.

 

[LuisDantas]

A Formal Announcement to the Mods & Admins:

A big and hearted thank you to you all ! Thank you ! :bow:

You're welcome. Gotta have priorities, you know.

 

[Levite]

I am sorry but preferring and valuing the separateness of a certain group over the whole of humanity is not my thing, it can lead to a certain mentality that I find dangerous such as Us vs. Them, Insider vs Outsider and stuff like that.

But if tribalism is your thing, go knock your socks just try not to murder too many people.

You are presenting a false dichotomy. In fact, valuing the uniqueness of different cultures, tolerating them, and preserving them is to value the whole of humanity. Our cultures are our greatest creations, the foundations and building blocks for all of the art, music, literature, philosophy, spirituality, and so forth that humanity produces.

 

[Revoltingest]

A Formal Announcement to the Mods & Admins:
A big and hearted thank you to you all ! Thank you ! :bow:

Sucking up to them won't work.
It never got me any kind of discount on the monthly dues.
In fact, Quagmire just raised mine by 15%!

 

[CynthiaCypher]

You are presenting a false dichotomy. In fact, valuing the uniqueness of different cultures, tolerating them, and preserving them is to value the whole of humanity. Our cultures are our greatest creations, the foundations and building blocks for all of the art, music, literature, philosophy, spirituality, and so forth that humanity produces.

Valuing culture is fine but valuing separateness isn't all that dandy to me.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Sucking up to them won't work.
It never got me any kind of discount on the monthly dues.
In fact, Quagmire just raised mine by 15%!

They are making you pay dues?

 

[LuisDantas]

This separatism....the us-v-them mentality ultimately drives the worst violence.
One's own side is the noble victim. The other is the threat without humanity.
This makes it easier to believe the only solution is to kill, kill, & kill.
No compromise with them.
All signs will point to this, every noticed spoken or written word.
Violent conflict is inevitable.

That is indeed a very serious and real problem.

On the other hand, as a libertatian I am sure that you realize that people need a modicum of personal freedom, and that can only be achieved by standing one's ground and making a point of clearly stating what we expect from each other and making our disagreements and motivations clear when necessary.

All too often people mistake silence for respect. Alas, the correlation is far more one of opposition than one of affinity.

Seeking compromise and mutual understanding is in fact a dire need, generally speaking. But it is often very much a challenge as well.

 

[Buttercup]

A Formal Announcement to the Mods & Admins:

A big and hearted thank you to you all ! Thank you ! :bow:

Dang. I thought this was a new thread started this morning.

 

[LuisDantas]

Valuing culture is fine but valuing separateness isn't all that dandy to me.

So you feel to share the same values and priorities as mostly everyone else?

That is not something readily apparent in casual forum conversation with you.